My issue is not with my daughter going on the trip, so much as with her mom’s reaction.
Short story, eldest daughter, 20 y-o college soph, is renting an apt for the next school year with 2 other girls. The lease just started. She wants to go down over the summer, to bring some stuff down - moreso I think just to check it out. I told her I had no problem bringing all of her stuff when the school year started, or she could borrow a car if she paid the gas. Yesterday she told us she had plans to go down with her BF on a Sat and return the following day. Actually, she kind of presented it by asking if it was okay if she did this on such-and-such weekend.
BF is a fine guy. College grad, employed, we know and like him and his family.
My daughter is a good student, and (I think) not sexually active and drug and alcohol free.
So I have no objection to her taking this trip. But her mom does not approve. Says she is surprised I am not concerned about my daughter’s “reputation.” Says she doesn’t feel she is in position to tell my daughter she can’t do this, but isn’t going to say she approves.
I’d like to hear what you folks think both about a child taking such a trip, and what to do when you and your spouse disagree on something like this.
I think it’s goofy to expect your twenty-year-old daughter to remain a virgin with an “unblemished reputation.” Whether she’s having sex or not is really none of your business; she’s an adult.
And consider yourselves lucky that you like her boyfriend, because if you didn’t, it probably wouldn’t matter.
I think you are being sensible and your wife is being rather remarkably obtuse. She may not believe it, but a twenty-year-old daughter is a grown-up, and can make her own choices. And things will run much more smoothly between mother and daughter if mom realizes this sooner rather than later.
In so far as she’s 20 years old, I think it was very nice of her to tell you her plans even though she doesn’t have to.
She’s a young woman and is able to come and go as she pleases. Whether she chooses to be sexually active or not is also something that is her decision alone and none of anyone else’s business. Whether or not her mother (or your) approves is completely immaterial.
My first reaction is that you’re kidding yourself on the “not sexually active” thing.
My second reaction is what kind of time warp does your wife live in that she thinks your daughter has a “reputation” that would be affected by her going out of town with her BF?
You have to murder someone while pulling a train to get a “reputation” these days. Seriously, I feel she is overreacting. Your daughter (and all your kids, actually) are far more on the straight-and-narrow than the majority of their peers. I would not hesitate for a moment to give my stamp of approval to her. She is a young adult and is entitled to make this decision for herself. You’ve done a great job raising her. Don’t lay a reputation guilt trip on her. She sounds like a great kid who will continue to make good choices.
I agree with other posters - 20 years old is (at least) 2 years older than I would expect someone to be before they stop asking their parents for permission to do things. As for the reputation bit, is your wife worried that her daughter might have her honour taken therefore spoiling her marriage prospects or something?
If at all possible, I’d appreciate it if we could do this without any avoidable insults of my wife.
Re: the sexually inactive - I really don’t care so long as she is careful. Yesterday I told her that as a dad, my first reaction was “My daughter and a guy are going to be alone in a place with beds!” :eek: But I told her that didn’t really bother me. First, I understood she was not sexually active. In any event, if she were, she sure wouldn’t need to drive 100 miles to get laid. Second, I told her there was nothing wrong with sex, so long as she was emotionally comfortable with it and took precautions for health and to avoid pregnancy. And I told her that her mom and I had both been sexually active by her age.
If anything, I think my eldest is a little conservative - in many respects. I think a trip on her own - and maybe getting laid - would probably be a good thing for her.
Again, my main question was how you would deal with your spouse on something like this. I don’t think calling her “remarkably obtuse” will significantly improve family dynamics!
Wow. My (very overprotective) mother let me visit a long-distance boyfriend when I was 19,
All she did was tell me I wasn’t ready to have sex yet (which you could make an argument for, since I was always more metromom’s daughter then metronome).
Oh, and she said, “if you see that thing comin’ at you, cut it off with a machete.”
The whole thing sounds kind of like my fiance’s family: they were appalled that we were going to live together before we got married, because, “what will people think?!” Um… how about that we can’t afford to live alone…?
Well, as I said in my previous post, question her as to what exactly it is she’s worried will happen? What kind of reputation is your daughter in danger of getting? And who exactly is it that will be holding it against her? If you wife is concerned that the local fishwives might start gossiping about her then I’d want to know a) why she cared and b) why the local fishwives weren’t using their psychic powers to do more than just gossip (after all people will only know about this if you tell them).
First off she is no longer a child. At 20 she is an adult. While living at home, you get to say what goes on under your roof, but she is an adult.
Secondly, she probably isn’t a virgin, but who cares? This isn’t the 1950s.
Funny story from the parenting trenches.
My son (then 19ish) was living at home and had a very catholic girlfriend. he comes to me one day and says he and GF would like to go to Santa Barbara for the weekend, and did I have a problem with that. Fine I say, you are an adult, have a great time, but I have one request, please make sure you clear it with her parents so I don’t get a phone call at 2AM looking for their daughter.
No problem was the reply.
They go, a good time was had (I assume anyway)
A couple of weeks later, something was kind of bugging me, so when I had a chance I asked my son this question:
Hey I don’t mean to pry, but I am curious as hell. Just what did you tell GF’s parents that made them say OK to your trip out of town?
“We told them we were going to sleep in separate beds”, he replied.
:eek: :dubious: “I notice that you didn’t try that line on me.”
“Naw, I didn’t think either of us could have kept a straight face if I had.”
My wife asked me what the BF’s parents would think. Which struck me a kinda odd as she knows them far better than I. (My family and theirs are quite active in military re-enactment. My wife and BF’s mom pretty much run their unit, and my wife and BF’s dad have been on many campouts together with the unit.)
She also said she was surprised I wasn’t bothered by something my parents certainly would have disapproved of. Which was odd, as she rarely has a good thing to say about my parents’ choices/positions. And I disagree with my (now deceased) parents on just about every issue from politics through religion, and have rarely used them as a guide for childrearing - other than to share their expectation of educational success.
My natural reaction is to basically shut up and hope this blows over - which it rarely does. So I do appreciate you guys being a sounding board. I’d like to engage a conversation, without turning it into a war.
Dinsdale, as I always say when you have a parenting crisis…
Your kids sound great. Cut the cord and let them do their own adult thing now. Because if they’re as good as you say they are, they most likely really resent all of this drama everytime you (or your wife) think they’re not doing “the right thing.”
As for what to tell your wife, tell her that, word for word. It’s time to cut the cord, they’re adults now, they probably think we’re being unreasonable and a little crazy.
I’m kind of amazed a 20 year old would ask for permission from her parents about something like that. I’m only 2 years older than your daughter and I haven’t consulted my parents about such things for ages. I don’t even live in the same country as them. And don’t get me wrong, I love my parents and am very close to them, but I don’t need their permission for anything. Your daughter is not going to get a “reputation” for leaving town with her boyfriend… has your wife been reading romance novels or something lately? I don’t think anyone has actually said that since like 1950. That’s not an insult, I’m sure your wife is honestly concerned, but I do find it a little bizarre. I mean, I was not, to my sorrow, sexually active at that age or any younger age, but I do know that my friend (19) just when on an overnight camping trip with her boyfriend by themselves and there are many other examples as well. It is perfectly normal for your 20 year old daughter to spend the night with her boyfriend.
Not being married, I don’t know what to say about your wife, except that I do suspect that telling your daughter you don’t approve will only lead to her feeling temporarily bad and then not bothering to ask anymore. You might suggest this to your wife.
Your wife is camping out with her daughter’s BF’s dad, and she’s worried about your daughter’s reputation??? :eek: :eek:
I keed, I keed…
But you can tell her the local fishwives have been gossiping about it…
Firstly, I think both you and your wife need to stop thinking of your 20 year old daughter as a child [emphasis in your quoted added by me].
Secondly, when my spouse and I disagree like this, I try to get them to explain their viewpoint as clearly as possible. You say she is concerned for her daughter’s reputation - ask your wife to explain exactly what she means by this.
If your wife wants to know what the BF parent’s think, then she can ring them and ask.
I imagine she will be put off by being told that she’s somewhat out of touch with today’s “moral standards” (or lack thereof ), so you might want to poll your work buddies who have kids in the same age group, might remind her that she was sexually active at that age (and didn’t sprout cloven hooves and a pointy tail). She also might want to poll her friends and see what their take is on the state of “reputations” in America today. I seriously don’t think anyone would give it a second thought (and I think most people assume that a long term relationship between 20 year olds automatically carries a sexual component). I think your daughter is very much in the minority with regard to sex. That’s not to say your wife needs to change her opinion just because the rest of the world has relaxed its standards, but approving and acknowledging are two different things.
I agree with the posters above in terms of the facts of the matter. As far as how to handle it with your wife, I suggest the following. Set the stage for a relaxed conversation, cup of coffee, glass of wine, whatever applies. The general message of the discussion should be “well, our little girl has really grown up.” The goal should be to get her to realize that at this age you as parents don’t either approve or disapprove of your daughter’s actions at this level of detail.
What will the boyfriend’s parents think? IME they won’t think much. I bet dollars to doughnuts you wouldn’t even be posting it if it were your son we were talking about. (**Rick ** is my cite )The double standard isn’t as dead as we like to think it is.
If you and your wife had strong beliefs against premarital sex, I for one would be OK with you making a point of that to your daughter, at least as long as you’re still largely supporting her through school. But it doesn’t sound like that’s the issue, so it’s more a question of realizing you’ve done the best job you could of raising a kid with a good head on her shoulders and letting go.
Make an effort to muster some empathy for your wife, too. She’s probably seen the negative consequences of bad choices in this area from a different perspective than you have, due to the double standard thing. Maybe it was a tougher milestone for you when the kids started driving or something. IMHO it’s OK for your wife to find this stressful. Just like driving, it does mean a new set of risks are in play for your daughter.
I think that if your daughter is 20 years old and dating a college graduate, they are most likely sexually active. Even if they were not, she’s plenty old enough to make her own decisions about this. If you’ve given a good grounding in risks and responsibilites, at this point she shouldn’t have to worry about your approval for an over night trip. She’s an adult.
I have a 19-year-old daughter that is dating a 22-year-old, and I’m much more concerned about her access to birth control than the state of her “reputation”. I thought it was amusing back when I was 20 and living with my then-boyfriend and my mother was worried about what the neighbors would think. These days there’s not many people that are concerned about this.
Well, I think in large part that is a issue in semantics, not necessarily perception. While adult offspring may not chronologically be children, don’t they remain their parents’ children?
Altho I admit, the line does get a little blurred when the “adult child” is living at home at least part of the time, and accepting considerable financial assistance from the parents. Moreso when, as with this particular kid, they seem somewhat conservative and parochial in their approach to life.
I’ve talked with her about what she wants to be called. For 20 years we have referred to our 3 kids as “the kids.” Is a hard habit to break. She said she doesn’t mind being called a kid. Says she often thinks of and refers to her college classmates as kids, whatever their chronological age.
And it is a sorta weird thing about asking permission. While she does not need to ask permission, she certainly ought to show us some respect if she wishes to continue our present arrangement. I told her I did not feel I was in a position to give her permission to do this or much of anything else, tho I could and would tell her what she could do within our house, and would express my opinion about her choices if I learned of them. But in short, if I grossly disapproved of her choices, my main response would be to request that she live elsewhere.
I think my daughter does respect our opinions, and desires our approval. So when she raised this topic, she did want to hear what we thought. I took it mainly as an act of respect and courtesy on her part, rather than a literal request for permission.
Heck, she picked a weekend when my wife and son would be out of town, we had nothing else planned, and she’d be going down in her BF’s car and using his gas. Plus, anything they bring down will be one less thing I’ll have to lug up to her 2d floor apt come August. I thought it was a mighty dandy idea. Was surprised at my wife’s reaction.
To put this in a little more perspective, my 86 year old Catholic grandma was perfectly cool with it when my wife (then girlfriend) and I moved in together. She also told me there was no reason to rush into marriage if we weren’t ready because we had our whole lives ahead of us. And then she gave us this great coffee table to help fill out our living room.
)The double standard isn’t as dead as we like to think it is.