If you’re calling up 26 times in one day, starting half a working day after applying, in response to an ad that says “no calls”, then yes, I think I know why you’re not hearing anything for weeks on end.
My understanding of the ‘no calls’ clause is that it refers only to initial applications: ie, that prospective employees are to submit a resume and/or application LETTER and that phone calls will not be taken to apply for the position advertised. It does NOT mean that the prospect cannot call about the progress of their application.
I think the OP is being snotty, and like Airman, I feel that your attitude sucks dingo-dongers. Just answer the fucking phone fer’ chrissakes.
Oh, and:
It’s averse btw. :rolleyes:
Seriously? A call every 10 minutes, for two hours? You don’t think that’s even a little ridiculous? I mean, I know we thrive on being Contrarianism Central around here, but I just can’t fathom people thinking someone is being snotty for not wanting to be bombarded with calls when they specifically asked not to be. Hell, even if somebody had said “call me whenever you like” I’d be embarrassed to call them 26 times in half a day.
If you’ve had a bad experience with snotty HR people, pit them. But come on, the behaviour described in the OP is just preposterous.
Yes the individual in question is ridiculous. That doesn’t change the fact that Airman Doors is totally correct about the attitude displayed by the OP, and other similar employers, regarding unsuccesful candidates. (wo)Man up, and give them a call for Og’s sake.
This “notion” exists out there that agressiveness and persistence is one of the keys to getting a job. Perhaps this person even got the idea, “don’t leave a message. Make sure you talk to someone there.”
These things that sound good in a “career counselor”'s office (whose only job ever is probably career counseling) don’t necessarily translate to the real world.
As “wrong” as this may sound to some people, people do get hired with well put-together resumes and competent interviews.
If you met a girl in a bar, would you call her every 5 minutes until she picked up, or just call and leave a message? Especially, in the era of caller ID?
And, employers do not owe a call to applicants that they are refusing. They don’t do this. The sooner applicants realize this, the better.
What attitude? The attitude of “give me more than half a day to look over your damn resume and then don’t bombard me with phone calls?” The attitude of “I’m trying to run a business here, one in which I don’t have time to take lunch and instead eat in meetings?”
A resume followed by a follow up call after two days or so is reasonable. A resume followed by a follow up call within less than half a business day - followed by 26 more calls?
He wasn’t waiting for “weeks on end”. He didn’t even wait long enough for his resume to hit mys desk. At the time he started calling, NO ONE had the chance to even glance at it. He submitted his resume the afternoon of the previous business day. At the very least, allow one full bsiness day to pass before calling every 5 minutes.
No, we really meant “no calls”, but I understand that people will probably leave either a voicemail or send an email to verify that their resume has arrived. No one would have talked to you, the call would have been annoying, but if the message was courteous and articulate, displaying good communication skills, that wouldn’t seen as a terrible thing.
Again, may I underscore he called 26 times in a single afternoon, without leaving a single message. That’s not quite the same thing as taking an educated risk after weighing what all the career counselors have told you.
Thanks for the correction, asshole. After typing “ad” so many times, I’m horrified that I typoed the word into anoher one. (Geez, have nou noticed my typing on the board or is it just now that you noticed I type like shit.)
What attitude? The OP wasn’t avoiding him, she was in a bloody meeting. He hadn’t even been rejected, for “Og’s sake”. The potential employer had had his CV for six working hours. If someone bothered me that much, in that short a space of time, you bet your life I’d be calling them; to tell them that I’d shredded their CV and that next time they should try and have more patience than a hyperactive toddler on crack.
I’ve had just as bad experiences with shit HR departments as any of you, I’m sure, but I just can’t fathom why anyone thinks the OP is the bad guy in all of this. It smacks of projection, frankly.
Well, here I disagree. If you solicit applications, it’s only polite to let people know if they’ve been successful. Unsolicited applications, perhaps not.
Can I have at least ONE business day to have a chance to even look at the submissions?
Plus, there job board has a little box employers can check to notify students “only candidates selected for interview will be contacted for interview” that is a hint right there about whether or not to freak out if no one calls. Again not all businesses have a dedicated HR staff that can contact every single one of 500+ applicants. We don’t have the staff to do that. That’s one of the reason we are hiring.
Anyone we contact about he position, whether for additional screening or to schedule an interview, will absolutely be called back when the position is filled.
Is it really so hard to see that calling more than 20 times in a single afternoon is not apporpriate if you haven’t given your potential a single day to look things over?
:: ahem:: “He”, but don’t worry, I know I type with a girly tone. In all honestly, by the end of the meeting after we had set my telephone to “do not disturb” I can honestly say I was avoiding taking his call at that point, because I would have been very angry and probably would have told him off in all sorts of unprofessional language.
I figured I’d wait for his first call today to more calmly tell him that his has been disqualified as a contender.
I’m actually assuming that this is exactly what has happened. A university career counselor or booklet is informing students that they have a much greater chance of success if they can speak to a real human being. This is why we still get calls.
But I doubt any career counselor would be boneheaded enough to tell anyone to call every 5 minutes.
That’s a great analogy. This kid has gone from “potential candidate” to “should we talk to security?” in only a couple hours.
I would expand that rule a little. I think if an employer contacts an applicant, they should contact them again to turn them down.
There are different numbers there. Out of the 500 odd resumes we got (for a couple different positions). I’ll probably only call back 10 people for additional screening. I’ll be damn sure to call the other 9 when the position is filled.
I agree about unsolicited applications – if they show up, call them if you want them, don’t bother to call if you don’t.
If you’re actively hiring for a specific position, though, I think it would be very nice of a company to let people know once they’re no longer being considered. The company I work for now does this. Nothing fancy, not even a phone call-- but we only take applications and resumes online, and there’s a nifty feature that shows you the status of your app. It ranges from “resume submitted” to “in consideration” to “no longer being considered” to “not qualified for this position” to “selected for an interview”… etc. etc.
I mean, you could even go the simplest route-- require email addresses with resumes if they want a response, and send a BCC’d “sorry, but we are no longer considering you for this position” form letter when you knock em out.
</mini rant>
I’ve been in your position, Swallowed My Cellphone, so I know how you feel. I don’t get the people who have anything to say but, “dude, what the hell?” Because that’s how I would be tempted to answer the phone when that jackass called for about the 3rd time. Look on the bright side: at least you know now, instead of accidentally hiring this fucktwat. He’s done you a big favor with this psychostalker bit. You should call to thank him for disqualifying himself.
Actually, now that I’ve had the chance to calm down and no longer wish to break his dialing finger, I do fully intend to have an honest chat with him on the phone. Remember, this kid is a student who is just about to graduate from university. He’s probably starting his “career search”. It would probably be more helpful for him and maybe nice for the next employer he wants to call 5,000 times, if he got a little more detailed feedback, so he can understand why “follow-up”=“usually good” and “stalking”=“usually bad”.
Airman Doors, USAF, I totally understand your frustration, and believe me, I don’t leave people hanging if we have contacted them with additional questions or a mini-phone interview, or if they have been referred to us by a business contact.
But please undertand that for the initial wave of applications, there can be hundreds of applications and answering each and every one of that initial deluge may not be feasible. Employers may receive hand-written resumes stained with food, resumes that border on illiteracy, the neurosurgeon applying for the student web design position, or the web design student applying for the position of Chief of Neurosurgery. Many are so inappropriate, that they’ll go straight to the trash bin. It’s not always possible or within company means to spend the time and resources to call back everyone who happened to see an ad. It’s way too broad.
Once an employer contacts you, I think it’s fair to follow-up and there is a duty to do so, I totally agree with you there. If they call you back and express an interest than they should let you know if the position is filled so you don’t waste your time and resources.
shrug To each his own, I suppose.
Think of it this way. Imagine you own a small business ina big urban center. You have a grand total of three employees. An ad for a summer student to help out generates 500 responses. How would you answer all of them without sacrificing 30% of your workforce for a couple days?
As I suggested. In your ad, explain that if the student wants a response either way, he/she must include an email address. Take 5 minutes to write up a “thank you for applying, but at this time, we are no longer considering your application” or whatever fits.
As you weed out each applicant, add their emails to a list. When you’re done, open an email, copy the form letter, BCC, and off it goes.
I’m definitely doing that from now on.
Swallowed, what sort of industry are you in, out of curiosity?
I’m glad you’re helping out this poor, confused kid. I can be pretty judgmental sometimes, missing underlying issues like that. (We’re doing behavior/listening profiles at work, so I’m in self-evaluative mode right now).
If I put in ad in saying that I am seeking an experienced brain surgeon and I receive resumes from file clerks and street sweepers, it is my obligation to call them?
I am going to assume if they can’t read, maybe they can’t figure out the telephone either.
Shit man, I am a software engineer and after being out of college for seven years I couldn’t possibly give you the textbook answer to that question. I can use arrays, among other data structures, but if you’re looking for the kind of answer that would’ve been on my Introduction to Data Structures midterm in 1997, you’re crazy.
I suppose it’s difficult to convey a knowledge of programming in an interview. After college, stuff you can look up is no stuff that you retain in photographic memory, and a lot of it becomes needless to actually writing code. So how do you demonstrate that you’re a good coder? Well, code samples would probably work, except that generally those are proprietary to your employer and you can’t go showing them to anyone. Coding tests? Anything that can be done in an interview isn’t going to be deep enough to show development skills…
But I do agree that someone who has been interviewed should be contacted and informed of the status of their candidacy, from ‘We would like to offer you a position.’ to ‘We would like to interview you again.’ to ‘We have decided to go another route.’
Leaving someone hanging is inconsiderate. How frigging hard is it to send them a rejection form letter anyway?
For the OP, well, maybe it’s the parents calling. I just read an article from an old USA Today where more and more parents are getting involved like that.