Dealing with bright, opinionated 6 YO daughter (long, possibly opinionated).

I have a daughter who’s turning seven this fall. Where we live seven-year-olds start elementary school, and six-year-olds like my daughter go to pre-school. My daughter is very bright (she breezes through the pre-school, having been an avid reader for a couple of years now), but also has certain sides to her personality familiar to me that may come to haunt her like they haunted me.

My daughter is very self-conscious and visibly aghast of showing weakness or admitting failure in any way. The one thing in her pre-school diploma in the “Needs more practice” bracket is pencil grip. She was given a special learning pencil to work on her grip at home, but she flat out refuses to use it out of obvious fear of admitting she doesn’t know how to hold a pencil properly. When she does accomplish something, she quickly exclaims how extremely easy that was, even if moments ago she was struggling to get through. There’s no middle ground.

Unlike her 3 ½ YO brother, she never admits to bad behavior, cheating or lying, but relies on creative, convoluted excuses and stands by them to the end, even if we always encourage telling the truth within the family, in words and actions. She has strong opinions on most any matter, as if she already knew everything there is to know. Example: she sees Chinese-looking characters somewhere, and asks me if that is Chinese. I say I can’t tell if it’s Chinese or Japanese, to which she replies: “hmm…it’s Japanese, yes it is.” I’ve never heard her say: “I don’t know.”

She vehemently criticizes religion and Christianity, which surprises (and secretly amuses) me. Her mother and I are atheists but have never mocked Christianity in her presence, if for no other reason that almost all our relatives are devout Christians. She also loudly criticizes fat people, “ugly” clothing, dogs etc. – plenty of potential for awkward, alienating situations in the school yard.

I was very much like her as a kid, and things didn’t go all that smoothly. I was a straight-A student, but socially the inadvertent style of a superior, opinionated know-it-all was murder. Mom would smack me around for my commentary, peers would turn their backs. I was so afraid of failure that I ended up passing on most activities that would’ve been really good to me socially and physically, things that I’ve learned to tolerate and eventually enjoy only as an adult. As a kid I learned stuff on my own, in my own way, in my own little room.

It took me a long time to realize how little I really know, how off-putting opinionated know-it-alls are to others, and how very inferior it is to learn things on your own, with no support and no feedback. While very book-smart, it took me a ridiculous while to learn many basic things that my less-self-conscious, more sociable peers took to the natural way, by staying humble and just participating.

Even with my personal background, having little experience with six-year-olds and being somewhat socially clueless to this day, I’m at a loss as to how to breach the almost-impenetrable defenses my daughter has built around her, and how to give her keys to the humility, courage and balance that are needed for true learning and, ultimately, happiness. I hope she doesn’t have to go through everything I did, at a glacial pace. Any suggestions or perspective on how to deal with this is welcomed.

Do you or other people tell her she is smart, or praise her for being smart or doing things quickly, or anything like that?

If so, stop it.

Instead, praise her for working on things. Make her do things that she doesn’t know how to do or do well, and applaud her efforts. Not the results, the efforts.

Research is showing that telling kids they are smart creates just the sort of behaviour you are describing, and makes kids afraid to admit they don’t know / can’t do something.

Praising them for effort and work, even when unsuccessful, tends to make kids less afraid of failing and more willing to try new things, admit when they’re wrong, etc.

Nailed it. Kids emulate their parents, and the results are often unexpected. No need to wear sackcloth and ashes, just talk to her, about her and about yourself. Let her emulate your efforts to deal with problems. And also remember she has her own personality, don’t try to mold a child like she’s made of modeling clay. Be an influence not a controlling force, the latter will always backfire.

Just sharing my favorite article from a few years agoon the concept redtail23 describes.

This particular example sounds pretty common actually. My 4 year old and 8 year old do this. They aren’t lying but talking to themselves. If I ask whether they are sure that it is Japanese then they’ll tell me that they don’t know. I would punish deliberate lying to get out of trouble. I would not punish kids talking to themselves and making up a story about characters for fun.

This has nothing to do with being smart. It has everything to do with being rude and disrespectful. Kids tend to do this and their parents should be shutting them down. I’ve had many, many talks about not saying anything about someone’s appearance in public, about how she feels when someone makes fun of her etc. This is definitely something that I come down pretty hard on. If they can’t be polite then they immediately leave the premise.

Beyond that, I agree with redtail23. Your daughter will have traits from you but it is more likely that she will not completely reflect you. Don’t let your fears and concerns hold you back from seeing her as she really is. I share with her the things that I find (and found) hard. Sometimes it surprises her and it often makes her think.

Agreed with the previous.

Also, 7 is a bit old to “start” elementary school. Multiplication tables started in 2nd grade (age 7) for me. 1st grade was ±/* and even some fractions. How to hold a pencil wasn’t covered but I’m pretty sure cursive started in 2nd grade too. I’m not trying to say anything bad about your school district or your daughter but merely suggesting that you could help her tackle bigger issues in your spare time?

I was a pretty arrogant kid too but my dad would always push me a bit to help me remember that even though I was a big fish in a little pond, in the grand scheme of things there was still plenty of room for improvement. Things like figuring out how many minutes were left on road trips at a certain speed using mental math. Reading books on my own to expand my own interests (Mythology, history, dinosaurs, trivia etc). Learning an instrument.

My personal experiences say that she derives her superiority complex via her success at school, but that can be tempered by expanding her world view. After all a little learning is a dangerous thing.

Also, I’d question that thing you said about “never mocked Christianity in her presence”. Do you make snarky comments about religion or fat people or clothing choices, or etc. when you’re not in her presence?

I’d bet dollars to donuts she’s heard you. I’ve had this argument with more parents, who just have no idea where their kid got “X”, because they only say such things when they think the kids aren’t listening, are too far away to hear, or whatever. They’re wrong.

Op , are you in Finland? IIRC, kids in Finland don’t go ti school untill seven, yet the Finns do very well academically.

OP , have you looked into psychology books on fear of failure?

redtail23, TriPolar & delphica, Thanks for the comments and the link! You know, I read that article on New York Magazine back when it was published, but it didn’t come to mind now that I needed it.

I don’t think we praise our daughter’s smarts, we try to focus on the effort. I know damn well I was praised for my intelligence as a kid, and I felt miserable: terrible pressure, fear of failure, low self-esteem. Still, I’ll read the article again and think this through.

Amara_, Yes, the criticizing has nothing to do with intelligence. My OP points out that she is smart, and then goes on to issues that may come to haunt her, nothing to do with her being bright, especially in terms of emotional intelligence. We do tell her that it’s not OK and reflect on how it would feel if she was the one being called names.

Thank you for the wise words :slight_smile:

Keep the comments coming!

you and spouse could stage some interactions. each take a role and later switch so both of you are showing all aspects. show and admit flaws.

one talk about having a hard time doing something. the other say sometimes things are hard and give encouragement. the other can then thank and praise the other for the good thoughts.

have a problem you can’t solve and the other offer solutions. give thanks for these.

give thoughts on opinions about something and admit other possibilities yourself in that opinion. spouse can offer feedback.

We had a bit of this with our daughter.

You might casually mention that getting other people to do what you want is easier if they like you and trust you. So it’s not a good idea to say things that might hurt people’s feelings because it gets in the way of your future interactions with them. Bright kids can have a hard time understanding the grander moral implications of treating everyone with respect. But they can absolutely understand the selfish idea of being nice as way to manipulate people. It actually can work as a challenge: “Can you fool them into thinking you actually respect them?”

As we told our daughter: “If you can fake sincerity, you’ve got it made!”

Of course, the best way to fake sincerity is to be sincere. And the best way to fool people into believing you respect them is to actually do so. So the end game of pretending to be a good person to get your way is that you eventually internalize your “deceit” so thoroughly that you actually become a good person.

pancakes3, Everyone starts elementary school at age seven here, and my daughter is the youngest kid in her pre-school class, so no, not “a bit old”, at all. I already do what your dad did, that is, always come up with new, interesting stuff whenever my daughter implies she’s seen it all, which is quite often.

redtail23, I’ve learned the hard way that kids hear and remember everything that’s said in the house more than once :). That being said, I don’t recall ever mocking religion, fat people or clothing choices in the past six years that I’ve been a parent. There just haven’t been situations like that. I have mocked religion at work in remote locations with an atheist colleague, but truly never at home, or with anyone else in the hearing distance, for that matter.

Maastricht, no, I haven’t looked into fear-of-failure psychology. But I’m feeling it is time to.

johnpost, this might really be a good candidate for some role-playing.

The Hamster King, I really like your proven tactic, and will put it to use.

Much food for thought, so far, just as I like it.

I like what Hamster said also. I should have mentioned before that your daughter sounds a little precocious right now, and that’s nothing all that bad. She may end up being smart, savvy, and still sweet as sugar if you follow Hamster’s lead.

QFT.

I was a “smart” kid. My mother was so proud of my intelligence, she focused on it to the exclusion of any other aspect of my development. My early teachers, too. “Smart” was my identity. Failure and uncertainty were my biggest fears. If I didn’t know “the right answer” in a given situation, I no longer felt smart, and my entire sense of self was shaken. “If I’m wrong, I’m obviously not smart, and if I’m not smart, I’m nothing.” I don’t remember being as judgmental as you describe your daughter, but I definitely had some sort of superiority complex. I can easily imagine, based on my own memories of being six, your daughter’s thought process as something like:

-I’m smart. Everyone says so.
-Smart means you always get the right answers.
-Everything must have a right or wrong answer.
-I think it’s wrong to be fat, and since I’m smart, and I always know the right answers, it must be wrong to be fat.
-I’m always right, because I’m smart, and since I don’t like dogs, disliking dogs must be the right thing to do.
-I will make sure I let others know that I came to these conclusions all by myself, and they will be proud of me for being so smart and getting the correct answers.

Same thing with the avoidance of the special pencil, and the making up stories. I would have done anything to save myself the humiliation of not being 100% right 100% of the time. Because if I’m not right, then I’m wrong, wrong means stupid, and I couldn’t possibly be seen as anything but the smartest kid around, because then there would no longer be anything special about me, at all.

Of course, all this is moot if your daughter hasn’t gotten the “I’m nothing but smart” attitude that I acquired at her age. But remember, even if she’s not getting it from her parents, she may be getting it from her teachers.

Faced the same issues with my son at that age. One thing (among many) we found we had to do as parents was to be better at setting an example. We realized that we needed to do a better job of admitting we were wrong. We realized that if we’d have a minor routine disagreement that he’d see or hear any apology or admission of error was in private (or not made at all because it went without saying). We also realized we would tease each other about our mistakes without realizing he was too young to get that we were joking (usually). Honestly, I think our effort to behave more humbly and respectfully to each other helped our marriage!

I also made an effort to talk in general terms to him about behavior - getting along with people, nobody likes a know-it-all and that people who are really smart are smart enough to admit when they’re wrong sort of stuff when we weren’t in the midst of a behavior issue.

Certainly we took corrective action when necessary and oftentimes that was making him look one of us in the eye and clearly state “I was wrong”. Then it would be over – no lingering shame since that would defeat the purpose.

Good luck! There is no more disconsolate soul than an egomaniac with an inferiority complex. This I know.

Toxylon. Sorry that I made that assumption. I’ve heard it before from parents that their kid is smart and it’s so funny/cute etc when it’s just rude!

So the other part to this is that she is six. She is still learning what is appropriate to say and what is inappropriate to say. My 8 year old used to do this (more in a lack of filter between brain and mouth kind of way) and her ability to self correct has grown by leaps and bounds. I’d just be consistent on what you say and I think she’ll eventually get there. It’s quite confusing to them; we tell them to be honest and then we tell them not to be THAT honest. They are still figuring out the rules.

I’ve also done what The Hamster King says as well and framed it in context of her being a leader. I have a board with lots of quotes in her room and two that we seem to constantly quote are: “Keep your words sweet in case you have to eat them” and “Without change, there would be no butterflies.”

“Smart” has noting to do with it. There of plenty of brilliant kids with decent manners. You are tacitly, by your behavior and subtle encouragement of her worst impulses, raising a mannerless child who is going to have an extraordinarily difficult time in life unless you nip this crap in the bud right now.

People who have never developed a working social filter of when to STFU often wonder why their lives are a mess. It’s amusing right now, it’s not going to be so funny later on when she can’t judge when to keep her mouth shut at socially appropriate times and people shun her or fail to engage her.

But she’d be perfect for posting on the SDMB!

I worked for a while with a developmental psychologist who taught me to remark on what a child was doing, without attaching any value to it. So you might say: “I see that you are using red”, without saying “wow, what a beautiful drawing, how very clever of you to draw a flower so well.” Or “I noticed you did all your homework”, rather than “you are so clever for having finished all your homework already”.

At first I found it really strange to do that, but it was actually very helpful, often in totally unexpected ways. I think she explained that it makes clear that you pay attention and are interested in what they do, without always judging what they do. It says that the quality doesn’t always matter.

Obviously, sometimes the quality does matter, I realise that. But clearly she already knows that too. It was certainly helpful with many of the children I worked with. We would often use it as a way of getting children to talk: start doing some art, and instead of judging their work, just let them know that you notice them, but that you won’t judge them. It was like a weird magical way of getting children to open up.

So pretty much the same as has been said! :slight_smile: