Daughter calls her mom a bitch---is that 100% bad?

[robertliguori]

@Euthanasiast

That’s an impressive little army of strawmen you have there.

I’ve stated my position over and over on the matter, and I’m tapped out. I think the best thing for me to do at this point is just leave it to the wind.

It’s all yours,

Euth

Er, I’m not a logic or philosophy major, but I don’t see how “it is wrong to beat your adult child” is a strawman.

[Cartooniverse]

It’s not.

The whole " Nice Strawman" followed immediately by " You cannot be dealt with rationally because I have decided your argument is nothing but a strawman so I am outa here because your arguments are beneath my incredibly fine logic " is classic Message Board passive aggressive.

Even if you were completely alone in your position in a Debate here on SDMB, you have the right to defend it as you see fit. Keep on keepin’ on, and stick to your ideas.

Additionally, a beating is a beating is a beating, IMHO. As I said up there somewhere in this thread, that’s called assault. One does not sit mutely in teary-eyed gratitude for having been shown the right way by the force of the palm of a hand. One calls the police. At least, in civilized societies one does…

[The_Flying_Dutchman]

Father of two daughters here. I suspect gross exageration here on the part of the father. Story telling you know?
I like the part of breaking down the door. I once had an employer discuss how he once deliberately broke down a door of his daughter’s to express his disapproval. The kid was so shocked by the incident which was completely contrary to the usual calm and methodical manner that he lived his life. He said that a father should save a reaction like that to be used rarely to make an impact. Otherwise you just lose respect

I’m big on parents supporting each other with regard to their kids.
However, the OP’s shouldn’t have spanked his 18 year old. For his own sake. I believe their relationship will suffer forever.

[Euthanasiast]

The whole " Nice Strawman" followed immediately by " You cannot be dealt with rationally because I have decided your argument is nothing but a strawman so I am outa here because your arguments are beneath my incredibly fine logic " is classic Message Board passive aggressive.

Again with the taking my posts out of context? I never expressed that. What I did express was that the only arguments I had, I already submitted. I have nothing new to say on the matter, so why bother repeating myself? I was in no way suggesting that I was above him and therefore couldn’t be bothered with answering his reply. That is clearly what I meant by being ‘tapped out’. I thought I made that perfectly clear.

Er, I’m not a logic or philosophy major, but I don’t see how “it is wrong to beat your adult child” is a strawman.

That wasn’t the strawmen in which i was referring to. These:

I’m not allowed to sock you in the face for being a bellowing jackass, and you’re not allowed to ass-kick people who get into the “8 items or fewer” line at the grocery store with 23 items, and you’re not permitted to bitch-slap the numbskull in the airplane who rushes on first even though he’s sitting in the first row and then takes twenty minutes to unsuccessfully try to stuff a huge suitcase into the overhead bin.

These are weak arguments set up to be used to knock down my points about proper discipline. Everyone knows that these statements are fact, but even the Department of Family and Children Services in my own state say that you may spank your child as long as you do not leave any marks. This is why these arguments are weak. They are not comparable because although you cannot assault (lay a finger on) people in the arguments he made, you are allowed to spank your child in the state of Georgia, provided you leave no marks. If these aren’t strawmen in this particular situation, then by all means educate me.

And before anyone chimes in with “But he must have left marks!”, forget it. I’m not arguing that. I’m just using Georgia’s stance to point out that RickJay’s arguments are unrelated, and therefore weak.

Again, is this incorrect?

[Euthanasiast]

@Euthanasiast

you are allowed to spank your child in the state of Georgia, provided you leave no marks.

I need to add that you cannot leave marks or injure a child when spanking in Georgia.

[Cheesesteak]

Euthanasiast, hate to break it to you, but those laws apply to children under the age of 18.

What is considered child abuse or neglect?
• Physical abuse is injury to a child under age
18 by a parent or caretaker which results in
bruises, welts, fractures, burns, cuts or internal
injuries.
• Neglect is the failure of the parent or
caretaker to see that a child is adequately
supervised, fed, clothed or housed.
• Sexual abuse occurs when a parent or other
adult uses a child under age 18 for sexual
stimulation

From here.
Warning .pdf file

[Indygrrl]

@Millit the Frail

–She was spanked hard enough to break the blood vessels in the spanker’s hand. That is assault, and it’s illegal, whether the victim is male, female, adult, child, whatever.

I think the situation is seriously messed up and that the girl should move the hell away from her psycho father as soon as she possibly can.

That said, I have a comment about the “breaking blood vessels” thing. I have actually spanked my kiddo and hurt my hand way worse than I hurt her little butt. I don’t know if the dad spanked through jeans (I would hope so), but damn if that doesn’t hurt your hand if you do it at the wrong angle. I’ve done that and my daughter didn’t even cry as a result of the spanking, because, really, how bad is a spanking going to hurt through a pair of jeans?

I’m not a huge advocate of spanking, but I do think it has it’s time and place. My mom and I both feel that way and we’ve both hurt our hand trying to spank a kid. And now that my daughter is 9, I feel that she’s too old for a spanking anyway. The old saying “This is going to hurt me worse than it’s going to hurt you” was literally true for us.

[RickJay]

@Euthanasiast

These are weak arguments set up to be used to knock down my points about proper discipline. Everyone knows that these statements are fact, but even the Department of Family and Children Services in my own state say that you may spank your child as long as you do not leave any marks.

Since the girl in question is not a child in accordance with the law, that’s simply not relevant.

If the girl had bene 17, it would technically be legal, though still wrong, obviously very bad parenting, and quite psycho. However, as described, it was in fact a crime.

[Scoundrel_Swanswater]

If this were my girlfriend and she had told me, you could expect me to go over there and beat the tar out of this idiot.
Physical punishment is okay with little kids and within certain limits. (Popping blood vessels in your hands? Way excessive force)
You should never punish a kid while you are this angry.
This guy stormed through a door !?!?!
This guy doesn’t deserve kids, but a nice long jailtime.

[drachillix]

Lil voice of reason checking in

Under the assumption that dad DID break through a door getting to daughter in question I would tend to think he injured himself going through the door rather than on his daughters behind.

If this is the case charges of criminal battery and needs for jail time are a bit over the top and that the spanking administered had more of a humiliation/dominance effect than doing any real physical injury.

My stepson is starting to “challenge” me physically a little bit. My standing response so far has been “When your ready to find out how hard the ground is, take your best shot.”

If he wants to learn just how tough (or not tough) he is I would much rather he learned from me than from some random stranger off the street, I won’t hurt him beyond a bruise and waking up sore, anyone else just might seriously injure him.

[Ms2001]

@drachillix

My stepson is starting to “challenge” me physically a little bit. My standing response so far has been “When your ready to find out how hard the ground is, take your best shot.”

There’s a huge difference between responding to force with force, and responding to words with force.

[RickJay]

@drachillix

If this is the case charges of criminal battery and needs for jail time are a bit over the top and that the spanking administered had more of a humiliation/dominance effect than doing any real physical injury.

It simply does not matter. We have laws against striking other people for a reason. It’s fine that the daughter in this case wasn’t seriously injured and was just “humiliated,” but when we make it okay for nutballs to go smashing through doors and hitting other people, sooner or later someone WILL get hurt.

If I punched you in the face, would I have a legitimate defense if you suffered no serious injury? What if I slapped your sister across the face? How about if I felt her up on the bus? No serious injury.

My stepson is starting to “challenge” me physically a little bit. My standing response so far has been “When your ready to find out how hard the ground is, take your best shot.”

My, what a dreadful situation. did he have these problems before you knew him?

[drachillix]

@RickJay

If I punched you in the face, would I have a legitimate defense if you suffered no serious injury? What if I slapped your sister across the face? How about if I felt her up on the bus? No serious injury.

I’m not saying its all fine and acceptable, I’m saying its nowhere near as horrific if the injuries to his hand were suffered from breaking the door, rather than hitting her hard enough to seriously damage his own hand.

A stranger smacking around your family members is a whole different ball game from corporal punishment of your own “children”.

My, what a dreadful situation. did he have these problems before you knew him?

This is all in a playful way…nobodys mad or out to hurt anyone…but I get the idea hes kinda testing the water for who is alpha male. So far its still me.

Originally Posted by mr2001
There’s a huge difference between responding to force with force, and responding to words with force.

I fully agree although application of corporal punishment to your own children for a serious behavioral issue is once again a whole different ball game. From my interpretation of the OP, it was over the top. Loads better ways to handle it. We also don’t know the exact details of the scenario. There could be ALOT we are missing here.

[Joe_Random]

@brickbacon

Why do people assume violence = stupid

Because it’s often true. There are, of course, many reason why someone would resort to violence, but very few of them reflect positively on the aggressor.

The bottom line is that punching someone in the face and saying something back to them verbally send two totally different messages.

Yeah, and the message sent by punching someone in the face is “I tend to respond to <whatever you were doing> with physical violence. If you do it again, I will punch you in the face again.” Attempting to intimidate others into obeying you via threats of physical violence is a very asshole-ish thing to do.

Of course, punching someone in the face could send a different message. Maybe “I lack the self control not to punch people who displease me.” Or perhaps “I am a violent asshole who enjoys inflicting physical pain on others.”

Notice how none of the “messages” sent by punching someone in the face reflect very well on the puncher?

[Tauri_M]

Id slap the girl’s mouth until it bleeds. Kids now think that they are talking to their friends and thinks that its acceptable to disrespect their own mothers who bore them by calling them names.
For those of you who reacted weirdly about spanking, puleaseeee,. beat up your kids! This is why there so much brats who doesn’t know sht but to bully and crave attention from wrong people and wrong places. Everything is acceptable, no boundaries, too much rights yet no single rights for parents who are being abused by their kids! BullSht!

@Rilchiam

I was recently part of a discussion in which some guy described an incident in his household. His wife and 18 y/o daughter were embroiled in an argument which culminated in Daughter saying, “You can’t tell me what to do, you BITCH!” and storming off to her room.

In a blind rage, Dad followed, broke the door down (literally), grabbed Daughter, twisted her arm behind her back and “spanked her ass until my hand was red with broken blood vessels in my palm.” Allegedly, Daughter has not defied authority since.

Well. Whew. Wow. Way to keep your cool, Dad. Now, first and foremost, I want to establish that I think anyone calling their mom a “bitch” is something to be merely shrugged off. But I’m not quite convinced that it warranted this reaction.

Someone asked, “Would you have reacted the same way if this was your 18 y/o son?” He responded that he would have, but admitted that “an 18 y/o son might have made me regret my actions.”

But what I’m getting at here is that I don’t think a daughter calling her mother a bitch is analagous to a son doing the same.

Women settle their differences with words. That’s how it is. They get their frustrations out, relieve tension, and then they’re able to come to an agreement. Daughter calling Mom a bitch was disrespectful, certainly, but OTOH, Mom might have been doing some namecalling of her own.

In fact, I think in a way, women are actually better at reining themselves in than men are. When men start to get emotional, they’re liable to just keep going until someone bigger and stronger, or someone with a badge or gun, makes them stop. Whereas when women get into a dispute, they’re more likely to recognize the point of no return, and back off from it. So when Mom and Daughter are going at it, it might be better for Dad to simply take cover and come back when the smoke has cleared.

But if a son calls his mother a bitch, that’s a different matter. See, the thing is, kids relate one way to their same-sex parent, and another way to their opposite-sex parent. There was a thread years ago in which a male poster described a dispute he’d had with his late-teenage son, during which the son decided he was going to take it to a physical level. Someone responded, “Well, he’s at the age where he’s trying to establish himself as an alpha male. Not necessarily a bad thing, as long as you make it clear to him that you are still the alpha male in your house.”

And it’s often the same thing with mothers and daughters. Late-teen girls want to be the queen bee, while mom says, “Waitaminut…I’m still the queen bee around here!” In both cases, it’s important to establish that the daughter or son still has to defer to the same-sex parent, or else move out. But I don’t think that has to be done at the price of breaking their spirit entirely.

So, getting back to a son calling his mother a bitch. I know it’s a double standard, but I really think that’s unacceptable in a way that a daugher doing the same thing is not. Again, an SDMB reference, to a thread in which someone was describling their brother’s(?) rebellious stage, around age 13. He was apparently verbally abusive to Mom…for a little while, until Dad lowered the boom, telling him, “You don’t talk to your mother that way. You don’t talk to any woman that way. And most importantly, nobody talks to my wife that way.”

What I’m trying to say here is that mother-son and father-daughter are unequal relationships. Not that mother-daughter and father-son are equal, of course, but in those cases, they have similar mindsets. So if Daughter calls Mom a bitch, that’s more like she’s saying, “I’m my own woman, not a carbon copy of you!” She may be opposed to Mom for all the wrong reasons, but Mom probably understands at some level how she feels. Whereas Son calling Mom a bitch* is unlikely to be inspired by anything except a lack of respect for women. He might feel that Dad is a threat to his individuality, but there’s no reason why Mom would be.

So am I right or wrong? Is it possible, or even desirable, for someone to get through adolescence without ever clashing with their same-sex parent? And is “bitch” really the Deplorable Word from a daughter to a mother?

*And anyway, if he’s calling his mother a bitch, what’s he saying about himself?

[Tauri_M]

Good! Now she’ll think twice of ever disrespecting her mother again!

@Eonwe

Well, you didn’t ask, but I’ll second the shock at the father’s reaction. Physically breaking the door down? Spanking his 18 year old until he hurt himself? That’s more than a bit scary.

I wouldn’t necessarially jump to that conclusion. Many folks (male and female) use ‘bitch’ when someone’s being a jerk, and that’s all it means. “That woman is a jerk.” I’d hesitate to assume that there was serious inter-gender disrespect without putting it more in context.
But, IMO, profanity towards parents is not in any way an acceptable way to express anger and frustration; I don’t know what I would do about it, but I’m sure that I’d not tear down any parts of my home.

[Tauri_M]

she’s lucky she only got smacked on the ass. She deserves a beating,.and you, learn how to use words and spell them correctly!

@Sarah_Woodruff

I think the physical violence of the father would damage his relationship with his daughter far more than the ‘bitch’ insult would damage her relationship with her mother. What I mean to say is, the girl was wrong to say that, but the father was “wronger” to smack her one for it.

[Robot_Arm]

Well, one would hope that this family has since learned to put their differences aside, talk things out, and sit down to a nice meal of brains!

[Inner_Stickler]

@Tauri_M

learn how to use words and spell them correctly!

Is this one of those “Take my advice, I’m not using it” jokes?

[Voyager]

@Robot_Arm

Well, one would hope that this family has since learned to put their differences aside, talk things out, and sit down to a nice meal of brains!

They had better. Too much slapping and various pieces of them would start coming off.

<Hint to Tauri_M - this thread is 8 years old. Nothing to see here. >