Yes, it is a significant event to me. I was raised with massive exposure to the Kennedys (and England. I suppose the “why the hell do we care that Diana died?” threads will start on 8/31).
Have you ever heard that old Chinese proverb “To know the road ahead, ask those coming back.”
It just irks me that the tone of this thread is - whatever, I wasn’t born yet, who gives a shit…
I wasn’t alive when the attack on Pearl Harbor occured, but I know what December 7 means.
Get off the high horse. There’s nothing wrong with recognizing the 40th anniversary of a slain president. Period.
Oh hold on a damn minute. Over Two Thousand living human beings died at the WTC, and more in Washington DC and a lonely field in Pennsylvania. I can understand that in your day it might have been shocking, but you’ve had 40 years to get used to it. I’m already at peace with 9/11, not to mention Columbia and Challenger.
**
I’m not out to convince you. I don’t care about how you feel, to be blunt. You can worship the man for all I care, can bow five times a day to his grave in Arlington if you like. You can’t convince me, and lord knows the Media is trying it’s damnedest, to have any feeling other than total disgust when I hear the name “Kennedy”.
I have a very firm grip. I understand he’s history and gone forever. I just wish we didnt’ have to go over this crap every year. I’m tired of people trying to impress it upon me. The planet has gone on, and there are fresh things to cover. Hell, the history channel was made for stuff like this, why should Big Media waste time on it? (I know it’s for the cash, and to con viewers into watching it and validing the cash they’re charging for ads.)
Please… just keep him to yourself? I don’t want to hear about him or his accursed family anymore.
Sorry, man…you’re in the minority. Otherwise, the History Channel wouldn’t be running that show. What precise problem do you have with changing the channel?
You will hear about JFK’s assassination until the day you die. And that’s a fact, Saint Zero.
I am a mother to 2 boys and consider it my duty to educate them as to our past. Where we’ve been, how blacks couldn’t drink from the same fountain as whites - yes, I want them to know our history, the good and the bad. They will understand that 11/22/63 was a dark day for the nation.
Broomstick, please notice that I began my response with your quotation because I felt that it summarized the complaints of most of the previous posters – not because I had a bone to pick with you personally. So my comments were addressed to all who had expressed exaggeration and frustration and bewilderment and even boredom. I did not intend to imply that you in particular had all of the feelings or thoughts that I was addressing. Notice that my comment about LOTR and The Matrix refers to “the younger generations” (plural).
And that seems to me to be the wise way to handle the problem since neither of us is in control of programming.
I didn’t gloss over it. I thought that it went without saying that this event was a closer comparison. But even that had its differences. It is not part of my memory but I did ask my parents about their memories of it and I listened because I knew it mattered and shaped their lives. (I love history and I know that not everyone is that way.) But I know that I can never really know what it was like. My first memory was of the day the war was over.
I very much appreciate your telling me not only what you feel, but also what you think. Your insights are well thought out in my own opinion.
Yes, many of us Boomers think the world revolves around us. (Some historians include those of us born in 1943 and others start in 1945. I am definitely more like the boomers that “the silent generation.” ;)) There were and are so many of us and we have had it so good. I can see why that would be tiresome.
I was watching Band of Brothers last week for the first time and just started crying. What struck me was the courage of ordinary men – in this case, the G.I. generation. It got to me to realize that these were the young men I had known growing up and had taken so for granted. It finally “got through to me” even though I had known the facts all of my life.
The years have brought so many revelations about President Kennedy’s personal life and I am glad to see him demythologized. He had feet of clay after all. He used women and cheated on Jackie and I find that really shallow. From what I have read, after they lost their third child, their marriage changed for the better and they were close. I’m glad for that.
He had Mafia ties connections. I don’t know to what extent they were used. He didn’t take enough initiative in Civil Rights until prodded by RFK. He relied too heavily of the advice of the military and the Bay of Pigs was the result. That was awful. Historians would have a longer list, I’m sure.
On the other hand, he did accept full responsibility for the tragedy that was the Bay of Pigs and he learned to be more questioning of military advisors. And that’s why we were able to avoid an all out nuclear war in October of 1962. There is no way of thinking of it as anything but saving the earth from almost certain destruction. (Aside to Airman: I would say that counts a whole lot!)
He established the Peace Corps (which for a decades was hugely productive in “teaching others how to fish.”) I don’t know what its status is today.
He authorized the Green Berets. (Now that gives me mixed feelings!)
He was a Pulitizer Prize winner author and a war hero. His swiming for miles with one of his men in tow was what gave him a bad back. We didn’t know about the Addison’s Disease while he was in office or how much medication he took to keep him going. But no one would doubt the alertness of his mind or his quick wit. He was smart and savy. There was an unmistakable charisma about him. All of the aspects of his life that we knew about at the time were endearing. He was a very popular President.
But he was far from the best President. And there are many teachers of History 101 who would admit that.
You and I seem to agree quite a bit about him. The first deaths in Vietnam came before his Presidency and the first combat troops were after his assassination. He did have plans to bring the military advisors home by 1965. I think that the world would have been a better place had he lived. But no one knows.
You are offended by the media saying you have to watch their programing? Who? You said yourself that you are capable of turning it off! Who has said that you don’t care? You in particular? No one is an authority on your feelings but you. Are you offended by people saying that you will never really understand what it was like? Or are you offended by knowing that you won’t really know? I’m just asking for clarification. There are many things that Boomers will never really know either. And one of them is what it’s like to be a part of your generation. I envy you for what you will see of the future that I won’t. (I’m just too curious!) There is not much we can do about what we can never know. So I choose not to be offended by it.
I agree – especially on the evening news, CNN, HLN and MSNBC. I fear we are in for more on MJ than we are the war in the ME in the coming year.
What do you consider the milestones and turning points for your generation – and which generation is that? (I know people who are in their mid-forties who say that LOTR is the best film ever so that isn’t really confined to one generation so much.)
Again, let me reassure you that my first post was addressed to a group, not to you personally. I just felt that your comments covered all bases well.
Broomstick, I didn’t notice what year you were born either. There is a lot of information in the thread and not all of it gets associated with a name.
You are the age of my children! Well, my step-children, anyway.
You might find the book Generations interesting. It’s general premise is that the characteristics of four sets of generations rotate through an eighty year cycle – with approximately twenty years to each generation. Your generation would have characteristics in common with the Beat Generation that I associate with the likes of Ernest Hemingway and the ex-pats in Paris in the 1920’s and early1930’s. It makes for some good reading.
I don’t mean to go completely overboard with these generalizations, but I do sense a sort of angst and restlessness in your generation.
Sure, saving the world counts. But the fact is that we were put in that position because of his incompetence. The whole Cuban Missile Crisis was a test of JFK, plain and simple. Kruschchev wanted to see exactly how far he could go. And Kennedy only passed the test because he had a cheat sheet.
Incidentally, the CMC happened 14 years before I was born. It’s a very interesting historical event, but had it happened I would never have known about it, so truthfully it doesn’t make any difference to me.
I am a boomer, born smack in the middle of the generation. I remember where I was when I heard about JFK being killed, and I remember my parents watching TV coverage of the funeral and everything connected with it. Having said that, I’m sick and tired of the obsession. Commemorate the day if you want to. Mention it on the news. It was important, although much more, I think, for the fact of a presidential assassination than whose death it was. Whoever said it was more about the “office of the Presidency” than about the man himself, had a point. (I’m sure my parents wouldn’t have gotten themselves in a twist over the death of John Kennedy the man.) But, please, can we get to the point that this is history, not current events?! Explore the theories, look at his presidency, whatever you want to do, just don’t try to make it current news for the whole week.
Of course it’s relevant, but so are a lot of historical events, and we don’t rehash them every year for days on end.
“Coming up: a new view on Paul Revere’s ride. Film at 11!”
Personally, I think it would be more helpful historically to look at the ways in which people responded. The whole idea that the President was that vulnerable was a real shocker to a lot of people.
When somebody asks me “What were you doing when Kennedy got shot?”, I always tell them that I was probably soiling myself, because I was only 4 months old then.
My question to those older than me is this. On the day Kennedy got shot, did the media spend hours and hours reporting, but saying nothing? I remember when Reagan got shot, and the news reported nonstop for hours, even though they knew hardly anything. Did this happen back in the '60s?
Zoe, I was born about 13 months after Kennedy’s assassination, on the cusp of the Baby Boom/Generation X. I know this was important to you, but dear God, I’m sick of hearing about it, too! All my life I’ve heard about the Golden Age of Camelot. My first political memories are of Watergate. I’m afraid I don’t believe in Golden Ages. I turned on my favorite talk radio host on Friday, one of the rare liberal ones, and the talk was all “I was _____ when Kennedy was shot.” I asked my parents that question, years ago. They don’t know and it wasn’t as big a deal as it’s made out to be. They were living in England at the time, and I gather they think of it as one of these American oddities such as repressive attitudes toward drinking and gambling or the fuss when Diana was killed (the strongest reactions to that which I’ve encountered have been from Amercans).
Forty years ago, your generation lost a dream. I’m sorry. My generation never had one. By the time we came along, the good fights were fought and, as I heard about another steel mill shutting down on what seemed like every day when I was in high school, the good jobs were lost. I heard about the idealism of the Baby Boomers; when I was at the age when idealism was supposed to be at it’s peak, the mantra was “Greed is good.”
I am sorry for your loss, but it is not mine. True, if Kennedy had lived, Watergate might not have happened and the face of American politics might have been radically different. On the other hand, couldn’t that be said of every president who lived?
I’ll also point out one thing with regard to your references to Pearl Harbor and September 11th. Those two events led directly to the United States going to war. Kennedy’s death didn’t. I have a couple of close friends who are of an age to remember Kennedy’s death, and I will ask them how they felt about it, but right now, without that additional information, I can’t see the consequences of Kennedy’s death being as severe.
Experience does shape attitude, and our different experiences have shaped ours, so, for a change, I wind up disagreeing with you and agreeing with NaSultainne!? Oh well, I suppose even the more unlikely things happen sooner or later.
I am SOOOOoooo glad someone started this thread. I was just about to.
It’s been 40 freaking years. Let it go already. If you haven’t found out what “really happened” by now, do you all (those who are so obsessed) really think you’re going to?
I know it’s a very unpopular POV, but I’ve never been all that impressed by the Kennedys or “Camelot” as it is. I never thought that Jackie O was “so phenomenal”.
She was a snappy dresser and played the debutante part well. So she got a job after the tragedy, so she raised her kids “on her own”.
Big woop. So do millions of other Americans (male and female) when faced with the deaths or departure of their spouses. Most of the other Americans do so without the support of family money or a family name.
You think any other young single mother could have waltzed in and landed a prestigious job at a magazine the way our tragic first lady did? Not to mention, did she really need the job?
And as for the rest, blahblahblah, about as much substance as wet cardboard. Not even the drunk is remotely interesting. Except for Arnie’s wife, my GOD woman, eat something!!! There is no way I’ll believe that that is normal.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Lord Ashtar * Yeah, that’s an overly simplistic view of the American Revolution, but dammit so is everyone’s memory of JFK. Everyone only remembers the good stuff. Most of the Boomers conveniently forget that he cheated on his wife and all the stuff about the Cuban Missile Crisis that Airman Doors so eloquently spoke of.
[quote]
Not everyone’s memory. Maybe it’s because of the whole “closest thing we had to royalty” and the “beautiful young wife and her handsome prince tragedy” crap that has everyone else so awed or something, but those of us who feel otherwise don’t often make our POV known. It could be dangerous.
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Maybe we should all unite? Form our own group and protest this nonsense?
PS, re: the debate between some of those in this thread. I am a boomer also. And even though I am one, I certainly am sick of the over the top coverage as well. So this isn’t really a “your generation’s defining moments vs. Mine” thing IMHO.
I can certainly see having a respectful memorial/tribute each year. But I think what the OP was trying to rant about was the "starting the conspiracy coverage a week before, and running the same programs over and over on 4 or 5 channels.
I saw the same sort of “get over it” feelings when they did the 9/11 memorial shows. Even though that’s only a couple of years old, people still got tired of the same information replayed 50,000 times over during the “Week of Remembrance” or whatever.
I don’t think it’s so much that people are saying that it’s not worth remembering and honoring his service to his country and his death, but that what’s going on is far beyond that, it’s severe overkill. (pun not intended).
And as others here mentioned. It’s not as if these folks were anything all that “special” or different from any of our other presidents and politicians.
Kennedy was just like a bunch of other presidents, including Clinton. He made mistakes, he cheated on his wife, he had some shady connections. The difference is that the things he did, he didn’t get caught. At least not then. And/or at least it wasn’t publicized.
Yes, but there’s this little problem when I turn on the TV in the morning to get the traffic and weather updates before going to work and instead get to see that goddamned image of blainsplatter. I don’t think the people endlessly re-running that image understand that to many younger folks that IS their image of JFK - someone who’s most notiable moment in life was getting shot in the head. Which is a total misrepresentation of any murder victim. (How about a shot of him doing something other than dying?) OK, so I don’t get weather and traffic on TV - I turn on the radio. One commercial after another about this conspiracy special and that program on death. Turn off the radio, look on the Internet for the information I want/need about the weather - do I have to leave early to get around a traffic jam or wear my rain slicker or take my sunglasses? - and it’s one fucking pop-up ad after another, PLENTY of stills of Mr. I’m-About-To-Die.
THAT’s what I mean by “ubiquitous”. I can’t get away from it, even when I try. I’m trying to get the information I need to get on with my day and it’s being shoved in my face everywhere I look.
The only coverage I’ve been happy with is what’s been in my local newspaper: Front page every day is what’s happening in the world. Back page is the day’s weather forecast. Discreet item in the index on page one: “JFK Anniversary Coverage Page # to #” No pictures of gore, nice synopsis of his accomplishments, information on the assasination, all easily accessible for those who want to read it. In fact, the week-long series has been used by our local schools as part of their history curriculum.
Yes, the Zapruder film IS important and I’m very glad we have that historical document. However, some things do not need to be viewed every day. I’ve seen very graphic photos of A-bomb casualties from Hiroshima and Nagasaki - people whose faces look like jack-o-lanterns, people with their skin melted off, people with the pattern of their kimono fabric branded into their skin - and while I’m very glad I’ve seen those, I’m also very glad that I don’t have them shoved down my throat once a year. Likewise, I’ve seen the pictures of people jumping out of the WTC, some of them on fire. I’m glad I saw that because it’s history and it’s the truth. I’m also glad I don’t have to see that every day. And yes, I do find JFK getting headshot every bit as gruesome as the rest of the pictures I mentioned. The Kennedy-gets-shot picture is just about the only gory image we see that is NOT regularly proceeded by a warning that something brutal is coming up. Why is that?
I think perhaps it’s the arrogance of some of the boomers that pisses off other people - both younger AND older. Zoe, I don’t think YOU fit into that category but we’ve certainly seen some of it in this thread. I’m not offended by not having had the experience of being there. What I do get offended by - and this has happened to me for as long as I can remember - is the attitude of “you will NEVER understand” or that I am somehow less a person for not wanting to glorify a murder or a man who, although possessing some good qualities, was no more and no less perfect than all the rest of us. Why should the media bombard us continually with this every year? Especially, as I have said, the gory parts. The whole attitude that my generation is less because we haven’t had a “defining moment” (didn’t someone in this thread from Dallas say that?). The attitude that if it’s Boomer it’s important and if it’s not Boomer it’s irrelevant and always will be. Of course it’s not a universal sentiment - Boomers are as diverse as anyone else - but there really is that attitude out there. And those that hold it can’t seem to understand why someone almost 40 years old is sick to death of being told “you’re too young to understand”.
I will say one thing about this thread - it has made me realize WHY I get so bent out of shape by this yearly event. It really is the obessing about death and the continual showing of that horrible moment that gets to me. Yes, my video collection does get a work-out this time of year. Goddammit, I SHOULD be able to get the traffic and weather without this being rammed down my throat. Maybe the coverage isn’t so obessive elsewhere, but around here it IS excessive. Cripes, last night the weather guy took time out of talking about the present to talk about the weather in Dallas on THAT DAY. That’s excessive.
Partly it’s the media masturbating again. But I think part of it is escapism - you can only take some many images of blown up buildings and bodies. I wish they’d escape to something more wholesome and relevant to the rest of us. I mean, yes, MJ being brought up on child molestation charges is news and it’s important on a certain level as is any crime but it doesn’t warrant hours-long coverage.
Speaking from MY point of view – I don’t think my generation even has a label. I’m not a Boomer - just missed that - and I’m not Generation X, or part of the Boomlet. In our label-happy society having no label at all means you’re so invisible as to border on the non-existant. That alone speaks volumes. The media finds us so irrelevant they don’t even realize we exist.
But defining moments… let’s see. I remember Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin on the moon and THAT was important to me. Nixon resigning during the Watergate scandal was my true introduction to politics, which might account for my heavy cynicism and general low opinion of politicians in general. There was the Isreal/Egyptian peace treaty which I don’t think gets enough recognition (and for which Anwar Sadat paid with his life). Yes, the space shuttle Challenger was quite significant - it was our first experience at the “where were you when tragedy X happened” and it did help us understand the collective experience of shock that occurred during such things as the JFK assassination or Pearl Harbor.
How about the Fall of the Berlin Wall? Now THAT was an amazing thing, even from afar. For someone who had lived their entire life under the shadow of the cold war having that hated symbol come down really did feel like a new day was dawning.
Funny, though, how most of what I just mentioned were NOT tragedies, and even the one that was, was an accident and not a crime. Personally, I am glad my childhood saw the end of Vietnam and not the beginning, I am happy that the evening news was not full of good people being assassinated or people rioting in the streets. How sad for the Boomers that they did have to have that part of their growing up.
It’s rather like women who came of age in the 50’s and 60’s who had to battle some really strong, institutionalized sexism in order to get careers - or even just jobs - and financial independence and respect and so forth. They get upset when one of today’s 18 year old girls just doesn’t understand what it was like when it was not only legal but expected and seen as right that a woman doing the same work as a man should be paid less. We do have to teach those girls their history - but the fact they DON’T have a gut-level understanding is actually a sign of victory. Those older women sacrificed and struggled to change things so the following generations wouldn’t have to suffer as they did. Getting upset because the youngsters now see women flying combat aircraft, working as doctors and lawyers and sitting on the Supreme Court as perfectly right and natural is petty and wrong.
A lot of the student protests and civil unrest in the 1960’s was to change the world for the better. Well, to some extent the effort succeeded. The world still isn’t perfect, but your generation ended a war so my generation wouldn’t have to worry about dying in a rice paddy for no damn good reason when we turned 18. It is now inconceivable to most young folks that black people couldn’t sit down and eat next to white people, that cross-racial marriages used to be an actual crime in some places. Rather petty, don’t you think, for some to look down on us because we didn’t experience the level of grief and tragedy the Boomers had to?
Why exactly does my generation need a media-contrived or politically driven “defining moment”? I tend to make my defining moments personal, rather than let others tell me what they are.
The atrocity of 9/11 far outweighs any negative event that has happened in my life. JFK’s assassination is about as important to me as Garfield’s*. Some day I will be able to write about how 9/11 changed something in me and made me a much worse person than I already was.
[sub]* I knew he should never have turned his back to eat his lasagne…et tu, Odie?[/sub]
Well, I’m not a native Dallasite*, but I’ve lived in the area (off and on) for 10 years total. I have loads of friends who were born and raised in Dallas. We still don’t have an interest rehashing topic yearly.
I haven’t even been to the memorial in Dallas. Nor the book depository. That doesn’t mean that I am being disrespectful, I’m just not interested.
It seems that people (that this is important to) fail to grasp this:
We, the younger generations, understand that a president was assassinated. We understand the trauma it put the nation in. We simply fail to grasp why having respect for a historical event must equate with having to revisit the topic and the various conspiracy theories every year.
This event happened 40 years ago. This means that you can have people from the approximate age of 42 on down to whom the topic means nothing to. It’s not just teenagers, you know.
I’m just tired of the general patronizing additude toward Gen Xers (and the generation between us and the boomers).
*Blonde, I say this jokingly:
I get the point already. You’re from Dallas.
Typical for an old person: constantly repeating themselves…
That was really something! Someone mentioned “the best concert” earlier. At least in a symbolic way, the Pink Floyd concert at the scene may have been the best ever.
I was teaching my first class the summer of the moon landing. The night before the landing, I had my students over for a “virgin moon” party.
We danced on table tops at the post office when the war in Vietnam was over and celebrated on the town again when Nixon finally resigned.
I had been back from my honeymoon only a few days when Challenger exploded.
These things don’t really belong to just one generation but to everyone who remembers. Then one day only the history books remember. The irony about getting older is that the more history you have, the more it seems just like the day before yesterday that it all happened.
The most easily understandable complaint in this thread is the media coverage. There used to be some good programs about the President’s young adulthood that were worthwhile. Something about his life would be a better tribute anyway. That’s not unreasonable at all. And it need not be on every night for a week.
There have been some who have posted to this thread who have wanted other dopers to avoid any discussion related to the Kennedys regardless of what we might be feeling or whether or not it is a part of our personal history. Some admit freely that they don’t care how we feel but they want us to be more considerate of them. snicker.
Siege, you know that you are so okay with me that you can get away with absolutely anything!
CanvasShoes, you were right about the Lincoln. Someone caught that earlier in the thread. I remember seeing “Continental” on the car somewhere. If I remember correctly, the car was redone and continued to be used by Presidents for a long time.
So you’re all bent out of shape because of the excessive media coverage of the JFK assassination? Guess what. It’s the 40TH ANNIVERSARY!!! That’s why there is so much coverage this year. It’s one of those milestone anniversaries, where extra attention is given. Expect to see the same thing (probably more so) in November 2013. And you will see the same thing occur in September 2011, 2021, 2031, 2041, etc. Prepare yourself. But rest assured, next November’s coverage will be way more low key. Probably nothing more than a brief mention on your local and national news. I’m a native Dallasite (native Mesquiter, actually). Most years, that’s typically all the coverage we get, and it’s the biggest event to ever happen here!
The History Channel, however, will continue to run it’s annual week-long marathon of conspiracy theory documentaries. Not much we can do about that.
Now, as to why the media feel the need to devote so much time this event. This was the moment broadcast journalism came of age! The extensive coverage is more about journalists patting themselves on the back than about the Kennedy myth.
Finally, why this event still garners so much interest from the commonfolk is because there are many who are unsatisfied with the answers that Warren Commission gave for the many “unanswered questions”. Why do so many people in Dealey Plaza claim to have heard four shots? Why did so many people run towards the Grassy Knoll? Was there something there? What did Oswald mean when he said he was “a patsy”? Could the “magic bullet” really have travelled through both the President’s and the Governor’s bodies only to end up on a gurney at Parkland Hospital in pristine condition? And all the other “unanswered question”. This was an event when people realized, “Hey! Maybe we can’t trust everything the government tells us!”
A bit rambling, I know. So to sum it all up:
40th Anniversary = extensive media coverage
Self-congratulating journalists = extensive media coverage
Cynical view of our government = extensive media coverage
Reading is indeed fundamental. See this quote on the first page?
Sure looks like someone’s saying that we need one. But then my post wasn’t addressing you or them directly or indirectly anyhow, their post only brought to mind something related that I felt like commenting on generally. You can tell I’m not addressing someone specifically in this thread by me not using the
[QUOTE**]
tag. If you have difficulty with using the [QUOT**E] tag, the FAQ link at the top of the page will assist you.
If you want to grind a personal axe with me, or are just trolling for a fight for some bizarre reason, then tough shit.
