[QUOTE=Lochdale]
Has Heasrt shown any particular dislike of blacks? Any moreso than most Deadwood’s residents?
[/QUOTE]
He certainly expects black people to know their place. He’s less racist than Steve the Drunk, more racist than Jane or Bullock.
[QUOTE=Rubystreak]
He certainly expects black people to know their place. He’s less racist than Steve the Drunk, more racist than Jane or Bullock.
[/QUOTE]
Based on what? He seems no more or less racist than Al or anyone else. He saw fit to have dinner with Odell in public (invited him to dinner openly) so I don’t see where you are coming from. Hearst cares about the colour (as you keep pointing out) and it’s not the colour of skin he’s worried about.
[QUOTE=Lochdale]
Based on what
[/quote]
First: His reaction to seeing Odell in the house without his permission was quite menacing. Aunt Lou says, “Invite you now to sit down with him to eat—‘Sit across from me and have dinner, Odell.’ That before you said Gold, fire’s in his eyes you was anyplace indoors at all.”
Second: The fact that he expects to be called “Sir” by blacks and not whites, which was standard for the time, but I don’t see anyone else in town standing on that formality.
Third: After dinner with Odell, Hearst said, “That is correct. And, for your effrontery at our meal a moment ago…I’d have seen you shot or hanged without second thought. The value I gave the gold restrained me, you see…” That threat of shooting or hanging was strictly a race-based threat. For his affrontery towards a white man, esp. considering his status, Hearst would have had him lynched, if it wasn’t for the gold involved. And, um, that’s exactly what Hearst did to Odell, in the end-- had him killed. I don’t see anyone but Steve the Drunk making threats of that nature towards black men in Deadwood. Just Hearst.
I think Al would be less racist based solely on his relationship with Wu, though I think Al is very much aware of racial boundaries and will abide by them for the sake of commerce. For that matter, do we ever even see Al talking to a black person?
But I am tired of doing the Al v. Hearst argument with you, so let’s not start that again please.
Yeah, for money’s sake I think Hearst would do just about anything. But he is very aware of the subordinate status of blacks. In fact, he says to Cy, " In my dealings with people, I ought solely have to do with niggers and whites who obey me like dogs." So that’s my proof. Feel free to argue it if you must.
[QUOTE=Rubystreak]
But I am tired of doing the Al v. Hearst argument with you, so let’s not start that again please.
So that’s my proof. Feel free to argue it if you must.
[/QUOTE]
I don’t need your permission to post or debate on these boards. Please try not to be so condescending. I
see nothing in Hearst actions that make him any more or less racist than anyone else at the time. Hearst appears to hate most everyone, white or black.
Regardless, I see your point of view as narrowing the show into good versus bad when it’s anything but. Enjoy the show your way and I’ll enjoy it mine. Good luck.
The earlier debate was the first thing that ever made me skip posts in a Deadwood thread. No need to continue for my part. 
Regarding Hearst and racism, shortly after Aunt Lou arrived, I thought that Hearst might possibly be the most racially enlightened person in the camp or at least on par with Jane. After seeing more of his relations with Aunt Lou, her son, and the mine workers (I forget their nationality), I think it’s a facade or a lie to himself. It’s similar to how he keeps telling himself and others how he’s “not put here to crush my fellow men” and then continues to do just that. He’s only enlightened when it’s convenient for him and to make him feel better about himself.
[QUOTE=RogueRacer]
The earlier debate was the first thing that ever made me skip posts in a Deadwood thread. No need to continue for my part. 
Regarding Hearst and racism, shortly after Aunt Lou arrived, I thought that Hearst might possibly be the most racially enlightened person in the camp or at least on par with Jane. After seeing more of his relations with Aunt Lou, her son, and the mine workers (I forget their nationality), I think it’s a facade or a lie to himself. It’s similar to how he keeps telling himself and others how he’s “not put here to crush my fellow men” and then continues to do just that. He’s only enlightened when it’s convenient for him and to make him feel better about himself.
[/QUOTE]
I would agree. Hearst dislikes all of humankind for the most part. He makes no distinction based on colour.
[QUOTE=RogueRacer]
The earlier debate was the first thing that
[/quote]
Yeah, they were getting a little stupid, weren’t they?
They were Cornishmen, I think.
He’s a sociopath, and he creates these rationalizations out of some weird self-pity trip he’s on. I mean, he basically told Odell he’d have had him lynched, except that there was gold involved. Wow, nice guy.
It’s not a good v. evil argument. It’s Deadwood v. Outside Forces (Hearst, Yankton, Pinkertons, etc.). I happen to side with Deadwood, since, um, I’ve been watching the show for 3 seasons and I’ve come to love all the characters, even the not so nice ones.
off topic question, or maybe I just missed it a previous thread about it: Why does Cy go all psycho and track down Joanie? What was he going to do?
Cy misses Joanie… or rather misses his power over her.
That’s a good question though – whether Cy was planning to do more than just harass Joanie.
Speaking of Cy, someone at the HBO board (who works on the set) said that Powers Boothe’s daughter (Parisse, who plays Tess, a Bella Union whore) said that the crazy-mad look Cy gets is the same look Powers used on his kids. Shaped 'em right up. 
This was posted at the TWOP board today – Winnie the Pooh meets Deadwood.
It’s a hoot.
[QUOTE=Lochdale]
Hearst dislikes all of humankind for the most part. He makes no distinction based on colour.
[/QUOTE]
I mostly agree with the first part. I think he dislikes having to deal with others, to make compromises. He’s fine when they are safely under his thumb. I sort of disagree on the second part. He may see the blacks and Asians as similar to the Cornishmen (thanks Ruby) and other white laborers, but he also sees them as inferior. Maybe that agrees with your point though? Still, I think the kindness that he occasionally shows Aunt Lou (or her son) is more to make himself feel superior rather than any consideration for them. I’ve mentioned it before, but Gerald McRaney has done a great job with the role.
Cy needs Joanie, both as someone to control and as someone to run his whores.
Slightly OT, but the season finale has guest appearances by two guys from ZZ Top and one from Anthrax. I’m not sure why --maybe they’re friends of Earl Brown and John Hawkes, both of whom have bands.
There’s a Sirius satellite radio show with Deadwood actors, talking about the show and playing DJ with their favorite music.
The racism discussion is interesting. I wish I had something wise to add to it.
Steve the Drunk appeared to be the most overtly racist, but I think it was more complex than simple racism. He knew all the epithets, but I think they came from his own feelings of inferiority, and jealousy of Hostetler, a successful businessman, and respected in the community.
I wondered about Seth, in an earlier episode where he was very short with Hostetler, when Hostetler told him he was leaving and asked Seth to make an offer for the livery. But then I remembered, Seth’s short with everybody.
I like RogueRacer’s take on Hearst. He thinks everyone is inferior to him but it’s not race-based.
[QUOTE=AuntiePam]
Slightly OT, but the season finale has guest appearances by two guys from ZZ Top and one from Anthrax. I’m not sure why --maybe they’re friends of Earl Brown and John Hawkes, both of whom have bands.
[/quote]
Maybe it’s because the guys from ZZ Top and one guy from Anthrax have really long beards?
He was just such a miserable person. It seemed, before he got kicked, that he secretly liked the NG and wanted him to stay and help him. I wonder if we’re going to get any resolution on that storyline whatsoever.
Well, yeah. But he would have a black person lynched for being uppity, or at least he said he would. Maybe that was just something he said to Odell to scare him.
Well, I actually think that Hearst is racist in the show. It doesn’t seem to be quite coming out that way in my posts though. My proof really doesn’t seem to fit. It’s making me think about it more. Even having Odell lynched really doesn’t settle anything. It’s not like Hearst hasn’t had whites murdered for his own purposes.
Ruby, although I agree that Steve the Drunk secretly liked the NG, don’t forget that he needed him too. Steve didn’t know how Hostetler did his accounts and was afraid to drink and forget what was owed. That would be a miserable existence for a drunk, don’t you think?
Couple wildcards in the mix. Calamity Jane and Blaznov seem to be building up to something.
[QUOTE=RogueRacer]
Cy needs Joanie, both as someone to control and as someone to run his whores.
[/QUOTE]
I think Cy is also in love with Joanie, and he’s unable to let go despite the fact she’s made it clear many times that she wants nothing to do with him. Now Cy is acting at the emotional level of a sullen teenager and striking out at the object of his desire.
Not that I feel sorry for him.
Regarding Trixie’s bare-breasted march into Hearst’s quarters: my initial reaction was that it was a rather ingenious way to sneak a gun up to Hearst’s quarters – no (straight) man is going to notice that tiny little pocket gun when bare boobs are bouncin’ in the vicinitiy.
But her gun was small enough to be concealed in her dress. She could’ve easily gained access to Hearsts quarters fully dressed, by telling E.B. that Hearst had summoned her (a statement he likely would not have questioned, even had he not wanted to see Hearst killed as badly as Trixie).
She could have unbuttoned her dress at Hearst’s door, out of view of the other patrons, and used Hearst’s split-second of surprise to shoot him (just as she did in the episode). Her bare-breasted run down the stairs made perect sense, because she wanted to give the impression of a fleeing whore, whom the men would not suspect in the shooting (you know, because she’s just a whore).
By the way, considering how inaccurate those little belly guns were, and considering that Trixie was shooting from the hip, she was lucky to hit Hearst at all, much less in the shoulder. A few inches to the right and Hearst would’ve been a goner. In hindsight she should’ve raised the pistol and tried to shoot him point-blank in the brain or heart, but she probably feared she’d lose her surprise advantage and he’d be able to grab the gun from her hand (or slam the door) before she could pull the trigger.
Realizing Deadwood is a show and not real life, I’m guessing Trixie’s half-naked march was shown for one (or more) of the following reasons:
It was dramatic. Her bold walk down the thoroughfair was an act of suicidal heroism. The fact that she appeared exposed and vulnerable only emphasized the David vs. Goliath quality of the scene. She is just a lowly whore afterall, and Hearst is the most powerful and dangerous man in Deadwood.
Bare breasts. It wouldn’t surprise me if HBO has some kind of nipple quota in order to net in those 18-35 males (as if we need more reasons to watch Deadwood). I have to admit, the scene was… mesmerizing.
Milch was making a point about the limited power of women in the 19th century (and to some extent, modern times). Having no financial assets like Alma, Trixie’s only power over men is her sexuality, and she used it to good effect in order to strike a nearly fatal blow at Hearst.
She is, after all, a loopy fucking cunt.
Whatever the case, it was a very interesting scene.