daughter announces engagement, but I have mixed feelings about it.

In My Humble Opinion
21

I’m wondering about this one too – and I noticed it was one that wasn’t answered in the OP’s followup posting.

I suppose I’m coming at this from a slightly different angle – being that I am myself a housewife and have been for 20 years. Furthermore, I am not an especially ambitious, competitive or high-powered person. And, yet, I think I’ve made a valuable contribution to my family over the past 20 years. “Valuable” I say, just not in a financial sense. My husband is a very ambitious person – very competitive and very driven. He has been able to make his career his main priority on a day-to-day basis because I’ve been home taking care of the nuts-and-bolts business of running our home. And I assure you that my husband feels his luck – he has known many couples where both husband and wife have high-powered careers and, in general, their homelives are not as comfortable as ours is.

Your daughter seems to recognize (like my husband) the benefit to a hard-working career person of having a stay-at-home partner to manage the home front. If her intended is a good guy, his presence in her life could add greatly to your daughter’s comfort, if not to her bank account.

Now, the possiblity exists that he is not a good guy – that’s he is, in fact, a lazy slacker looking for a gravy train. But that’s far from the only possibility. The fact that he’s had a successful stint in the military speaks well for him, IMO, anyway. So does the fact that your daughter, a bright woman apparently, loves him. My advice would be to take a step back and give your daughter (an adult professional, after all) the respect of allowing her to make her own reasonable choices.

22

My parents were lukewarm on my sister’s beau at first. She’s super-high-powered (lawyer); he’s a more mellow, laid-back guy who yes, has a bachelor’s, but isn’t enormously ambitious.
They’re still goopily in love seven years later, and my parents now adore him. She goes off to work, he stays home with their son and works part-time at the bookstore.

It works for them.

23

I’ve been down these roads a bit.
I married a guy who was/is supercompetitive and a go getter. A success in society by anyone’s objective standard (Full professor at a Big 10 university, physically fit, makes over 100K per year). Oh yeah, he’s also an alchoholic and a mean SOB. I thank my stars every morning that I am no longer living under the same roof with that man.

I’m now in a relationship with a person who is much more low key, no graduate school, less ambitious, etc. etc. But he’s a kind person and he supports me. I’m far better off with the guy with the smaller bank account but larger heart.
There are qualities in a future son-in-law that are infinitely more important than earning potential and level of education. Is he a good person? Does he have a kind heart? Does he totally support your daughter, or does he make “jokes” about her deficiencies? That’s what I’d be worried about.

24

Right now, I’m the one who stays at home and takes care of things. I do not yet have any college education. I’m 27 years old and married. No children yet. My husband works hard and makes a lot of money (and his inheritence doesn’t hurt, however, we try not to rely heavily on it, and spend only as if we were living only on what he makes currently, so we will have money for our children’s education).

When we start having children, and the situation is the same, I will be expected to stay at home and raise the kids. Is there something wrong with that?

If not, why not turn the tables? I adore children, and I would love my own, but if I were the one making the big money, and my husband could stay at home and take care of the kids and the house, I would definitely do it in a heartbeat. He deserves the opportunity as much as I do.

Yet, if I did that, I can guarantee my mother would suddenly look down her nose at my husband. She loves him to death right now, because he provides for me. I don’t have a job because I don’t have a SSN yet. If I get a job and wind up making more than my husband, I will tell him it’s time for a well-deserved break. And society would think I was heartless and didn’t care for my children, and that my husband was lazy. Amazing.

It reminds me of the old joke about the two mothers discussing their children. One says “My daughter married the greatest man. He insist she sleep in, sends her to the spa during the day, and then gives her his credit card so she can go shopping at the end of the day. He’s wonderful!” The other mother says, “Wow, you are so lucky. My son married a slob. She sleeps all day, then spends all her time at the spa instead of cleaning the house, and then when he gets home, she spends all his money!”

Seriously, though, take some time to really get to know your daughter’s fiance. Forget about what society dictates everyone’s position in life should be. Maybe you’ll find he’s a great guy - or, perhaps he really is a lazy bum. Don’t judge him by his wallet. I was engaged to a genuinly lazy ass once, and it became apparent and I got the heck out of there. He wanted me to pay for his “education”, however, he told me he hoped he could go to school forever - he didn’t plan on doing *anything * with his education, he just wanted to become a full time student. He admitted that he just didn’t want to work. Ever. So talk to this guy, casually, don’t corner him. It might not happen with one conversation, get to know the guy. He could become a part of your family, so it’s a good idea, anyway. My ex avoided speaking to my parents whenever he could, and got angry with me when I told them anything about him, claiming it was none of their business. Now some things are fine, but he was obviously nervous that my parents would figure out he was a gold-digger. Be a part of their life; be close to them. It helps to ease your mind, especially if he’s not a bad guy.

I’m not trying to sound mean, so I hope you don’t feel attacked. I just wanted to put things in a different persepective, as others have done. No matter what happens, I hope it is what’s best for your daughter’s happiness - and your peace of mind, as well. :slight_smile:

25

Er… or what she said. :smack: :wink:

26

It depends on what you’re concerned about…are you worried he’s just a leech or for their financial future?

Financially speaking, if you and your wife have a dual-income situation where you’ve provided an upper-income lifestyle for her most of her life, she may not have a realistic notion of what it really costs to raise a family of 4-esp. factoring in costs of living in certain parts of the country, and inflation. Sure, she can gamble on becoming partner at some soul-sucking firm and drawing in 500K a year. Or she could end up like a lot of me and my friends did-starting out in the highish 5 figures with a prospective cap in the low to mid 100s because we just don’t want to work that much…and I really can’t imagine raising a family on that anywhere I grew up (and not with the type of loans I/most law students have). It’s a really bad idea to base your financial future on what you think you might get after law school-before you even take a job in that area and figure out what it entails (lifestyle-wise) and how the economy is going at that point in time. When I was in law school I thought I wanted to be an 80 hour a week antitrust lawyer. Umm, not so much these days.

I think your prospective financial situation should be part of your future consideration in a relationship-people break up over money way too much. If she’s given it thought and knows the facts, then you should step aside gracefully. But there’s also no harm in letting her know what it means to survive on a single income (in the most generic and non-accusatory terms possible)-my parents certainly did. After their version of the Theo-Cosby conversation, it really didn’t look that appetizing, but I come from a dual-income family and have different expectations of life and family (also influenced by the fact that I’m from a completely different culture), so that’s just my personal opinion.

If you think he’s a leech then you’re between a rock and a hard place. Sure you could tell her-but it might just antagonize the hell out of her.

27

We feel the same way, which is a great comfort to us.

I’m sure if that was our scenario, my daughter wouldn’t be who she is… without boring everyone with a dissertation about her, I’ll just say that she has very strong feminist convictions and has been declaring since a very young age that she would never marry and be the partner to stay home and raise the kids. I appreciate that she’s shared that with her fiance and I hope he takes her strong opinions and values seriously for his sake and for hers, as well. So, to consider your scenario, I’d have to have a very different daughter from the one I have, and if she were someone who’d be happy/content to be a stay-at-home mom and have husband $upport the family, AS long as it’s fine with both of them, it’s fine with us… my contention, obviously not very apparent to other posters, is that I worry that her fiance may be OK with it all now, but I can’t imagine he’d be ok with it for very long… maybe this is a sexist stereotype I’m treading on, but I think when the roles are reversed, it’s much harder for the male than the female. Additionally, he’s told my daughter he doesn’t like being around her friends (close friends she’s known since grade school and who happen to be attending ivy league colleges around the country)… SHE thinks he feels intimidated by them so she’s decided to make an effort not to visit them and to make excuses when they’re in town to visit her… ummmm, this too is sending out some negative messages to us.

I’m happy for both you and your cousin. My daughter’s fiance doesn’t want to go to college… maybe he’d be more open to those internet college degree programs? Are they for real? Well we’re not going to press him to consider it, he has to want something bad enough to work for it himself and what we know of him today, college is not on his agenda.

28

I’m seeing alarm bells all over this. The thing is, male or female, adults are supposed to look after themselves. No career aspirations is not a good thing in an adult. I am somewhat prejudiced on this subject, though - I’ve watched my sister work her ass off with her husband staying home with the kids for the last 10 years, and it hasn’t been great for her. Maybe your daughter’s man will be different, but I believe it takes a special kind of househusband to run a house properly, and my brother-in-law did virtually nothing to make my sister’s life easier - he made it harder, in fact, than having a proper babysitter/housekeeper who would have looked after the kids AND the house would have.

In other words, if your daughter thinks having her husband stay home with the kids means that he’s going to look after all the household issues, she might have a rude awakening. And a mate with no ambitions is going to drag on her damned quick.

29

That whole “love is blind” thing is really true…you can always look back later and say, “wow…I was really, really, really dumb. I didn’t think I had a capacity for that much dumbness, but man I sure managed to be dumb!” When you are in the situation it is much harder to look at it objectively. Your daughter will learn that in her own time, much the same way I did, much the same way millions of other people have. It comes with youth…you can be brilliant in many ways, but until you start experiencing things for yourself you can’t really know what’s what.

30

My mom always says “go into marriage with your eyes wide open, and keep them half-closed ever after”

31

My sister was making over $100,000 a year before age 30, when she got married and had her first kid she literally gave it all up to be a stay at home mom for 2-3 years. Her husband never requested this of her (he was a lawyer and made slightly less money.) Which was surprising to all of us since she’d actually long claimed she’d never have kids anyways. After getting the kid to toddler-hood she started working out of the house making far less money than before, and splitting her time between light work and childrearing/housekeeping. I’m sure you know your daughter very well, but never say never. People can and do change more than most people are willing to believe.

Is your daughter expecting the husband to always be a stay at home guy? Did she just say “he’ll stay at home and raise the kids” in passing, or is that something they’ve actually discussed and decided on? Would you expect your daughter to have a problem with him deciding to get employment outside of the house?

Completely off topic - but he’s been in the military, it might be smart for him to consider a permanent career along those lines.

This is sort of a mixed issue. It’s one thing to just dislike your SO’s friends. My wife came from an affluent Southern community, most of her female friends that she grew up with went through high school and then their four years at a small, religious oriented college (in which most of them majored in some mindless field of study) with their entire beings focused on landing a big catch, a man with prospects of a good career and who would make a good father. And that’s fine, their lives. And of course they become the stereotypical soccer moms the moment they started producing the kiddies. When they come over all they want to talk about is what Johnny is doing in school, how many hits he got in yesterday’s little league game, the new hairstyle they’re experimenting with etc.

And for whatever reason my wife enjoys talking to them. Me, personally I’ve contemplated getting the poker from my fireplace and killing all of them in a whirlwind of fury and anger after having to smile and nod through clenched teeth at every stupid and pedantinc little thing they say. So typically when they come over I make myself scarce.

But, I’ve never asked that they not come over, or that my wife not talk to them, etc. It’s one thing to dislike your SO’s friends, it’s another to try and limit the friends your SO has. One is fairly harmless, the other can be the sign of a controlling and potentially abusive person. Did your daughter’s fiance ever specifically ask that she not have her friends over, or not talk with them? Or did he just complain about the fact he didn’t like them and your daughter took the rest on her own initiative?

32

I’m a lot more concerned by this than by the other stuff, frankly. A laid-back guy who wants to take on the role of homemaker is one thing (and was what I was addressing in my previous post); an insecure guy who is willing to see her isolate herself from her friends because he feels inferior around them is quite another. Doesn’t bode well, I’m afraid. It’s one thing if he just doesn’t care for (or have much in common) with some of her friends – that’s normal. He probably has friends she isn’t wild about. But the reasonable solution isn’t to require that your partner eliminate all those friends you personally don’t like.

I’ve known stay-at-home mothers who were this way, too. There are a lot of women out there who let their husbands go off to their jobs and then require them (through nagging and whining) to ‘help out’ with the housework once they get home – even though, there was plenty of time to get the chores done while the husbands were at work. These women chose to use their workday hours on other things than housework – sleeping in, watching TV, working on hobbies – and then expected their husbands (who had been at jobs all day and thus forced to use their workday hours on work) to pick up the slack. Not right, obviously, but very, very common. So I’m not surprised to hear that some househusbands are similarly inclined to be slackers.

To tell you the truth, though, the stay-at-home dads I’ve known (admittedly far fewer than the stay-at-home moms) have been far less inclined towards slacker-dom than their sistern. I’ve known half-a-dozen or so househusbands and 100% of them kept up their end of the bargain – taking care of the kids and house and making things much easier for their working-outside-the-home spouse. My guess is that househusbands are likely to be hard-working within the home, because of the societal idea that it’s ‘lazy’ to stay home. These guys were almost overcompensating to prove they weren’t lazy. One of my friends took care of 3 children (including far more extra-curricular stuff than I ever took on – he was, at various times, a soccer and T-Ball coach, a scoutleader, a Sunday School teacher, and a classroom volunteer), and a house (including all housework and yardwork, plus numerous improvement projects over the years). He also volunteered outside the home, once his kids were all in school fulltime – he worked for Navy Relief and was the Ombudsman for at least one of his wife’s ships. The dude worked far, FAR harder than I did – and I was never a slacker stay-at-home mom, I assure you.

I guess the question here is, what kind of a guy is pace’s future son-in-law? I’m sticking by my contention that a one-spouse-at-work and one-spouse-at-at-home team can certainly work and work well – whichever sex the at-work and at-home partners happen to be. However, both partners have to be willing to shoulder their share.

33

Um. I didn’t want to engage in any more class or gender stereotyping than I did in my last posting, but I could see control being a BIG problem with a less educated, military-trained husband. Think workingclass background with stratified sex roles. Think male-dominant, obedience culture. :rolleyes:

34

I think it’s one thing to want to be a stay-at-home parent and another thing entirely to have so much antipathy towards education-esp. when you’re marrying someone highly educated. Not everyone is a school person, but the people I know that aren’t school people usually tend to be entrepreneurial, self-sustaining go-getters. From pace’s description the dude doesn’t want to be educated, nor does he want to do anything productive until they have children. So what gives? I would think that to be strange in anyone. Can’t the dude get a B.A. until she pops out kids? Almost every stay-at-home parent I know is pretty well-educated and would at least have some sort of degree to fall back on if god-forbid his/her partner lost his/her job. Not to mention their values-does he even respect education or expect it of his children? I know a lot of doctors/lawyers and they almost ALL have high expectations of their children, educationally speaking.

Everything is great when you’re in love but ten years down the road she’s going to be stuck with someone with no degree and virtually no marketable skills beyond some past experience in the military reserve. And from a woman in law school…I find it just really weird that she would be willing to get into that type of situation without any forethought.

35

Some gals just like a manly-man, that’s all. (Once again: :rolleyes:.)

36

The Managing Director of 3M for this region is a very lovely woman married to a former pro-rodeo bullrider. They have a 14 yr old son who is on his way to becoming a star hockey player and/or poker player and is otherwise one of the nicest teens I have ever encountered. I think they did OK. The husband is now in-between jobs looking for something to do, but it is difficult being in a foreign country looking for work…but he does look for things and is very active daily. I expect he will find something soon, but even if the cards are against him, he is a loving husband and father, and I believe they will do just fine.

The head of HR for KPMG for the region is a very nice lady from Australia who brought her ‘trailing spouse’ along. They have 3 children that are aged 9 to 19 (I think). He now has a job with DHL that he enjoys, but it probably doesn’t bring in the money his wife’s position does.

But stereotypes are there for a reason…they are often just a statistical sampling of the perceived norm. Quite possibly this guy is looking for a free ride. But, then again, maybe he is just looking for something that fits him and his personality. Maybe he wants to open a model train store. Fun, interactive, gets to play with toys and earn a buck or two. Maybe he wants to work for a local charity. Or maybe he wants to learn how to be a mechanic. Or he likes the focus and single-mindedness of copy-machine repair. Do you KNOW what he wants? Have you asked him? If not, why not? He is looking like he will soon be part of your family…better start treating him like such. Who knows, maybe he’ll find some direction from you, dad.

Right now your daughter faces a 50/50 chance of a failed marriage. Those odds can be varied by a few factors such as your marriage and his parent’s marriage (his parents divorced?), financial situation (are they in debt with her school bills?), etc. etc.

I suggest you have a heart to heart with the guy. Maybe you can help define his views on what to expect being with your daughter.

Parenting…doesn’t always end when they walk down that aisle, eh?

-Tcat

37

Personally, I’d be more worried about her decision to become engaged after only two months than about the lesser education/employment of her fiance. So anything you can DIPLOMATICALLY suggest to your daughter so that she has plenty of time to be certain this is the decision she wants to commit to, the better.

However, let me just add an acecdote… I was in a similar situation as your daughter, in that I had a master’s degree and my husband-to-be was a college dropout and had no job when I met him. But we married, had a son, and stayed married for 18 years. Our breaking up was not due to our different socioeconomic backgrounds.

At the time of my engagement, I could tell that my parents didn’t approve of my choice, but they swallowed their pride and welcomed him into the family, and it was certainly the right thing for them to have done. I was going to marry this man whether or not they gave their stamp of approval, and it’s way more important to have a close relationship with your daughter than to potentially destroy it because you disapprove of her choice.

So as long as you can DIPLOMATICALLY help to ensure that she is certain of her choice, then you must give her your blessing, and be there emotionally for your daughter, whatever happens with her marriage.

I hope that all goes well for her.

38

The quick jump from dating to engagement was also surprising to us. We’ll certainly try to persuade her–both of them, really-- to consider a longer engagement, and not wanting to burn any bridges with our daughter or her fiance, we’ll be very diplomatic in how proceed from here.

39

The quick jump from dating to engagement was also surprising to us. We’ll certainly try to persuade her–both of them, really-- to consider a longer engagement, and not wanting to burn any bridges with our daughter or her fiance, we’ll be very careful proceeding from this point.

40

I missed this on the first go-round - this is probably the most troubling thing you’ve presented about this guy. When I was a younger, less experienced person, I cut myself off from my friends and family for a guy, too, and it was a big mistake. I got out of that bad relationship after about a year; I would have divorced him eventually if I’d been foolish enough to marry him. My parents didn’t like him, but I didn’t care - I thought we were in LOO-OOOVE!

I really feel for you that you have to watch your daughter making what appear to be some questionable life choices here, Pace, but all you can really do is be there for her, support her as much as you can emotionally, and help her move her stuff when she finally has enough of this guy. And hope there’s no kids involved.

Jeeze, I wish I had some better advice for you - some magic way of getting her to not date this loser and especially not marry and have kids with him, but she’ll make her own bed like we all do and she’ll have to lie in it.