Dear Applicant, just ONE follow-up call is enough!

The BBQ Pit
41

[QUOTE=atomicbadgerrace]
As you weed out each applicant, add their emails to a list. When you’re done, open an email, copy the form letter, BCC, and off it goes.
[/QUOTE]
This is pretty much what I do.

My above post was to explain that it really isn’t always feasible for some employers to contact all applicants. Certainly my old company couldn’t ever. They were mostly a factory and had very minimal office staff. They could get a thousand applications for one of their unskilled labor jobs, and with virtually no office staff, there wasn’t anyone who could follow up with the 999 rejections in a reasonably timely and cost-effective way. Many of their applicants did not own computers, so no email.

The shift supervisor would skim through job applications, then call back a handful for further screening. The best they could do was sent back a form letter to applicants who sent in self-addressed stamped envelopes. But stuff a thousand envelopes, postage etc.? They’d have to hire a temp just to deal with all the applications for the temp position. :smiley:

ETA: And holy crap! If a few hundred people called about the position or phoned in to follow-up, it would make a huge mess because phone lines would be so bogged down without enough people to answer.

I’m lucky enough that a) the position required emailed submissions only, b) due to timing (schedule of the school year) we’ll probably get a mangeable number, and c) we actually have the right kind of communications infrastructure to do so.

Really Not All That Bright: marketing, we work with a lot of non-profits. It’s easy enough for me to use our marketing sofware to contact all applicants, although right now my department has four people doing the work of six (seven if you count the student we’re supposed to have but don’t). Each department has to take care of its own hiring, so right now there is just me to deal with the entire stack.

The applications we’re setting aside are the ones that have the best cover letters.

42

Swallowed My Cellphone, you’re being unreasonable and bitchy. The kid is obviously just trying to get someone live on the phone. After that, it would probably be a less than 30-second conversation. You’re being a jackass by KNOWING it’s the guy calling because he wants to speak to someone and make a good impression and you’re laughing at the phone as it rings and just letting him dangle. For god’s sake, just pick up, DO YOUR JOB, and end the charade. How does he know you have caller ID? For all he knows, the receptionist at the company is distracted and no one’s answering the phone.

And what, he’s supposed to leave a message? And how does he know he’s leaving a message for the right person? He’s not going to leave a message for SOMEONE TO CALL HIM BACK. No one calls someone back to confirm they received their resume. That’s something the applicant calls for, not expects the company to do. IMHO, it would be rude to leave a message asking for a confirmation call.

Finally, what is so wrong with the idea that he wants to PHYSICALLY talk to someone to confirm that his resume made it? There’s nothing unreasonable about that! Oh, but it is, because you’re too busy to spend less than a minute on the phone telling a college student that yes, you received his resume, and you’ll be giving him a call back if he fits the criteria? Fuck you.

I’ve been in the position to hire, and dealing with applicants sucks, but it’s unprofessional to just blow them off because they can’t read your mind. And answer your goddamn phone, you’re a place of business. People like you should have your caller-ID mechanisms revoked if you’re going to use them like this.

The kid’s lucky, actually- if you’re going to show this amount of disdain for potential employees, then I can’t imagine that it’s a great environment to work in.

43

[QUOTE=NightRabbit]
I’ve been in the position to hire, and dealing with applicants sucks, but it’s unprofessional to just blow them off because they can’t read your mind.
[/QUOTE]

They’re not expecting applicants to read their minds, they’re expecting applicants to read the job posting that explicitly says “no calls”. If that’s not the way the applicant would like to do things- that’s tough for him. A lot of applying for, getting, and keeping a job is sucking it up and doing what your boss or prospective boss asks you to do, even if it’s not what you would like to do.

But could it possibly be ruder and more disruptive than calling back every five minutes? I doubt it.

44

[QUOTE=catsix]
Shit man, I am a software engineer and after being out of college for seven years I couldn’t possibly give you the textbook answer to that question. I can use arrays, among other data structures, but if you’re looking for the kind of answer that would’ve been on my Introduction to Data Structures midterm in 1997, you’re crazy.
[/QUOTE]
Did Morbo say he expected a textbook definition? You must be able to explain in plain English what an array is, right?

No shit, Sherlock. But don’t you think that after, oh, maybe the tenth unanswered call in under two hours you might conclude that perhaps the person you’re calling has a good reason not to answer? Might you not mentally connect the fact that they asked you not to call, and the fact that your calls are not succeeding?

The OP was in a meeting for the first two hours of calls. He (sorry 'bout that, Cellphone :)) couldn’t take the call. And frankly, after 13 calls in that space of time I wouldn’t have wanted to take it for the rest of the day either. Unreasonable? Bitchy? The guy called twenty-six times in an afternoon. What the hell is wrong with you that you think that’s even remotely normal?

45

NightRabbit, I’d agree with you if this person had called once or twice, but the kid called 26 times in 4 hours. That’s more than a call every 10 minutes, and it was within 1 business day of submitting his resume. Admittedly this person may be inexperienced and may not realize how many responses the person he’s sending the resume has to screen, but I do think his actions were unreasonable.

Here’s what I’ve done when I’ve received 150 resumes for one job. As they come in, I’ve entered them into an Act! database putting in their addresses and a rough rating of their resumes. When the boss decided which people he wanted to interview, I used Act! to prepare a form letter and send it to the 90% of the applicants we weren’t interested in hiring. When he made a final decision, I also sent a letter to the other candidates. It’s not perfect – I’ve told the story about the guy who called me up and yelled at me over the phone because we didn’t hire him – but it worked well enough.

46

[QUOTE=Siege]
NightRabbit, I’d agree with you if this person had called once or twice, but the kid called 26 times in 4 hours. That’s more than a call every 10 minutes, and it was within 1 business day of submitting his resume. Admittedly this person may be inexperienced and may not realize how many responses the person he’s sending the resume has to screen, but I do think his actions were unreasonable.
[/QUOTE]

WRONG. Businesses answer their phones. If I called a place of business and no one picked up, I’d think, someone’s away from their desk, or the receptionist is incompetent, or they have no receptionist. I’ll try calling back in a bit. Really, how does he know you’re sitting at your desk, looking at the caller ID, telepathing “go away, stop calling”?? The LAST thing I assume, when I’m calling a BUSINESS, is that someone is staring at the phone without picking up.

To just NOT answer the phone is a horrible, rude, and ridiculous business practice. ESPECIALLY if it’s the main line. Doesn’t that place have a receptionist?

47

[QUOTE=NightRabbit]
WRONG. Businesses answer their phones. If I called a place of business and no one picked up, I’d think, someone’s away from their desk, or the receptionist is incompetent, or they have no receptionist. I’ll try calling back in a bit. Really, how does he know you’re sitting at your desk, looking at the caller ID, telepathing “go away, stop calling”?? The LAST thing I assume, when I’m calling a BUSINESS, is that someone is staring at the phone without picking up.

To just NOT answer the phone is a horrible, rude, and ridiculous business practice. ESPECIALLY if it’s the main line. Doesn’t that place have a receptionist?
[/QUOTE]

And if I call a business and get transferred to voicemail, I LEAVE A MESSAGE and then WAIT A REASONABLE AMOUNT OF TIME (like a few hours, not five minutes) before calling again. Maybe, as in the OP’s case, the person I’m calling is in a meeting, or is not in that day and there isn’t anyone monitoring their phone calls.

48

[QUOTE=NightRabbit]
If I called a place of business and no one picked up, I’d think, someone’s away from their desk, or the receptionist is incompetent, or they have no receptionist. I’ll try calling back in a bit.
[/QUOTE]
Every ten minutes? For an entire afternoon? That’s fucking nuts.

Being a wee bit dramatic, aren’t we? They asked applicants not to call, for fuck’s sake. Do you need a diagram drawn? Or maybe you sympathise with the caller because you can’t read either:

Yep, three people giving up their lunch because it’s the only time they had to meet definitely should have dropped everything so Twitchy Fingers doesn’t have to cry himself to sleep.

There are some serious rejection issues knocking around in this thread.

49

[QUOTE=LurkMeister]
And if I call a business and get transferred to voicemail, I LEAVE A MESSAGE and then WAIT A REASONABLE AMOUNT OF TIME (like a few hours, not five minutes) before calling again. Maybe, as in the OP’s case, the person I’m calling is in a meeting, or is not in that day and there isn’t anyone monitoring their phone calls.
[/QUOTE]

If they’re not in, then there’s no harm to calling and seeing if anyone picks up! The idea that no one is answering and yet sitting right there is absurd. She’s purposefully avoiding the kid’s calls and getting bitchy when he’s persistent and doesn’t want to give up. In many applicant situations, persistence will get you the job. The phone calls will end as soon as she takes the 30 seconds to respond. Yet, she’d rather not, save herself the 30 seconds, and waste at least 50 times that on writing the OP. If your time is so stretched, sweetie, how about staying off the messageboards during business hours?

50

[QUOTE=NightRabbit]
You’re being a jackass by KNOWING it’s the guy calling because he wants to speak to someone and make a good impression and you’re laughing at the phone as it rings and just letting him dangle.
[/quote]

Pay attention now: Despite a request for “no calls”, kid was calling every five minutes during a meeting with the VP and we really couldn’t interrupt that particular meeting. He called while I was out of the office. He called during meetings via conference call. He called while I was on other business calls on the other line.

This does not leave a good impression. Not at all.

By the time I could answer, I was ready to kill him!

Much better to wait until I’ve cooled down than to answer the phone screaming, unless you think it would be approriate to pick up the fun yelling “What the fuck do you think you’re doing???”

[QUOTE=NightRabbit]
And what, he’s supposed to leave a message? And how does he know he’s leaving a message for the right person?
[/quote]
If he is calling the wrong extension, and keeps hanging up on voicemail, he’s doing himself no favors in that respect now, is he?

If he’s calling the wrong extension, don’t you think it might be helpful to leave a message, so that his call can be redirected? Do you think a recipient of that many wrong numbers and 26 hang-up messages would be happy with that arrangement upon returning to the office?

He talked to the receptionist, got my direct line, and that’s what he called 26 times yesterday (mostly while I was away from my desk).

[QUOTE=NightRabbit]
He’s not going to leave a message for SOMEONE TO CALL HIM BACK.
[/quote]
Why the hell not? Isn’t that why most people leave messages? I thought that was the whole point of voicemail: to leave a message so someone calls you back. At the very least, why not just leave a message stating your purpose? Even if you have the wrong extension, at least then your message can be forwarded to the correct party. Instead, he left 26 useless hang-ups on voicemail that provided no useful information.

Think common sense here. If someone doesn’t answer the phone after the first half hour of calling every 5 minutes, a reasonable person will assume they are away from their desk (it was the lunch hour after all), or assume they are indisposed.

If you really must defy a “do not call” request, then call a reasonable number of times at different times during the day. Call once in the morning, once in the afternoon. Leave a message to be sure your call is reaching the right person/extension.

[QUOTE=NightRabbit]
No one calls someone back to confirm they received their resume. That’s something the applicant calls for, not expects the company to do. IMHO, it would be rude to leave a message asking for a confirmation call.
[/quote]
Hang on, you’re telling me that when a nervous applicant leaves a message saying: “This is John Doe calling. I submitted my resume via fax and wanted to be sure it had arrived completely, as I’m very interested in the oppportunity with your company.” You think it’s rude for them to do so? WTF?

[QUOTE=NightRabbit]
Finally, what is so wrong with the idea that he wants to PHYSICALLY talk to someone to confirm that his resume made it? There’s nothing unreasonable about that!
[/quote]
There is nothing unreasonable about that (other than that applicants were instructed NOT to do so). In fact, you’re told your chances of success are much better if you have a live person on the line. But literally calling every 5 minutes is very, definitely unreasonable, disruptive, and really fucking annoying.

During our meeting when no one could take his call, he called every 4.6 minutes for an hour and a half. Do you not see where he crossed the line from “eager” to “imbalanced”?

[QUOTE=NightRabbit]
Fuck you.
[/quote]
You know, I was going to send “fuck you” right back, but you weren’t here and couldn’t asses the situation, the meetings, or the fact that I couldn’t take his calls.

But if he had left even ONE message, I would have been able to get back to him before the end of the day. Instead, I was enraged by the continual interruptions (the VP was pissed and the director was pissed) and by the time I sorted out who he was, he had compleltely guaranteed he will never be employed by this company, ever.

[QUOTE=NightRabbit]
And answer your goddamn phone, you’re a place of business.
[/QUOTE]
Right, and my business requires me to prioritize my tasks.

When the VP is standing in front of me, talking to me, in my office, the next call that comes in will most definitely go to voicemail. No question about it. If I’m on the phone with my boss, who is calling from the airport, the next call to come it is going to voicemail too. If I’m on a business call on the other line, sorry, but your call will probably go to voicemail unless there is a really good opportunity to put the other caller on hold.

All he had to do was call once and leave a message.

51

[QUOTE=NightRabbit]
If they’re not in, then there’s no harm to calling and seeing if anyone picks up!
[/QUOTE]

Yes, yes there is. In a cubicle-style system, the people sitting near the ringing phone will be calling for the head of the annoying person who thinks that phoning every 10 minutes is A-OK. And no, I would not pick up the phone of a colleague if it was ringing incessantly, though I might look for the ringer volume control - we do different jobs and I would be completely unable to answer any questions directed towards a colleague, and vice versa.

52

[QUOTE=NightRabbit]
If they’re not in, then there’s no harm to calling and seeing if anyone picks up! The idea that no one is answering and yet sitting right there is absurd. She’s purposefully avoiding the kid’s calls and getting bitchy when he’s persistent and doesn’t want to give up.
[/QUOTE]

There’s a line between being persistent and being a pain in the ass.

This guy is so far over it, the distance would need to be measured in light-years.

When you’re applying for a job, you don’t want to look like someone who expects your every desire to be met right now. You don’t want to look like someone who is going to insist that the business change its ways of doing things to suit you, or change things to the way you think things should be done. This is especially true if you are applying for a very junior position like this guy was. Calling every five minutes and refusing to leave a voicemail makes you look like that sort of person.

53

[QUOTE=Swallowed My Cellphone]

But if he had left even ONE message, I would have been able to get back to him before the end of the day. Instead, I was enraged by the continual interruptions (the VP was pissed and the director was pissed) and by the time I sorted out who he was, he had compleltely guaranteed he will never be employed by this company, ever.

[/QUOTE]

I would never expect a hiring manager to call me back. They are TOO BUSY.

Meanwhile, it’s not his fault you had a meeting at your desk with a phone you can’t turn off. Isn’t that what conference rooms are for? Seems like you’re blaming the kid for doing nothing but showing some enthusiasm and persistence. Shame on you!

54

Whatever happened to the standard rejection letter as well? I know you have several hundred applicants, but I bothered to apply for the job, at least I could get a courteous “get-lost” letter. It’s not like you are a monk and have to hand-scribe every letter.

I like these companies that give you an automated email up front about how terribly busy they are and that you won’t get a response unless they are interested. Thank you! You just took your name off of the list right up front. If they are going to be dickheads from moment ONE, what would working for them be like?

55

[QUOTE=Anne Neville]
There’s a line between being persistent and being a pain in the ass.
[/QUOTE]

I have had two long periods of unemployment where I would call and leave messages to make sure my resume was received. NO ONE EVER HAS CALLED ME BACK. You may as well be leaving voicemessages to shadows. I will not leave messages to HR for the rest of my existence. IMHO, the kid is smart to be calling, and it’s really rude of SmC to be treating it like he’s doing something unreasonable.

56

[QUOTE=NightRabbit]
To just NOT answer the phone is a horrible, rude, and ridiculous business practice. ESPECIALLY if it’s the main line. Doesn’t that place have a receptionist?
[/QUOTE]
Clarification: The main line is always answered within three rings. Once he got past the receptionist he got my extension and was calling my office directly.

I like “enthusiam” just fine. Calling every 5 minutes and leaving hang-ups is certainly “persistent”, but not in a good way, particularly when he ignored specific instructions not to do so. Can you imagine what would happen if ALL applicants did that?

ETA:

Well, I’m not an HR department. I would have called you back, or sent you an email.

Good luck with that.

57

[QUOTE=Swallowed My Cellphone]
Can you imagine what would happen if ALL applicants did that?
[/QUOTE]

If you had a competent receptionist, she would have forwarded the call to your line instead of giving him your direct number. Then, when he kept calling back, she could have stemmed it. This is what receptionists are for! You need to have a talk with her instead of blaming the kid.

And you should be so lucky to have such a slew of people so interested in working for you that they call back every 10 minutes HOPING to spend 30 seconds on the phone with you.

58

[QUOTE=NightRabbit]
Seems like you’re blaming the kid for doing nothing but showing some enthusiasm and persistence.
[/QUOTE]
Okay, be honest now: you’re having a laugh with us here. No-one could seriously be this obtuse without getting a back injury.

59

[QUOTE=NightRabbit]
WRONG. Businesses answer their phones. If I called a place of business and no one picked up, I’d think, someone’s away from their desk, or the receptionist is incompetent, or they have no receptionist.
[/QUOTE]

Hey, guess what? If it’s a small place of business (say, oh, three employees, which happens to match up with my experience), everyone may well be too busy to answer the phone, oh I dunno, maybe because there’s work to do? Especially if you’re calling a direct line and not the main one.

And ya know what? I also like talking to an actual person. That doesn’t mean I call up every ring five ring minutes ring when I don’t ring get an answer. I assume the person is either busy ring or out of the office, and can probably ring be expected to not be free within the next ring five minutes.

Unless it’s an emergency, GIVE THE PERSON SOME TIME. Odds are good that whatever is causing them to not be able to pick up the phone will not end in that short a period.

60

[QUOTE=NightRabbit]
If you had a competent receptionist, she would have forwarded the call to your line instead of giving him your direct number. Then, when he kept calling back, she could have stemmed it. This is what receptionists are for! You need to have a talk with her instead of blaming the kid.
[/QUOTE]
When you get voicemail, the system gives your extension number before it goes to your outgoing message. She did her job exactly right.

Um… your posts are getting a little weird.

As mentioned above, we will be contacting all applicants when the position is filled.

But this caller is following-up without even a single business day to have passed for his application to have been processed. At the time he started calling, his resume had not been reviewed yet. No one’s had.