Dealing with depressive anger

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

I don’t post much here but I’ve been following for a long time. I need advice and have nobody IRL that I can talk with. Either people who are involved or people I don’t have a close enough relationship with to discuss.

My wife is bi polar. She is taking medication and is usually very good outside of feeling anxious in social gatherings and such. Unfortunately she is in the midst of a depressive episode that is manifesting a a combination of withdrawing from the world and anger.

We have a couple we are good friends with. They live about 3 hours away and we get together several times a year and have been zoom chatting every week since the pandemic started. There was going to be a chat last Friday at 8pm. Unfortunately there was a delay. The husband had been working long hours and slept through his alarm. His wife was online but didn’t initiate the chat or reach out with a quick message. She was under stress and didn’t feel she could handle a solo chat. My wife took that as insutllting. She tried to maintain calm and gave the couple an out if they weren’t up for chatting. The wife of the other couple felt my wife was questioning friendship and reacted poorly. My wife reacted poorly to that due to underlying anger. They both blocked each other and swear the friendship is over.

I’m kind of pissed at both. My wife says I’m taking sides against her. I’ve said several times that I support her and I’ve not spoken to the couple since the incident. If she feels the friend crossed a line that we can end the friendship. I’ve also said that if she wants to maintain the relationship we can probably work at rebuilding. Of course, given that my wife is angry at the world, she just wants the other wife to get hit by a bus. I have no idea what she’ll feel when she is less angry.

I really want to reach out to the other husband to let him know that my wife is having anger issues right now and I don’t think that she really hates his wife. I also don’t want to overstep and put out a communication that speaks of my wife’s current situation as I know she would be disapproving. I’m caught between two options. I don’t want to betray my wife’s wishes by contacting him but I also don’t want them to think that we actually hate them.

I know the best path is probably not to reach out until my wife is feeling more herself but I need validation.

P. S. Depression sucks

2

So, acting as impartial as I can as a complete stranger, I’ll give my $0.02, but first, a suggestion: you may want couples counseling and your wife may want to talk to her doctor. Last first, but my wife has taken (relatively) low doses of anti-depression drugs for years. But about 6 months into COVID, along with the political issues, she was having a very hard time coping. She did end up increasing her dosage to compensate for the additional stress. This may or may not be needed for your wife, but it may be a worthwhile consideration, especially if the episodes of anger or anxiety are increasing in frequency or severity.

Second, it may not need counseling, but if you are feeling pressured by your wife when she’s in this period of anger, you do have to take steps to protect yourself - not absolutely from physical violence (unless it comes from that) but from the emotional hurt and distress it may be causing if she lashes out as part of her anger at the world and everything else. Any of us can try to tough it out if it’s rare - anyone has a bad day or two, but if it’s frequent or extended, you’re at risk of burning out your empathy or lashing out in turn in a moment of emotional exhaustion.

Okay, general commentary over, but honestly, speak to someone professional or have your wife do so as well - internet strangers are great, but I am not a doctor or therapist. :slight_smile:

So, back to specific advice. You say your wife is in the middle of an episode. Now, different people define it different ways, but from my understanding it’s been at least 5 days if it began right around the Friday in question, but could easily be longer. If it’s been longer, especially much longer, I would put more emphasis on the earlier points, because a long period implies that the issues are serious or again the medication is not up to her current levels of stress.

Given that same time frame, and concern that the longer it goes, the harder it will be to repair the relationship, I’d probably (and this is very, Very IMHO territory) try to weasel a middle ground: I’d send off a text/email to the husband and while NOT mentioning your wife’s specific issues, just say that she’s stressed right now and everyone should take a few weeks to cool off. The nice thing about that is if you say ‘everyone’, it’s an acknowledgement that perhaps all parties are too involved, rather than trying to blame the other party, or your wife.

Not a fix, but a way to mitigate the long term damage. All that said though, for me my wife comes first, and I would not give details without her direct knowledge and permission. Which I can’t see as forthcoming. And again, your wife is defensive and already claiming that you’re taking sides against her - so only share what you are comfortable with coming out one day, which may well be nothing at all.

But I’ll come back to the first point, if she’s irrational (blaming you, needing multiple reassurances that you haven’t contacted the other party, wants former friend to be hit by bus) and it’s of any appreciable duration, I strongly Strongly suggest helping her talk to her mental health care provider. This can very easily get worse, especially if there’s another underlying point of stress we’re all missing.

3

Thanks for the feedback. I’m dealing ok. It’s been about 3 weeks (of which she spent a week with these friends to get away from me for a while). We’ll make it through.

She is seeing a psychologist and has an appt on Friday. I just don’t know if she’ll bring anything up. She does keep saying she’s broken and won’t get through this. I’m doing my best to reassure her that we’ve done it before and will get through again. I do get exasperated sometimes and lash out a bit but it’s short and far between.

She’s made comments about not being able to fix this. I don’t know what “this” really refers to. When I tried to ask she got defensive. I take it as a sign she’s recognizing what’s going on and is closer to getting more settled.

I just really needed a spot to vent. I’m still not sure if I’m going to reach out to the other husband. I want them to know it’s not normal times. Your idea of a general message is good and if I do it I’ll probably go that way. They both do know of my wife’s mental health challenges.

4

I’m always surprised at how much venting helps.

I can sympathize. My wife has something that is definitely depression, but is possibly bipolar.

If this other couple is aware of your wife’s mental disease, then a gentle reminder that she’s not herself, and hopefully you will all be able to reconnect in a few weeks will be useful. However, if that goes against your wife’s explicit request, then it becomes a very hard decision. Depression brain is an asshole, and can say things it doesn’t mean, want, and will regret. Does that mean you should go against her wishes? Sometimes, yes, but other times, no. Not too helpful of advice.

If she stayed with them for a week in the midst of a depressive episode, then the blow up might also be lingering resentment from your friends. As you no doubt know, living with somebody experiencing depression is extremely stressful.

5

Venting really does help.

She has not said not to contact the husband on this but previously she’s made it clear that me speaking for her is not a good thing. I agree that it’s her depression brain that is in control right now.

My wife and the other couple’s wife have had communication issues in the past. They have different styles, both have a strong fear of rejection and manifest it differently. My wife often feels left out as the other doesn’t like to initiate communication. My wife is also a bit paranoid that she is spending more time with others and purposely putting their friendship on the back burner. There is some truth as they’ve met a local couple that lives in the same city and spend time with them but it’s not to the extent that my wife imagines.

I think some of it is due to that week. She’d previously spent a month with them last year during covid lockdowns. A lot of their differences came to light then. My wife felt ignored at times and trapped as she didn’t have a vehicle and they weren’t always available to drive her or what not. My position was that they were treating her like family. Live in the house, grab what you want, etc. She felt like an imposition (it was originally planned as a short week visit but provincial borders closed and prevented her return for a while).

I truly do believe they have a strong friendship. They are just both stubborn enough not to be the first to make a move. The other wife blocked mine on social media to try to get away from the negativity. My wife took that as a horrible insult. I don’t think it was meant to be one. Just someone trying to protect their mental health.

Blah. Just a shitty situation that I needed to type about. Hopeful things improve soon.

6

If the friends know of her struggles why does anything need to be done now? Letting it sit awhile probably won’t make any difference. Feeling disregarded/insulted at the wife not sending a short message cancelling the chat has nothing to do with your wife’s mental illness, her reaction may well have been larger than it needed to be due to her state but she is not wholly to blame here. When this episode ends your wife may well want to reach out but you doing so now would be, IMHO a very bad idea for your marriage.

Let it sit, if she expresses regret later then you can jump in and play mediator.

7

Glad the venting helps - it won’t help your wife if you get wound too tight either! And even more glad she’s checking in with the DR - even if she doesn’t want to talk to you about it in detail, talking to a doctor who approaches the issues clinically can often be easier than someone you are emotionally invested in / are invested in you.

I’ll knock on wood and cross fingers (about all I can do over the internet) and hope that the depression eases or more medical help is available, and that they recover their freindship.

8

I did let things sit. My wife seems to have moved through the anger phase and is in more of the sadness, needing comfort phase. It’s been a long 3 weeks.

She asked last night what she should do. I let her know I’d support ending the friendship if she felt she wasn’t getting what she needed out of it. I also let her know that she can also work to pick up the friendship again or reframe it somehow so she’s not feeling like this other couple is our only source of friendship.

She’s working out her feelings now. It’s a big step forward. Not sure what is going to happen next. I wouldn’t blame the other couple for dumping us totally. It’s one thing to know that someone has depression/bi-polar but a whole other thing when you are experiencing the results first hand.

9

Here is another recent thread by a husband dealing with a wife with mental health issues. You may find a kindred spirit there or some useful advice.

10

Wow. Been there; done that. In our case, it isn’t friends, but my mom. If you think it’s stressful being between your wife and your friends, imagine being stuck between your wife and your mom. And my mom is far from innocent in the conflict.

So, how did I resolve it? I’ll let you know when I get there. My mom is in her late 70s and in good health, but I sometimes find myself, to my shame and horror, hoping that Mother Nature will resolve the conflict for me. I feel like such a chicken-shit for thinking that.

11

I think this hit really hard because it’s the first time it’s affected friends. Normally interacting with friends is an experience that allows her to keep herself together. She’s had a few stressors over the last 3 years that contribute to the breakdowns. I’ve gotten a bit used to it. There will be a week here or there where nothing I do is right. I know it’s not her. I know it will end. I can make it through. This time she could be facing real consequences and losing out on a good friend. Yes, they’re aware of her mental health issues but it’s one thing to know about it. It’s quite another to have a front row seat to the full experience.

She seems to be coming back to normal. She’s writing to our friends, detailing where she was coming from, some of the triggers, etc. Hopefully the friendship is strong enough to get though this.

12

Well, more best wishes for what it’s worth. Share/vent if you want/need to. We’re a snarky bunch of nitpickers, but most of us aren’t utterly heartless. :slight_smile: