If scientists say that matter is the cause and origin of life, then let us ask them to bring back to life just one dead man, one great man like Professor Einstein. Let them inject some chemicals so that just one dead man may come back to life and work again. But this they cannot do.
insert obscure joke about old Mazda brand lightbulbs and Zoroastrianism
Never mind me…
all praise the bright N shiny glow worm.
Prabhupada: Do it. Again foolishness. These rascals… (laughs) Then, if you can create life, then where is the question of dead body? You create again. Give life again. If you are so competent that you can give life, combination, then this dead body is there. You bring chemicals and inject.
Pusta Krsna: The same chemicals are there, too. The same chemicals, living body, dead body–five minutes before, five after–is the same chemicals. But they can’t explain why there is such a drastic difference.
Prabhupada: What is that same chemical?
Pusta Krsna: In the living body, two minutes before death and two minutes after…
Prabhupada: So what is that? Name that, what is that chemical. Then bring it.
Pusta Krsna: Let him try and make life. Not possible.
Prabhupada: If you know the chemical, then you bring it. Chemical is available. Why this is dead? What they will answer? What this chemical is wanting, that it is dead?
Brahmananda: Well, we may not know…
Prabhupada: Then, you rascal, why you are talking? You do not know. (laughter)
Brahmananda: But, then, neither do you know.
Prabhupada: Huh? No…
Brahmananda: You can say soul, but you don’t…
Prabhupada: No. But you cannot answer my question; therefore you are more rascal than me. You cannot answer. Your… You are…
Harikesa: You have the position. He’s in a position. He cannot answer.
Prabhupada: Yes. You say that chemical is missing. I say what is that chemical?
Pusta Krsna: No, but the chemical is not missing.
Prabhupada: Then?
Pusta Krsna: The same chemical is there. Two minutes before death and two minutes after death, the body chemistry has not changed so much.
Prabhupada: No. What is that missing that it is dead?
Pusta Krsna: They can’t answer.
Prabhupada: Therefore they are fool. You cannot answer.
Pusta Krsna: Because it’s not a question of chemical. Actually they don’t know what life is.
Prabhupada: Therefore they are foolish. Therefore he has to take knowledge from Krsna: dehino 'smin yatha… “Within this body there is soul.”
Brahmananda: You say there’s a soul, but we’ve never seen a soul. It may be your imagination.
Prabhupada: You may not see. You have not seen your forefather. That does not mean… This is all bad argument. Why do you believe? Your eyes are so imperfect; still, you say, “I did not see. I want to see.” What is the value of your eyes? You see the sun globe–a small disc. But is it so? Then how do you know that it is so big?
Pusta Krsna: By hearing.
Prabhupada: By hearing. That is important, not by seeing. Therefore sruti, Veda, is important, not your eyes.
Harikesa: When people die, though, there is usually some cause. Like they have a heart attack or they get hit by a car or some disease. So that death is caused by the disease…
Prabhupada: That is not the cause. That is the effect. You foolish, do not know. You are taking it, cause.
Harikesa: Well, when you get hit by a car, that’s a cause.
Prabhupada: Just like one man becomes insolvent, loses everything. So he said that “I had no money. Therefore I become insolvent.” But that is not the fact. He could not manage; therefore there was scarcity of money and he became failure. So that is effect. On account of his bad management, he came to a position that he could not pay to his creditor, and his business is failure. So that insolvency is not the cause. It is the effect.
Pusta Krsna: Bhisma was able to remain in his body even on a bed of arrows.
Prabhupada: So when you are going to die, these are the… On account of imminent death, these are the effects.
Harikesa: But that means that the body breaks down.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Harikesa: The body breaks down.
Prabhupada: At a certain period it will break.
Harikesa: So that is the cause, the body breaking down.
Prabhupada: Yes. So you say heart failure is the cause. No. The body is breaking; therefore heart failure.
Harikesa: So death means the body breaks.
Prabhupada: No, no. First of all your answer… You say the heart failure is the cause. The man is dying. I say that because the man is dying, the heart is failure. So heart failure is not the cause. It is the effect.
Harikesa: That’s very difficult…
Pusta Krsna: Because his karma in that body is running out, he has to leave.
Brahmananda: But if I can get some machine that will make the heart keep on beating, then the man won’t die.
Prabhupada: No. That you are failure. You have got so many machines. You go on, keeping the heart going on. That is not possible.
Harikesa: Finally they just pull out the plug. The doctor kicks the plug one day.
Prabhupada: (laughs) Yes.
Brahmananda: At the present moment, I was reading, there is one girl in America, New Jersey, teenage girl. And for some unknown reason she went to sleep one night, and in the morning she did not wake up. So they then rushed her to the hospital, and they have an artificial machine that is keeping her alive, and this has been going on for one month. All of her bodily functions are becoming more and more diminished, but still, by this machine, she is alive. Now this has gone on for one month. So now they don’t know what to do with her. Should they keep her like this, just running on the machine, or should they stop the machine and then she will die? This is a big legal problem. They don’t know what… If they stop the machine, they’ll be accused of manslaughter.
Pusta Krsna: Some Catholic priest said that better to let her die, because this is God’s way.
Prabhupada: Then he has to accept the God’s way and give up the machine.
Pusta Krsna: But in a situation like that, isn’t it more valuable to preserve human life because there’s the chance…
Prabhupada: What is the use?
Pusta Krsna: There’s a chance that somehow or another, they might be…
Prabhupada: Why should you take the chance? You are perplexed with overpopulation. And why you want to stay? One side, you are perplexed with overpopulation. Let him die.
Pusta Krsna: But they can use the argument that you’re saying that human life is simply for Krsna consciousness or God consciousness.
Prabhupada: No, from his argument, why should you try to keep it? Let him die.
Cyavana: They are afraid of death. No one wants to die.
Pusta Krsna: They are afraid someone will take them off the machine, too.
Cyavana: We want to live as long as we can.
Prabhupada: Then you have to accept that your killing child, abortion, that is sinful.
Cyavana: It’s easier for the mind to accept what is apparent to the senses. For example, to accept that I am this body is easier for my mind than to accept a philosophy which you say that we are not this body. That is very difficult for my mind to accept, whereas I can accept very immediately that I am this body.
Prabhupada: Because it is difficult, therefore you are a fool. That proves that you are a fool.
Cyavana: Why should I strive for something so difficult, such a philosophical understanding, when I can live very happily with this body?
Prabhupada: But because you do not want to die. You want happiness.
Cyavana: So I can enjoy this body.
Prabhupada: You cannot. That is the difficulty. You want, but you cannot. You want. That I know. But you cannot do it.
Harikesa: You never see happy people.
Prabhupada: That is their ignorance. They are accepting unhappiness as happiness.
Brahmananda: Well, in this world there has to be some unhappiness and there has to be some happiness.
Prabhupada: But we are trying to give you happiness only, no unhappiness.
Cyavana: But that’s not possible.
Brahmananda: That’s artificial.
Prabhupada: That you say, but we know.
Cyavana: We cannot see.
Prabhupada: You cannot see, but you will see if you be trained up. That is Krsna consciousness movement.
They never claimed to be able to do this, either. You cannot attack science for being unable to do something that it never claimed to be able to do in the first place. I’ve never seen such an obvious strawman argument before.
Licking of the vagina civilization
Prabhupada: No, we… “It is voluntary. In our society we find so many brahmacaris, so many grhasthas. And if you cannot stop this itching sensation, all right, marry one girl and live peacefully like a gentle… What is this nonsense, every three weeks divorce? We are not so rascal. If we accept one girl as my wife, I take full responsibility. Because I require a girl or woman, so this woman, that one… We are not so rascal that at home I have got woman, I am searching after another woman, another naked woman. We are not so madman. The sex pleasure is there at home, and I am seeking after sex pleasure in here, here, in the club, in the… What is that? Is that vagina is different? You are so fool. You require vagina; take one vagina. Be satisfied. And lick it. Why you are going here and there, here and there, here and there? Even old man is going to the nightclub to lick another vagina. Is that civilization? You are proud of your civilization.” Tell them like that. “Licking of the vagina, different, obnoxious smell. You are less than the dog. The dog likes to smell the vagina. You are like that. What is business of going another vagina? You require vagina. Take one and be satisfied. That is intelligence. First of all there is no need of vagina. But if you want, take one and be satisfied. Why you are searching after dog vagina, this vagina, that vagina, that vagina? Is that civilization?” Expose them like that. “Your brain is filled with so much stool, so we are washing it. What is the wrong there?”
Adi-kesava: Actually they all need brainwashing.
Prabhupada: Yes, “Every one of you require, because your brain is filled up with stool. You have no brain. Brain is covered with stool.” What they will answer?
Satsvarupa: That "If I want to have a stool brain, it may be lamentable, but don’t force me to be washed.
Prabhupada: It is not force. It is no…
Satsvarupa: Let me remain in stool.
Prabhupada: We are preaching. It does not mean that we are forcing. We are saying that “Your brain is in stool. Wash it like this. If one agrees, he does it. Not that in our movement all world has joined. One who is intelligent, he has agreed, ‘Yes.’ I am not forcing. If I would have possessed that forcive power, what right you have got to bring me in the court? You are forcing me to stop this. You are forcing. Nobody can force, but you are forcing.” You should take this argument and expose them at least in the court, licking of the vagina civilization, like dog. Yes animals do that.
Adi-kesava: I think the more strongly we preach in this way, that we don’t try to give in and compromise…
Prabhupada: No, no, no.
Adi-kesava: The more that everyone will hear about this issue…
Prabhupada: We must expose them, that’s all. This is our business. This is a good opportunity in the court, so that it will be published. People will know what is our philosophy. Licking of vagina civilization, this. Publish.
Adi-kesava: All right.
Prabhupada: What they have got anymore, this Western civilization?
Adi-kesava: They say that they are all actually in despair. They don’t see any hope in the future.
Prabhupada: This is their position.
Hari-sauri: Their only hope in the future is that we’ll eat trash, process trash and…
Prabhupada: What is that?
Indian: (Bengali) (break)
Prabhupada: All, let us sit down here.
Hari-sauri: In the room?
Prabhupada: Yes, Gaura-Nitai. Is that argument all right, licking the vagina civilization?
Prthu-putra: Great.
Adi-kesava(?): Very bold.
Hari-sauri: No one’s ever talked to them like that.
Prabhupada: But this is a fact. The old man, seventy-five years old, he’s going to lick up another vagina in the club. This is your Western civilization.
Adi-kesava: Sometimes in New York… You know we live right next to Broadway. The temple is right next to Broadway. Sometimes in New York we see old, old men…
Prabhupada: And in France it is very… In France you have got.
Prthu-putra: In France, yes. All the prostitution going on around the temple.
Adi-kesava: You see even old, old men going to these clubs.
Hari-sauri: If you can still have sex when you’re seventy-five, then you’re a great man. Glorified.
Prabhupada: Just see. This is their civilization. In Paris there are so many clubs. The old men, they first of all pay fifty dollars to enter into the club. Then he selects which vagina he will lick up. Then another payment. I know that. (aside No, he can be asked to sit down there.
Hari-sauri: To sit in the room.
Prabhupada: Yes. Actually this is the fact. But they are fools. They still like to lick up new vagina. Exactly dogs. We are restricting that “Give up this business, licking of vagina,” and they are seeking up to the point of death another vagina, another vagina, another… Which is better? If we say that “Give up this nonsense business,” is that brainwash? And if it is brainwash, it is for good. What is this civilization, who is never satisfied? The same business is going on up to the point of death. Our civilization is: “All right, you are attached to vagina-licking. Do it up to fifty years. Then give it up.” This is our civilization. “You are so much accustomed to the vagina-licking business–up to fifty years, so long you are young. Then give it… Don’t do it anymore.” This is our civilization. And that also, after twenty-five years. For twenty-five years teach him, “It is no good business. Brahmacari. Remain alone. You have got so much botheration.” If he’s still unable: “All right, take one wife. Be satisfied. Lick up one. And then, at the age of fifty years, give up.” This is our… Is that wrong?
Satsvarupa: It’s good.
Hari-sauri: It’s great.
Prabhupada: Because unless you give up this business of vagina-licking, you’ll have to be entangled in this body. Either as a dog or as a hog, as a human being or as a demigod, as a tree, as an insect, it will go on. In this way plead. Let the people understand what we are preaching. Advance this philosophy, widely discussed. Then our success.
Hari-sauri: There’s no question this will be widely discussed.
Prabhupada: And… (someone enters) (Bengali) (break) Smelling the aroma, such a nonsense.
Hari-sauri: As you say, just like dogs.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Hari-sauri: Just like the dogs.
Prabhupada: Dogs and all animals, smelling vagina. They think, “Here is real pleasure.”
Hari-sauri: There’s no need to move around, Srila Prabhupada… (break)
Prabhupada: They’re going for vagina and paying heavy toll: fifty dollars for entering the club, then two hundred dollars for drinking. You know this?
Hari-sauri: Yes.
Prabhupada: This is their civilization, vagina civilization. In Florida they go, Miami, to spend money weekly, five hundred, five thousand dollars for naked dance. You know that?
Hari-sauri: Yes. So many places. Las Vegas. Every big city has…
Prabhupada: And Brahmananda told me sometimes they see on the stage a fatty woman having sex with an ass. This is exhibited in Mexico. And they enjoy it.
Hari-sauri: In Europe they have sex fairs.
Prabhupada: Sex fair? What is that?
Hari-sauri: You can go, and they have sideshows, men and women having sex on the stage at regular intervals, and they exhibit all kinds of contraptions that you can use to pervert your sex life even more.
Prabhupada: What they will understand about this Krsna consciousness?
Hari-sauri: There’s not very much hope for them.
Prabhupada: Help is for everyone, but if they remain stubborn to their own way of life, then it is not possible. They have to wash the brain. Otherwise it is possible.
Hari-sauri: You explain in the Bhagavatam that everything actually is just an extension of the sex desire.
Prabhupada: That’s it.
Hari-sauri: Their whole big cities and so much industry…
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hari-sauri: …and work is just simply…
Prabhupada: For the central point–vagina. Yan maithunadi-grhamedhi-sukham hi tuccham. The other day… Maithunyam agaram ajnah vindati tapan.
Hari-sauri: Rsabhadeva’s instructions. (end)
[S.P. Room Conversation, February 19, 1977, Mayapura]
Licking of the vagina, this they can do.
Moti, could you stop quoting others to do your arguing for you. It is blindingly obvious that Prabhupada, Pusta Krsna, and Brahmananda are all completely ignorant in regards to science. Quite frankly, none of them know what they’re talking about.
Yes and all these blind darwin lovers worship the big vagina licking scientists with the hope that the scientists will give them eternal vagina licking, is it not?
Moti, if all you can do is cut and paste huge chunks of other people’s stuff in a Great Debates thread that you started, then you’re not going to last long around here.
Just a hint, and although I know I’m not the first one to mention this hint to you, it does seem like you’re the kind of person who needs to be told this sort of thing more than once.
Yes, but I was a follower of Shakti taught me. She tutored me in the arts of the Kama Sutra and the knowledge of Kundalini.
random vagina licking, how’s about that JOE, really scientific.
You obviously have nothing worthwhile to say. The fact that you can only regurgitate the words of others is quite sad, actually. Of course, after seeing some of the stuff you say when you’re using your own words, I can see why you’d rather let others do your talking for you.
My thought is that you aint answering the points. My mind has studied the points by Prabhupada and is in total agreement.
By the way why do you always quote your limited mind which is simply an amalgamation of various speculations that you have acumulated throughout your life and at the same time criticise me for quoting from spiritual authority? Why is your mind quoting ok, but my Prabhupada quoting is not?
Your criticising is like a man who has criticised a friend for buying all his shopping from the supermarket. “Why do you only buy from the supermarket, why not buy your goods from all the corner shops?”
The answer he gets is “Why should i go here and there when a can get everything in the supermarket”
So you quote from all your various corner shops but i quote my Supermarket, ok.
Now let’s address the points and stop attacking my character.
Of course you can continue to follow and quote your vagina licking scientist guru’s.
I bought a really nice bath towel there once, made entirely out of recycled material.
“Don’t be a vagina-smelling animal.”
Prabhupada: Everywhere. This male and female, nature’s gift that is. Therefore tasyaiva hetoh. These things you’ll get.
Tamala Krsna: Yes. So why use the…?
Prabhupada: Why you are after these things?
Tamala Krsna: Hm. Wasting human life.
Prabhupada: You’ll get woman. So be satisfied, the nature’s gift of woman, nature’s gift of your position, and utilize your life for Krsna consciousness. Why more and more, more, and naked and this way and that way? The other day what did I say? Vagina-licking civilization.
Bali-mardana: Hm?
Tamala Krsna: Vagina-licking civilization.
Prabhupada: They’re spending so much money for vagina-looking.
Tamala Krsna: Oh, that’s their whole consciousness.
Prabhupada: Yes. The money is earned with so hard labor and it is spent for vagina-looking.
Tamala Krsna: Polished dog society.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes, dog also smells the vagina, and they also do the same thing. Therefore nature has arranged that dog are smelling vagina on the street. One vagina and three dozen dogs surrounded.
Tamala Krsna: Yes. Vrndavana you see that.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: Now that’s going on in America. They are spending money just for that.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: Three dozen men look at one woman, same business.
Bali-mardana: And they make big literatures, magazines, everywhere, all over the streets. They put them in the street…
Tamala Krsna: The big thing now in America, the most popular shop, is called “Adult Books.” “Adult Bookshop.”
Hari-sauri: “Adult cinema,” “adult this,” “adult that.”
Prabhupada: Topless, bottomless. Yan maithunadi-grhamedhi-sukham hi tuccham kanduyanena karayor iva duhkha-duhkham, trpyanti neha krpana bahu-duhkha-bhajah. Bahu-duhkha-bhajah. Krpana. The rascals. Krpana means non-brahmana, without any spiritual knowledge. They are never satisfied, the vagina business. Trpyanti neha krp-- although it is followed by so much miserable condition–bahu-duhkha-bhajah kandutivan manasijam visaheta dhirah. One who is dhira, sober, he tolerates little itching sensation: “What this nonsense?” And if you practice toleration, there will be no more. Finished. You become liberated. Therefore, from the very beginning of life, childhood, this teach him, that “Don’t be a vagina-smelling animal.” Brahmacari. Brahmacari guru-grhe vasan dantah. To learn how to control the senses, that is brahmacari. Where is that civilization? So establish. Give them food. Give them shelter. Give them knowledge. That is para-upakara, doing welfare to others. But don’t be entangled in vagina civilization. Yan maithunadi-grhamedhi-sukham. It is most abominable civilization, tuccham, condemned civilization.
[S.P. Room Conversation, February 25, 1977, Mayapura]
::sigh::
Wait, I’m confused. Is Darwin pro- or anti-vagina licking?
Yes, in the USA Hijras are everywhere.