I read an article not too long ago about the person who writes under the name Abby in the paper recently told police the name and address of a man who was asking for help on how to not want to have sex with people under 18. Yes, I know this is a close call, but should she have tried to get the man counsoling or some other type of help? Now not just the people who are asking about “what should I tell my neighbor if he turns up his music too loud” will think twice about sending in questions. Now the people who really need help and those who have the same problem who read the article will not get the ideas they need to get help for themselfs. And yes, I do think it’s close. Don’t think I’m someone saying “people should be allowed to have sex with minors and tell people without getting in trouble.”
If the man had had sex with a minor, I’d say put him in jail. But why not get him help so he doesn’t just end up in jail without any real help for the mental problem?
My personal philosophy is “You do the crime, you do the time.”
But in saying that, this guy risked his freedom to ask for help. I’d consider that a genuine plea. So I hope that during his possible incarceration he is given access to some kind of help or counselling.
Did Abby overstep the line? Hard to say. I don’t know what I’d do in her situation. But she has set a precedent now, hasn’t she? Its going to be hard for her now to simply offer advice without taking action in the future, since she’s crossed the line.
I bet a lot of people will hesitate writing into her, too.
I believe this was discussed here earlier. Anyway, my thoughts on the issue depend on the contents of the letter. If the letter basically said “I’m having these thoughts and need help” I think she should have replied with something along the lines of “Go see a shrink right now and have the shrink contact me or I’ll have to call the cops”. If, on the other hand, the letter read “I’m having these thoughts and am about to act on them” she should call the cops.
Since we will, most likely, never read the letter it’s hard to judge. Also, since, IIRC, he had not acted on his thoughts I doubt he can be charged with any crime though a recent case[#1] may have set a precident for ‘thought crimes’ to be real offences.
Slee
#1. I don’t remember all the details but basically a man on parole for molesting kids wrote in a private diary about his fantasies involving kids. During a search it was found and he was prosecuted with publishing child porn or something similar. Was the guy sick? Yes. Is he a scum who should be in jail? Yes. Is his writing down sick fantasies in a private diary that was not sent-emailed-published a crime? I’m not sure about that one. I am not defending the guy but it seems that once the precident is set it seems that the thought police are the next step.
In the case of the diary from the post above, one has to remember that something doesn’t have to be a crime to be a parole or probation violation. One time I was in jail with a guy who got caught with a beer - he was of age and he wasn’t intoxicated or in public, but one of the terms of his probation was that he was not to drink alcohol.
Abby is not a therapist, doctor, psychologist, or accredited counselor. She’s a journalist. Her advice column is her thoughts on what people should do, not medically qualified advice in any sense of the word. She writes about manners and morals, not about mental illness.
Abby did the right thing, and I would do the same. There’s no privileged relationship to violate, and someone writing to her about his desire to have sex with the four and ten year old girls he babysits is dropping a problem on her that she’s in no way qualified to handle.
Abby called the police and gave them the writer’s home address. They went to the address and asked him if he wrote the letter; he said “yes”. They asked if they could search his house; he said “yes”. They found child pornography on his computer. That’s the crime with which he’s being charged.
For those who think she shouldn’t have called the police: would you feel the same if the man had molested the girls, and at his trial it was mentioned that Abby had received a letter stating his intentions, with his home address on it, and done nothing except say “get help”?
Besides, you can damn well bet that if he had molested children, and the parents found out that there was any possible way that “Abby” could have reported him early, but didn’t, she and her publishers would be sued in court for $18 Billion. And a jury would probably award them it too.
[sub]Of course, that amount would come down on appeal…maybe to $100 Million or so…[/sub]
Amen brother. There is seriously something wrong with the people in this country when a person is criticized for turning in a possible pediphile to the police. With something like that, it is better to err on the side of caution.
I have to agree with hansel. The people writing as Abby (there is more than just one now) are not therapists, doctors, or even religious leaders. I may be uncomfortable with the thought if she was his therapist, doctor, or religious leader, because we do like to keep up the semblence of privacy in this country, but she’s not.
As someone else said, people with serious problems should not be writing to her or Ann Landers.
But travelling in time to the instant “Abby” decides to drop the dime on him: Like sleestak said, we may never see the actual letter (then again, it may become part of the public record of the trial, unless he explicitly identifies any children, in which case it may be a sealed record. Doper lawyers?). Full judgement as to whether “Abby” could have taken the course of action mentioned by sleestak, would require that its content be evaluated as to whether it leads the law’s proverbial “a reasonable person” to believe that a threat was dire. (And yes, I know that in practice when the word “children” shows up, the word “reasonable” takes some serious hits. It’s the civilization we live in, gotta deal with that.) Apparently it was enough so that the police found it worth following up nicely.
Even many real “privileged” professionals are relieved of the duty to the client/patient if a real child molestation is imminent. For advice columnists and the rest of us, there’s what Anthracite said: ruinous lawsuits (and a guilty conscience) if things DO go wrong and we didn’t at least try something within our power.
OTOH, if he were clean of any actual illegal activity – no CP, no ISP logs of visits to alt. hey-pervs. here-you-go. trust-me-im-not-a-fed, no proof of his having laid a finger on any child at any time… could the Law have done anything to him just for writing a letter saying “Help me Abby, I have the hots for a 4th grader :eek: , what should I do.” ?
I did not know that the man who was arrested was writing in his diary about people he babysat, people who he would be trusted to take care of. In such a case I would agree with Abby.
When I first heard about it I thought it was just a fantasy of the man with no specific people chosen to be part of his fantasys. Had I known there were unknowing people already chosen by the man to be victims I would have started this thread in praise of Abby. Please note my change of opinion thanks to the input of you fellow dopers.
To pump the “imminent danger” quotient up a little bit, the writer clearly stated that he was having thoughts of molesting the daughters of his girlfriend, children to whom he had unfettered access. They either lived together or were about to, and he was certainly with the girls for several hours each day.
Considering the turn-around time between when the letter was written and when it was actually put into the hands of Abby, (actually it’s the original Abby’s daughter who writes under the name with consultation from her mother) it was very possible that by the time she found herself reading the letter, the writer had already acted on his unnatural desires. He made it clear, he had means, he had motivation, it was only a very tender and fraying mental thread that was keeping him from taking the final step. In such a situation, I can’t imagine who wouldn’t have acted in whatever way possible to intervene on behalf of this guy’s intended victims - and for Abby, in another city with nothing but an address, calling the police was the only thing she could do to act to protect the kids. I give her massive credit for being willing to get involved.