God, even give the receptionist the kid’s number and say, she’s in a meeting, we wanted to let you know we received your resume, blah blah blah.
Plus, you haven’t answered the question as to why, if you’re too busy to respond to the one applicant who cares enough to keep calling, you’ve got enough time to devote to this thread.
[QUOTE=NightRabbit]
God, even give the receptionist the kid’s number and say, she’s in a meeting, we wanted to let you know we received your resume, blah blah blah.
Plus, you haven’t answered the question as to why, if you’re too busy to respond to the one applicant who cares enough to keep calling, you’ve got enough time to devote to this thread.
[/QUOTE]
Oh, for the love of Pete! How many times have I got to say it? Firstly, “he” not “she”.
As for how I contributed to the thread: yesterday’s schedule is radically different from today’s. Amazing isn’t it? That a person’s schedule can be unpredicatable and varied?
Yesterday was nuts and I had to come back to the office until 9pm. Today, now that various crises have been taken care of, I actually have time to do stuff, including call him back! ::shock, awe:: He was in class, so. what did I do? I left a message! ::shock, awe::
Hell, if he’d called today he probably would have reached me on the very first try.
But you know what? It doesn’t actually matter that much why I couldn’t answer my phone. The result would have been the same if I had been away on holiday yesterday and not in the office at all. Bottom-line, in a four hour time span, this kid left 26 hang-ups because he was calling over and over like a little psycho.
Don’t you understand that? Regardless of why I didn’t asnwer the phone, he painted himself as someone who is overzelous to the point where we think there is something seriosuly wrong with him.
Seriously, Rabbit think about it. What if I had been away from the office all day?
If I had been on holiday yesterday the kid would still have left 26 hangs ups. The phone system still would have shown he was calling every 4.6 minutes for an hour and a half. We would still totally think he’s a bit deranged. And we still would have decided “There is no way in hell this weirdo is ever setting foot in this office.”
The caller’s experience of the whole thing would have been exactly the same. And the end result would have been the same: I think he’s too off-kilter to be employed here, and the VP thinks he is a “disturbed individual who doesn’t sound employable”.
So go ahead and think I’m an asshole, but if he had been calling someone who was out for the day, it would have worked out the same.
[QUOTE=catsix]
Shit man, I am a software engineer and after being out of college for seven years I couldn’t possibly give you the textbook answer to that question. I can use arrays, among other data structures, but if you’re looking for the kind of answer that would’ve been on my Introduction to Data Structures midterm in 1997, you’re crazy.
I suppose it’s difficult to convey a knowledge of programming in an interview. After college, stuff you can look up is no stuff that you retain in photographic memory, and a lot of it becomes needless to actually writing code. So how do you demonstrate that you’re a good coder? Well, code samples would probably work, except that generally those are proprietary to your employer and you can’t go showing them to anyone. Coding tests? Anything that can be done in an interview isn’t going to be deep enough to show development skills…
[/QUOTE]
Well, in 15 years of hiring for my team I’ve found it’s not difficult for most people to convey knowledge in my interviews and I’ve had a pretty good success ratio with good hires. Anything in the realm of possibility I would have accepted. He kept repeating “variable” in his answer where it didn’t belong. Believe me, it went downhill from there. I’m talking an experienced hire in major software development for a rather large software corporation - there’s no way in hell he should have been trying for it - he knew nothing. He didn’t even work for who he said he worked for. I thought briefly that I was being Punk’d.
[QUOTE=jtgain]
I like these companies that give you an automated email up front about how terribly busy they are and that you won’t get a response unless they are interested. Thank you! You just took your name off of the list right up front. If they are going to be dickheads from moment ONE, what would working for them be like?
[/QUOTE]
See, I’d be okay with this. It’s a response – they let you know they received your application.
I’m with the OP – no calls means no calls. It’s not that hard to understand.
[QUOTE=chorpler]
Could you share the pathetic attempt at double-speak in response to the “What’s an array” question?
[/QUOTE]
It’s what you shout after “ip ip”.
[QUOTE=Scissorjack]
It’s what you shout after “ip ip”.
[/QUOTE]
Heh. I might’ve hired him if he said that.
[QUOTE=Morbo]
Heh. I might’ve hired him if he said that.
[/QUOTE]
You’re ired!
Psycho-boy is a salesman. That’s the way he’s wired.
If your firm needs a sales guy he would probably be a good one. Otherwise tell him your competitor is hiring.
A simple solution would be an IVR option stating “If you are calling to check the status of an employment application you submitted, press 5!”
“5” would, of course, lead directly to hold Limbo, where they would be treated to an endlessly-repeating snatch of phonic ipecac (I highly recommend any of the works of Kenny G) punctuated by occasional earnest assurances of the incalculable importance of their call and the speed with which it will be addressed–all of which would continue forever, or until they give up, lose their minds completely, drop dead, et cetera.
[QUOTE=NightRabbit]
Meanwhile, it’s not his fault you had a meeting at your desk with a phone you can’t turn off. Isn’t that what conference rooms are for?
[/QUOTE]
Wait, wait, I missed this the first go round…
You’re suggesting that my office is not an approriate place to meet with my boss.
:dubious:
Okay, ha, ha, very funny, you got me. I thought a few of your responses were a little weird, but that level of wingnuttery tells me you’re playing a game.
[QUOTE=Swallowed My Cellphone]
Yesterday was nuts and I had to come back to the office until 9pm. Today, now that various crises have been taken care of, I actually have time to do stuff, including call him back! ::shock, awe:: He was in class, so. what did I do? I left a message! ::shock, awe::
[/QUOTE]
Goddammit, you’re so fucking rude! Don’t you know you’re suppposed to show enthusiam and determination! So what if he has a class-doesn’t he know he’s supposed to pick up the phone right away?
(And as someone pointed this out, had this been a potential date, this type of behavior is called “stalking”. One wonders what he’d do if a client couldn’t come to the phone.)
[QUOTE=Swallowed My Cellphone]
No, we really meant “no calls”, but I understand that people will probably leave either a voicemail or send an email to verify that their resume has arrived. No one would have talked to you, the call would have been annoying, but if the message was courteous and articulate, displaying good communication skills, that wouldn’t seen as a terrible thing.
[/QUOTE]
Ah. But what I was saying/asking was, you said that a single phone call and message might’ve put this person ON THE TOP OF THE LIST. So given that, why should anyone pay attention to “no phone calls,” especially yours, if obeying would be to their detriment, and ignoring it would benefit their chances of getting the job so much?
Even with what you said above, might the chance of leaving a good impression have outweighed the annoyance factor? If so, why should anyone have taken the “no calls” thing seriously?
[QUOTE=Swallowed My Cellphone]
Wait, wait, I missed this the first go round…
You’re suggesting that my office is not an approriate place to meet with my boss.
:dubious:
Okay, ha, ha, very funny, you got me. I thought a few of your responses were a little weird, but that level of wingnuttery tells me you’re playing a game.
[/QUOTE]
If your phone has the potential to be THAT disruptive, then I don’t see how it’s a BAD idea to go somewhere else. 
[QUOTE=NightRabbit]
If your phone has the potential to be THAT disruptive, then I don’t see how it’s a BAD idea to go somewhere else.
[/QUOTE]
Maybe his phone doesn’t normally ring every six minutes. I was at my desk all day today - I answered three phone calls. Two of three of them were started by a chat message “do you have time to talk?” I can have long conversations at my desk. I can write documentation at my desk. I can (unless the person in the cube to me is yelling at her coworkers on the phone) have deep thoughts at my desk.
A business is not in business to answer phones. They are in business to make money (most businesses - non profits have other goals). Answering every application with a phone call is polite, but in a overworked office, is not a value add in terms of revenue generation. In some cases, answering the phone is part of the money making process - but that is not universal and is certainly not true for all employees. Most of my calls are not revenue generating related - the vast majority of mine come from salespeople trying to sell me something I’m not interested in. Know what? I don’t call them back - wastes their time and mine (salespeople take any response as an encouraging sign)
[QUOTE=Leaper]
Ah. But what I was saying/asking was, you said that a single phone call and message might’ve put this person ON THE TOP OF THE LIST. So given that, why should anyone pay attention to “no phone calls,” especially yours, if obeying would be to their detriment, and ignoring it would benefit their chances of getting the job so much?
[/QUOTE]
Actually, I kind of muddled that up when I originally mentioned it.
I should not have said that a follow-up call “could have bumped him to the top of the list” because that’s inaccurate and I retract it. We’re selecting our candidates, in addition to good cover letters and qualifications, if they are good on the phone, it will be helpful (that’s more what I meant).
But it’s really, really better to wait until we can call them, because then we will have the time they deserve from us, and they will have a better opportunity to present themselves well. No matter how well-spoken they may be, if we have to hurry them off the phone, it wouldn’t be giving them a fair shake.
Someone calling specifically to verify their submission was recieved, would not have that one call held against them for ignoring the “no calls” request. If they called to apply for the position over the phone, that would kill their chances.
Follow-up: I mentioned yesterday that I called him back. I’d left a messsage with his brother (or roommate, but I got the impression he still lives with his family) that I wanted to speak with him. I think the brother/roommate was screening calls for the guy in my OP because he sounded worried and asked: “Oh… Was he calling you yesterday?”
When I asked him to have the misguided kid call me back today (at a specific time that his brother/roommate said he would be available) he seemed surprised that I wanted him to call me again, and sounded so worried that I actually felt compelled to add: “We’re not angry with him.”
He did not call me back. I wonder if he had a couple different job applications on the go and was using the same technique with everyone. Maybe someone else blew a gasket and screamed at him.
[QUOTE=Dangerosa]
Maybe his phone doesn’t normally ring every six minutes. I was at my desk all day today - I answered three phone calls.
[/QUOTE]
That would be my normal call volume for external incoming calls.
And as mentioned plenty enough times in this thread, my phone has a “do not disturb” feature that sends calls directly to voicemail. The phone won’t ring and will only make the alert “chirpy-boop” if someone leaves a message of some minimum length. I certainly NEVER get a voicemail every 5 minutes, so using the “do not disturb” function under all normal and reasonable circumstances results in a very quiet phone.
That’s something I also found a little odd: he was waiting through the “Hello, you’ve reach Swallowed at…” message, then I’d hear maybe two seconds of breathing and he’d hang-up. Those silent messages were just long enough to cause the “chirpy-boops”.
Most hang-ups get recorded as “hang-ups”, but not as “messages” because people usually hang-up before my outgoing message is done. Eventually he started hanging-up faster, and then my phone was silent. So I’d initially tought he’d stopped calling after about 16 calls, until my message system showed 10 more hang-ups from his number.
[QUOTE=Morbo]
Did you really think you could LIE about your experience and no one would find out? That you could FAKE your way past the interview process? That your pathetic attempt at double-speak at my most softball question (What’s an Array?) would work? Then what? FAKE your way through your assignments once hired? Write FAKE code that doesn’t work and check it in?
[/QUOTE]
The strategy is get hired and tread water, burning time by complaining about how the process is completely different from the textbook industry-standard methods they supposedly used at their last job. After about 6 months, they’ve figured out whether they can continue bluffing in place. If not, they’ve at least learned what an array is, and they can start sending out resumes entitled “experience software professionnal”.
Don’t laugh (or cry). I know people who have launched and sustained significant career arcs in this very manner.
Or he only applied to your job, but has OCD. Or his brother was with him and kept saying, “Dude! Stop the hell calling them!”
[QUOTE=susan]
Or he only applied to your job, but has OCD.
[/QUOTE]
Funny you should say that. I did actually consider OCD which is why called him back I left the message asking him to call and chat instead of just sending a “cease and desist” email. Just in case there was a good reason why he has poor impulse control.