That’s because I’m really lazy. Also I figured one of youse guys would come along to correct me. 'Sides, my point including the former Mr. Mary Jane Watson was to observe that there’s a lot of variance.
Also note that some of the characters you name are very limited, though perhaps tops in their field. Reed Richards has said explictly that Otto Octavious knows more about treating radiation poisoning than he does, but I’d not put Otto on the same level as RR, VvD, and TS. I’m not aware that Banner’s done much outside of weapons. And why in the name of Hera daughter of Rhea did you include the Red Skull?
In the Star Wars extended universe, there frequently arose the issue of “witches” who were simply well versed in the ways of the Force but claimed they were using magic. In the same way, we could state that sorcery is part of the Force and that the Force is a part of sorcery. If Vader and Doom were on the same level playing field in terms of “mythical powers,” Doom would have the definitive edge, having the advantage of technology on his side.
I’m aware of that. They were not considered part of the regular MU, like the skits. Since they were made for kids I don’t think Spider-Man beating on Doom in them counts in the theme of this thread.
Its not like Spidey was going to lose a fight with Doom to teach children how to spell in a magazine made for children. So other than that, I don’t htink Spidey has EVER beaten Doom. Thats like having Daredevil beat Thanos. It just doesn’t fit with the characters.
(Spider-Man really shouldn’t be fighting guys like Doom anyway…at least not oustside of magazines or skits made for children IMHO)
Before that, there were hints that Doom was into magic (hell, his origin talked about forbidden rituals or similar) but Astonishing Tales #8 (with absolutely beautiful Gene Colan art) featured the whole revised backstory with Cynthia Von Doom a gypsy-witch into demonology, set up the whole “Mephisto” thing, etc
No, Reed’s smarter than Doom. Unquestionably. Otherwise, it fouls up Doom’s entire character and motivation. If Doom were actually more intelligent than Reed, Doom would have won, because Doom DOES have superior power. But Doom merely believes himself the superior intellect, then consistently loses. He’s the Salieri to Reed’s Mozart.
Any stinking mortal who does not believe that Doom would destroy Darth Vader like the LA Lakers would demolish a high school team should be immediately converted into a suppository for a chthonic being.
Doom, and he’d probably find a way to steal Vader’s Midichlorians and then make them increase ten-thousand fold in his own body about half-way through the battle. I suppose Vader could win by, I dunno, using the force to surreptitiously erase the regulator piece on the schematic for his new equipment causing it to eat the user when turned on, but I think Doom would notice the error and correct it.
It’s not even fair, really. For Doom you’d have to move up about six tiers to the “I could destroy a solar system by blinking” level… which pretty much limits you to other comic books (and Manga/Anime, in fact, “Majin Vegeta” or “Kid Buu” were my first thoughts of a roughly even match up there).
Ben and mind control is kind of inconsistent. He’s easy to deceive, but he has amazing willpower. You could Jedi Mind Trick him into thinking you were not there, but not into harming someone he cares about. We are talking about the guy who’s “too dumb and too ugly to die” here. And whose only real fear is losing Alicia (as we know from an issue of Man-Thing, where Ben wanders the swamp in a daze, but only triggers the “whatever knows fear, burns at the touch of the MAN-THING” power when he fever-dreams he might lose Alicia).
I can think of any number of people who would make mincemeat of Doom who don’t have even Willy Lumpkin ear-wiggling levels of power. All it takes is someone cunning enough to take advantage of Doom’s galaxy-sized Achilles heel, his arrogance, and beat him by turning his own power against him. A short list of people who’d mop the floor with Doom:
The Doctor
Batman
Parker Lewis
Ozymandias
The Shadow
Hercule Poirot
Nero Wolfe
Danny Ocean
Keyser Soze
You do realize that Ben is only dumb by comparison to Reed. He does have a college degree, and was an air force test pilot. Further, he roomed with Reed and they became good friends. Which tends to imply a certain amount of meeting of the minds. Just because he’s got this ‘aw shucks’ kind of attitude doesn’t mean he’s stupid. He just doesn’t think the same way Reed does. He’s probably somewhere in the IQ 140-160 range, if I had to guess. He’s really good at figuring things out.
(Think of it this way: He’s at least as smart as any of the astronauts. Possibly smarter: he can fly the weird stuff Reed thinks up better than Reed can.)
True, and in early issues of Fantastic Four Ben did speak in the “Aw shucks/I ain’t doin’ that/Its Clobberin’ Time” manner. He had a very formal manner of speech which suggests that he is very intelligent.
I would go as far as to say that Ben probably has a doctorate himself, or at least a masters degree. Air Force Pilots, especially test pilots are highly educated. Did they ever say what rank Ben held in the Air Force? (I always thought he was a marine test pilot, but hey, I have no cite or reason to say which branch he was in). He must have been an officer just to be a pilot and officers are required to have a degree. (at least it is that way in the army)
As of Captain Savage and his Leatherneck Raiders #7 (Mid-WWII), Ben was a Lt, USAF.
Post-war, he was a NASA astronaut.
I’d guess he was a Captain by that point, but I can’t find any specific reference at all.
Slight hijack, but Stark has made it his life’s work to put the best armor plate he can on a powered exoskeleton bristling with futuristic weaponry; Pym, by comparison, spent maybe three days in his basement slapping together a robot that beat the crap out of Iron Man with one hand figuratively behind its back – by which I mean its literal other hand was in fact beating the crap out of Thor right about then. So, what happens if Pym’s best engineering project goes up against Stark’s best engineering project? We’ve seen the results, and it wasn’t pretty.
In any event, Doom’s ego may get the better of him when he’s squaring off against one superhero or another – but IMHO (a) that’s Vader’s only shot, and (b) it’s not going to be in play for the OP’s scenario: if all the Doom-bots are already down, Doom is going to take this guy off life support in a hurry.
Even though the post you responded to was written in support of Pym, I can’t entirely agree. Ultron only began as Pym’s tech; he (it?) has done a lot of upgrades. What Pym did was accidentally create a sentient being.
But since the “engrams” (snerk) upon which Ultron is based are Pym’s, Janet’s ex* still gets partial credit for everything he’s done.
*Yes, ex. Jan is not dead, damn it! She’s too prettyto die. (sob)
Fair point, but I have to submit that Batman does not count because he probably has a plan ready to be executed at any moment that would result in an instantaneous solar system erasing.
