This is just an opinion ,since I really have no direct experience in what you are looking for, but I did have the same problems in having a resume that would get looked at.
Since you need the job now , your probably overlooking the fact that you have at minimum a lifetime degree, as opposed to a limited skill set that may be outsourced or obsoleted within ten years forcing you to retrain and re-enter the job market at least several times in your joblife span.
One avenue that I did not see you research was the military. I’d say that part of your immediate problem is that the economy at present is at least contracting and forcing companies to go with a more multi-track individual who maybe required to wear several hats. The military may not be for you for various reasons but I do think that you at least should at least see whats on offer before settling down with a temp agency.
There’s a reason that engineering students are getting multiple job offers at +$60,000 per year right out of school and liberal arts students are scrambling to find jobs that might pay $25,000 if they are lucky. Maybe you can figure it out.
One of my daughters is a civil engineering major. Totally surprised me because I thought that she would take her artistic talent and do something else. She explained to me this way. “She Said, Dad, with an engineering degree I can work for a couple of years and put myself through art school if I choose. And with a background in materials and structures I can build some big ass sculptures.”
Never tell me what to do with my money or my children. That will earn you a hearty “Go Fuck Yourself!”
Just because I refuse to baby-sit your ego you have to attack my logic. I never said that people couldn’t do well in the world with any degree or even no degree.
There are many incoming freshman out there who mistakenly believe that getting any college degree will set them up for a job straight out of school. The OP may have been one of them. If somebody had bothered to tell him that placement for medical technicians, math and science teachers, engineers and business majors was much higher than sociology majors he might just have a well paying job right now that he could use to fund his interest in getting a second degree in sociology for his own enjoyment.
This conversation just gave me a great idea. I’m going to develop a “College of Ice Cream Eating”. We can give out a Bachelor of Arts in Ice Cream Taste-ology.
After four years we could give our students a degree and send them out into the world to fulfill all of the Ice Cream Taster jobs that await them.
Or we can smack them upside the head with a dose of reality and tell them that, while their studies here may have helped them develop some useful skills, their chances of actually filling a working position that requires a degreed ice cream taster are extremely limited.
I agree with this. Right now, you’re just out of school and that’s the most important/impressive thing on your resume. It goes first. Then work (in reverse chronological order). Get rid of the references altogether. (Keep them handy and ready to send to anyone who asks, talk to them every so often so that they remember you and know you’re still looking for work, but don’t put them on the resume.)
BTW, I also have the reverse letter degree thing. It ends up being a talking point at interviews, but it’s never really been a problem.
As to health insurance, here, there is low cost health insurance offered in conjunction with the state for a fairly low amount/month if you have a fairly low income. I have no idea if the same exists in Georgia, but it is worth looking into. It may make temping or two part time jobs and insurance a possibility.
Is sociology something you enjoyed so you majored in it so you could find some fulfillment in your college experience or is it truly your passion? If it is just something you did to get through school I recommend signing up with a temp agency and getting your foot in the door someplace where you can climb the ladder. If it was your passion go back to school and get an advanced degree so that you can actually do what you are passionate about. Don’t get sucked into an industry for the pay coughinsurancecough like I did and end up stuck there with no idea how to get out and find a job you can truly enjoy. I am now looking at going back to school to get a doctorate and become a professor once I can figure out how to afford it so that I can do something I find exciting and pleasurable instead of something that makes me count down the minutes until 5 p.m. every afternoon.
In your first post, you comment on how essentially there is no money to be made for soc majors. This is patently untrue.
So, we should all do like you did, because we’re all like you.
When last I looked, engineering school was competitive and difficult to get into. Congrats on having a bright kid who has the type of intelligence that will do well in that field. To state what should be obvious, not everyone has that skill or type of intelligence. And just some food for thought, there are many engineers who would benefit from how shall I say this? better communication skills.
What is this? Could you be more disparaging to something you know little about? I will be patient with you because I am a patient person, your post tipping you into complete jerk territory notwithstanding.
We (yes, we–me and the other posters here who have pointed out repeatedly to you that “softer” science and liberal arts degrees do have worth in the marketplace) get that you don’t approve of people who study stuff that isn’t concrete operational, however much you may think that we are the ones who are looking down on working degrees (project much?).
The funny thing about some of those “working degrees”… I got my BSN back in 1984. To get to the “working” part of that degree, I had to take psych, soc, anthro, a foreign language (did 5 years of HS German, so cross that off the list), English (but I tested out via AP–do you consider AP English to be a waste of time, too?), math (but again, I fulfilled that requirement in HS), and two other liberal arts electives, as well as the chem, bio, organic chem, phsyio, anatomy and microbio. Hmmmm… sounds like a liberal arts education to me. The only thing I didn’t take in college and I regret it is poli sci–I took a religion class instead.
After 2 years of this, I was admitted to the college of nursing to complete the 2 and 1/2 year long study of practical nursing theory, pathophysiology etc. Want to be a case manager? You need a master’s in social work. Want to be a physical therapist–the ultimate working degree? You need a doctorate in some places–and all to help people move around better. That doctorate includes several of your so called useless classes.
Liberal arts education teaches skills that are useful throughout life. A friend of mine (my age, so 45) went to college and got a degree in graphic design. She then became a SAHM. She can’t get a job now–computers took over her field. She is going back to school… to become a marriage therapist. Around here, the going rate for marital therapy is $100/hour. But she needs to take those useless courses you denigrate so much.
Last point: no one is criticizing your parenting. You raised your kids the way you saw fit. I find it disingenuous of you to say that you told your kids that they were on their own unless they got the degrees you approved of, and then you express surprise that your daughter with the art talent “chose” not to pursue art.
Go on, pull my other leg, sometime.
I suspect that you don’t read the engineering trade rags, but they are full of letters from very unhappy engineers, who say all the jobs are going to India and China, and saying that they’d never tell their kids to be engineers. I know EE and Computer Science, and these days I don’t know too many people getting multiple offers. I do know people having trouble getting jobs.
Just about anyone who loves what they do is going to be more successful than someone who hates going to work every day. We have a friend who wanted to major in art, but her father made her major in something practical, business. She went through an entire career regretting it.
So, this engineer is with you.
Yup. I’d stress signing up with multiple agencies, and playing them off each other. They won’t hold that against you; that’s how the temp game is played.
Your first couple jobs will suck. They’ll likely be mind-numbingly boring and possibly grueling and degrading, but your handler (that’s what I call them) isn’t going to risk you on her good clients.
Once they know you can show up early for work, professionally dressed and able to pleasantly do your work, you immediately become much more valuable to them.
Once you’ve established yourself as a relatively hot commodity, time to play the agencies. Get up early, get ready to go and call all your handlers. “What have you got for me today? Okay, call you right back.” Call each agency and pick the best job, and call the others back and let them know you found something more interesting, challenging, closer, whatever bullshit.
Every job you successfully complete is real experience they (and you) can bank on.
When I was younger and doing the temp thing, I got myself a typing tutor program and brushed up my touch-typing skills which was fairly easy because I already could touch-type, but more importantly the program I used also taught me to 10 key, a useful data entry skill that can get you more jobs if needed, and pretty easy to pick up with a little practice.
No one who looks back fondly on their reading of Sir Gawain and the Green Marketing Campaign, The Candybuyer Tales, The Ringtone of Roland, or La boisson sportive d’Arthur, as I’m sure we all do.
No, engineering trade rags don’t come much in my way. That’s too bad about the engineering jobs. But I also can’t believe that these EE students and the like could be piss poor in English and other “liberal art” areas and still succeed. Plus, if you happen to be piss poor in math, engineering is not going to be an option, nor is accounting or some business. It seems an obvious point, but to some, perhaps not…
And I am stuck in nursing for now, at least. I am so sick of it (not the pts–the pts are the least of it), but with 2 kids looking at college and a 5th grader, I need to make the money. LIS is great and all, but there is not much money in it. I will see where it takes me (not ruling anything out–like Health Science Libraries). I wish I had gone to journalism school or yes, majored in English. I would much rather have made my living through writing/teaching literacy than how I do it. So, I am as stuck as your friend.
Vinyl Turnip–yes, he was fairly rude about a degree that came from University of Chicago, no? However practical or impractical it may have been, my sister makes mid 6 figures, travels the world and has had an interesting life, exposed to all manner of cultures and people. Too bad she learned about what interested her–it really didn’t pay off for her. :rolleyes:
OK, I’m wrong. You got me here. The op said he applied for 400 jobs and didn’t get an offer. I guess you think that 401th attempt will bring on the gold.
You are welcome to live your life any way you want. My life isn’t necessarily a good pattern but my overall strategy for success hasn’t been too bad. Simply stated - acquire skills in a profession that is in demand and you will be employed.
We so very much agree on the issue of communication skills. Good interpersonal skills are a goldmine for the engineering grads who possess them. You might be surprised that engineering students are required to take some liberal arts studies. My son is taking a mythology course this upcoming semester. He says he’s looking forward to doing some analysis that isn’t as rigid in structure as engineering courses.
Funny, you don’t seem patient. Emotional? Yes. Patient, no. What makes you think that I don’t understand the job market? (you know, the subject of this thread)
Every degree has “worth in the marketplace”. But 100 of those degrees trying to snag 5 jobs won’t be as successful as 100 degrees trying to snag 135 jobs. 've pretty much stated that a number of ways for you but my poor working degree communication skills must be failing my attempts.
Do you even realize that, with this argument, you just proved my point.? Your liberal arts education was the foundation for you to continue towards a working degree. I wonder if anyone told Soul that he should return to school to build on his experience and get a working degree. Wait, it looks like the guy in post #18 said exactly that.
Wow, you provided Two examples of somebody tailoring their degree in order to accomplish job placement. I wonder if anybody else in this thread gave examples or mentioned seeking a “working degree”?
That’s because my daughter knows me much better than you. Daddy would pay for her degree regardless of the degree and in deference to his lecture. But I also have smart kids who know how to benefit from advice. They got the message - You want to be employed or do you want to be the foremost authority in Mediterranean Art? They figured out that , with a job, they could make the cash needed to actually afford the art.
I don’t need to pull your leg. Your knee-jerk reaction does it quite nicely for you.
Slight correction - they will try to hold that against you, but don’t believe them. That IS how the game is played; they just want you to think that they’re doing you some huge favour by finding you an assignment. Temping is the ultimate at-will employment; you can be let go for any reason or no reason. What the temp agencies don’t want YOU to know is that you can quit just as easily with no penalties whatsoever.
Your whole response to this thread is way off the charts, Bubba. This isn’t about you, your kids, your parenting, or your views of engineering v. liberal arts.
But I do agree with something you kind of touched on tangentially - the way to find a job is to find someone you can serve.
And it is true that we don’t think of it that way - we think we’re expressing our highest selves or reaching for some kind of star with our careers, and that success is bestowed for being Good, or The Best.
It’s not the case at all.
Pretty much everyone is selling a service or a product; we’re all helping someone else in some way. Engineers and artists alike. We all serve.
I finally got around to seeing the Rolling Stones in concert about 10 years ago and it was a curious thing. I felt odd going, I’m not a partier or hard-core person or anything wicked cool. This concert was at Camp Randall at the U.W. Madison, so the audience was full of professors, grad students and other dorks like myself. Lenny Kravitz opened, nobody cared. But the Stones came out and suddenly we were all cool. We weren’t there to worship them; no. They went to a-go-go, and we all went with them.
I realized that’s what they were actually selling.
fessie I agree. My approach was wrong. I tried to provide personal examples as proof that if you will get a job if you focus on a degree that is in demand. The problem is others came in and provided personal examples of people who were successful while not pursuing a demanded degree. Try as I might I couldn’t get my point across.
The focus of the argument shifted too easily to a tech vs arts argument. I regret letting elinorerigby drag me into her own personal issues.
Oh how I wish you were right. Among my other hobbies I’ve been a program chair, a reviewer, and I edit a column where I work closely with a real English major class professional editor, both for the ones I write and the contributions I get. There are some people who write quite well, but many are awful. The competition is from a bunch of people for whom English is not their first language, so the standard is lower. I’ve edited a few papers from people at work, and it isn’t easy.
My wife, by the way is a biologist turned into a writer, with a few books published, so I better write well to show my face at home.
Well then she’s worth every penny. (My oldest daughter went to Chicago. She always wrote pretty well, but she was even better once she emerged from that place.
I’ve been out of the IT field for almost 6 years now. I decided over Christmas to try to get back into it - I used to be a good programmer, I’ve lots of experience, and I really liked it. No luck so far. Nothing but a couple nibbles since January.
Sorry I can’t offer much advice, just keep plugging away and try not to get discouraged. Job hunting is frustrating, especially when you’re fresh out of school or don’t have much recent experience. I hope you find something.
I had an interview at Avita, the place I linked upthread, today at one. It went GREAT! I really clicked with the two folks interviewing me, and the job sounds like something I’d really love to do. The benefits are marvelous, but the pay and commute are both pretty bad. I’d likely have to take some part-time work in the evenings to make ends meet, but still, it would be a fantastic job to have. I find out the hiring decision next week.
I was in a good mood so I decided to go give blood on my way home. They sucked out their pint and I got back to the homestead tired and quite happy. I decided to take a nap, and had just drifted off to sleep when my phone rang. Well I’ll be damned, it was someone calling to ask if I wanted to set up an interview for next week doing clerical intake stuff in a new doctor’s office!
Being offered an interview three hours after one very, very good interview is the best, most positive thing that’s happened in this job hunt in weeks! Damned if you guys weren’t right about plugging away at it for a little while longer.
Any Dopers who want to drive to the Atlanta area – drinks are on me if one of these opportunities comes through!
This is the problem I’m experiencing at my current work- People constantly complain that I use “Big Words” and make them feel dumb. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve explained to one of the communications people in Sydney that TYPING YOUR E-MAILS ALL IN CAPITAL LETTERS IS CONSIDERED SHOUTING AND IS THUS VERY RUDE, and we won’t even get into the appalling speling erors and oddly disjointed turns of phrase (and I know this person is a native English speaker because I’ve spoken to them on the phone several times).
Being able to Communicate Well is, at least around here, Not A Marketable Job Skill anymore. No-one cares. “Because that’s, like, what computer spell-checkers are for, duh!”
Even the customers think I’m an arrogant prick because every second word out of my mouth isn’t “Like” or “Uh” or “'Y’know”.
Yes, I’m in the wrong field. Anyone over there run a magazine or a newspaper or a radio station or a publishing house and feel like hiring me and organising the Visas? (my wife will need to come too, obviously…)
That’s too bad about the engineering jobs. But I also can’t believe that these EE students and the like could be piss poor in English and other “liberal art” areas and still succeed. Plus, if you happen to be piss poor in math, engineering is not going to be an option, nor is accounting or some business. It seems an obvious point, but to some, perhaps not…