If a man is conscripted into an army, being forced to leave behind his family–essentially forced into slavery–it doesn’t matter whether the victimizer is a woman or a man. What matters is that he’s been fucked. He’ll gain no pleasure out of the fact that the fucker who’s fucking him has a dick just like him.
Likewise, your genitalia entitle you to no share whatsoever in the suffering of other women. There’s no “we,” kemosabe, when it comes to suffering.
Your brand of feminism is pernicious identity politics of the worst sort.
Oddly enough, I just opened an article on CNN.com discussing why talented female contestants are getting voted off American Idol so quickly leaving mostly males in the final rounds. The conclusion: most of the viewers and the vast majority of the aggressive voters are female and they target other females to get kicked off the show.
That’s not nice nor does it speak well for many arguments given the OP but I have heard of that being common even in the workplace especially in female dominated professions like nursing.
No, that video is a horror on it’s own without having to be turned. I think you’re the only person here that disagrees.
I’m undecided if the guys are serious without realizing the irony, trolling the internet and the female half of the human race (probably not, they don’t seem that clever), or just trying to get laid.
They are apologizing for something they didn’t do, which is meaningless. They are also apologizing on behalf of other men who may or may not share their opinion - that’s not only meaningless but it’s horribly arrogant too.
So the video basically boils down to 50% new-agey earth mother masculine-feminine “energy” bullcrap, 10% (probably unintentional) insulting of women, and 40% “gee, you’ve really had it shitty and still do sort of have it shitty, my bad (even though I didn’t do anything)”
Without question men have treated women badly throughout history.
Today women are still treated badly. Things have gotten better for women but certainly there are parts of the world where women are treated horribly and even in the US, where we espouse equal rights, women are still behind men.
I am not arguing any of that and I am saddened the disparity still exists. That said I think in the Western world things have gotten better for women. It is not as equal as it should be but the arc of women’s rights has been headed in the right direction for awhile. It has a ways to go yet but it is better than it was and I hope that trend will continue.
The goo factor of this video is just impossible to get around.
Certainly men and women should be equal. That said men and women are different. Not just in obvious reproductive parts but in mind and spirit. There is no better or worse. Just different. Both need to learn to deal with the other. If you want to blame something blame Mother Nature.
The video is…ack…just so fawning and treacle and…well…icky the message gets lost. I apologize in advance but those guys come across as the most pussy-whipped-never-been-laid guys I have ever seen. They do not help the cause of men and women respecting each other.
I respect women (in general), I have no respect for the guys in the video.
Look, I’m sorry you feel this way, but interpreting the things you read and see is sort of an integral part of responding to anything in the world. You feel there is a clear, direct meaning and only a single interpretation of both your words and this video. Unfortunately, different people will see these things differently and that doesn’t make them wrong or dishonest.
I (and apparently many others) look at this video and interpret it as New Age garbage which makes insulting generalizations about all women and takes insulting liberties in apologizing for all men everywhere (and suggesting that if they don’t want to apologize it’s because they’re just unenlightened). You look at this video and interpret it as a wonderful exercise in consciousness-raising that reflects your own opinions.
Somehow, we both get that from the same video. Different people, different interpretations, imagine that.
BTW, reminding you of the words from my first post does not equal ‘redenigrating’. ‘Redenigrating’ is not even a word.
There is no viewpoint except Stoids viewpoint.
She’s right about everything don’t you know that?!
She was right about her court case (and was only thwarted by the EVIL lawyers and broken court system – run my MEN).
She graciously started a whole thread to inform us how absolutely right she was all along that it’s not her fault she’s fat.
And now it’s all our fault for failing to see that she’s right about this too. You see that, right?!
The fact that the victimization of women plays completely into her refusal to believe that she may in some small way be the architect of her own failure is completely unrelated to the issue at hand. We’re all just not enlightened enough to see it.
Luckily we have her to beat us over the head in pointing it out.
Yep. Which just reinforces the fact that the oppressors of the world are almost exclusively male.
I don’t feel I do share in the suffering.
Tell me, were you angry and emotionally invested in what happened on 9/11? Assuming you didn’t actually lose anyone you know on that day and the answer is yes, can you say why? I’m going to venture a guess that it’s because you are an American, and you felt for your fellow Americans who were actually directed affected by what the terrorists had done. Because you are part of that group, “Americans”, and what happened to the 3000 and their loved ones mattered to you not because you were them or knew them, but because you felt part of the same tribe.
It’s really ridiculously common, you know, to care about and feel a part of a group that you share characteristics with: you (not you personally necessary, but many other "you"s reading this) may be a rabid fan of your local sports team, and you are extemely invested in their wins and losses, in a lighthearted way. You may be black or Jewish or a member of some other ethnic group and feel very connected to other members of that group, even if you don’t know them and you have not personally suffered persecution because of your race or creed.
Well, I am part of the group that is the single largest and most collectively abused and oppressed group that has ever existed on earth, and I feel for the members of my group, to whom I feel connected, when they suffer because they, like me, have vaginas.
“seeing things differently” is expected. Adding meanings that are the opposite of what has been said is not “seeing things differently”, it’s putting words in other people’s mouths, which has always been wrong and continues to be wrong. You have repeatedly taken plain statements that were not confusing or ambiguous and assumed that completely unrelated things were intended. That’s wrong.
An opinion you are more than entitled to.
If you find their statements about women being kind, peacemakers, intuitive, connected to the earth, and all the other gooey New Age but very positive statements they made insulting, that is pretty much the definition of seeing things differntly right there. The thing remains what it is; your reaction to it is where the seeing things differently comes in.
But if you contend it is insulting because they implied, by saying all those positive things (not to mention very specifically declaring that both men and women could be all the things that men and women both are) that they were actually conveying their belief that women aren’t capable, have no goals, are lame at math, don’t understand business or any other negative thing that was in no way whatsoever a part of what they said, you’re not “seeing things differently”, you’re making things up out of whole cloth to find things to be insulted by. And that’s wrong.
You seem to take any positive and look under it for the negative that is the “real” meaning, like a woman who is told “You look beautiful in dresses” and responds “Oh, so you’re telling me my ass is too fat to wear pants!”
.
They took the liberty, yes. And if some men find it insulting, I have no quarrel with that, because the insult arises from what the men actually did, not something else the insulted men assume they did, something the men actually said, not something they assume they really meant.
And speaking of insulting… do you really not recognize how incredibly insulting it is to so frequently assume there is a meaning that isn’t being frankly stated, and that you know what it is? Do you really not recognize how insulting it is to essentially treat others’ statements as fundamentally dishonest code that you have now accurately interpreted to be the shitty insult you’ve decided it really is after all?
Yes, I know…hence my quotes. And you weren’t “reminding” me of your words,you said the same words you said the first time as though it explained why you said it.
Rather than explaining why you chose to share your thoughts, you just “re-shared” the same thoughts.
Rather than explaining why you took the time to write it out and hit “submit”, you just rewrote it, and resubmitted it.
Rather than identifying what your purpose was for expressing your thoughts publicly, you just “re-expressed” the same thoughts.
Hey!!! I apologized for the rape of the Sabine women and for the male-dominated patriarchy that forced Lucretia Borgia and Madame Mao to commit their male-style evil (since womyn are perfect vessels of goddess/earth lifeforce energy) and my tremendous ballsack apologized too.
So…where are the Doper-chicks? I should be getting doperchicks in droves.
(PS–It’s not the “goo” factor, it’s the pernicious and fucking evil idea that you have A) responsibility for and B) the power to meaningfully apologize for things you had nothing to do with. Not only is the basic premise diseased, it’s counter productive AND condescending. For a large segment of the population, one you apologize for something, it’s over. So…since I took my phony share of the burden for the rape of the Sabine women, I don’t have to do anything else. I said I was sorry that my male anti-life-affirming energies mingled with the cosmik harmonic and touched other tainted energies that did bad things. Great. So now I’m done and don’t have to care any more. Seriously, did ANYONE feel better that I personally apologized for my part in the rape of the Sabine women*)
*Factoid–“The Rape of the Sabine Women” was written down by Plutarch (a man!). Stephen (“The Devil and Dan Webster”) Vincent-Benet (another man!) did a short story retelling Plutarch’s story set in hillbilly country. The story was called “Them Sobbin’ Women”. This was turned by MGM (filled with men!) into a weird musical directed by Vincente Minelli (it’s a conspiracy! He’s a man too!) called “Seven Brides for Seven Brothers” (Note: they’re “brides”-described by their relationship to men. The “brothers” are described in relationship to other people! An outrage!). Males were involved in all aspects of this anti-womyn progression. I apologize for the. Except the barn-raising dance number–which, despite being probably the most masculine dance ever filmed–rocked so much testosterone that the choreographer (Michael Kidd) probably had a scrotum that was as big as Staten Island. that it would be a crime to apologize for it. Even though it’s…y’know…totally non-female. And therefore eeeevil.