In reply to London_Calling’s penultimate post, there, can I just be the first to say:
How fucking convenient, you bastard !
(also, that ‘blue and green should never be seen’)
So your response is “It was over a year and a half ago- you can’t possibly expect me to remember plagiarizing a white-supremacist website that long ago”? And it speaks volumes that you didn’t just copy & paste, you cleaned it up as well so that it didn’t appear as offensive.
At least the Stormfront chumps are upfront about their agenda.
Andy, mate. Take a deep breath. Seriously.
I’ve had many a pint with you, and I know you’re an all around swell guy. You’re not a bigot by any stretch of the imagination, and an anti-Semite is the last thing I’d call you.
But you see, I’ve shared a beer or two with Dex as well, and I can assure you he too is a great guy. His conservative views on some matters (namely the Israeli topics) don’t change that one bit: he’s a man I gladly call a friend, and a damn fine colleague here on these boards.
See my dilemma here? In fact, I just told Dex per e-mail that the two of you would probably get along just fine should you ever meet face to face. I really do believe that, and I don’t tend to be a poor judge of character in that regard.
I honestly thought your characterisation of Dex as an administrator at the start of this thread was unfair, and completely unsubstantiated. You basically saw that Dex had similar views as december when it comes to Israel, and concluded that that must be the reason december is still a member here. That was uncalled for. I’ve since explained why I feel it was wrong, and I think you trust me enough to take my word for it.
Then, there’s your approach to the “Jews in US media” issue. Fer crying out loud man, as various posters have pointed out, Jews do not form a united front when it comes to the Israel/Palestine debate, or anything else for that matter. Ownership of media companies doesn’t change that one bit. I can understand the curiosity to try and pinpoint just what causes the political differences between the US and Europe with regard to Israel, but honestly, you’re going about it the wrong way here. Completely uncharacteristic, I might add, as most people will agree we’ve come to know you as a man of intellect and honesty.
IzzyR dug up some really old posts, but he does have a point: you lifted these quotes off anti-Semitic websites. I can understand why you’d be embarassed to attribute such a source, but at the same time, you could have posted it with a caveat anyway. It would have been the honourable thing to do. Now, it just makes you look bad, even though the posts are old.
In short, you’re a great guy, so is Dex, and I wish you’d just admit that you’ve just been going about things the wrong way in this thread. That’s it, pretty much.
Mojo: "At least the Stormfront chumps are upfront about their agenda."
Maybe that’s a sign that you’re not dealing with a Stormfront chump?
Everyone: I know this is the Pit and tempers are high and this is a visceral issue for many. But since London_Calling clearly has no intention of expressing anti-Semitic thoughts (witness his solidarity with the Israeli refusenik and the Chief Rabbi of England), wouldn’t it be a good idea to tone things down a notch here? So far as I know, there are no closed minds taking part in this debate; we can all be the wiser for this experience in the end.
L_C, no hurry on getting back to me. Feel free to seek out companionship, buxom or otherwise, in proximate venues before returning to the virtual community ;).
A wonderful response, LC. Truly a reflection of the class act you’ve shown yourself to be.
Yes, you admit you’re a plagiarist.
And not only that, someone who filches his stuff off a white supremacist/racist website.
Very, very nice.
And you profess no embarassment about it. No, Izzy’s nasty for bringing it up, it happened a long time ago, and besides, you were just doing me a favor.
Which is a lie, as I’ve shown before. You were challenged when making a sleazy insinuation, and could think of nothing better to do than to slap up a copied list of Jews Who Run The Media, authored by some swastika-tattooed pinhead. You never bothered to check any of this crap out. You continue to this day to espouse errors and distortions on this subject despite attempts to educate you (including in this thread), but you ramble on, apparently content that a Jew-baiting diatribe you stole off the Internet holds the key to knowledge.
On another matter - your references to me by an altered user-name.
Despite the fact that game-playing with other usernames is generally frowned on here, I wasn’t going to call you on “Klugman-mannii”. True, it was a lame, clumsy and pointless invention on your part - but if it gave you joy, I was going to overlook it. However, given the turn events have lately taken, and knowing that you might be hurt if I didn’t recognize you with a similar pet appellation, it seems time to return the honor.
Let’s see.
I think we should link you with a kindred spirit. One who shares your oblique and insinuating style of accusation, your inexplicable paranoias, and not least, your bigotry.
I christen thee London_Larouche.
I don’t expect to address you in this manner outside the confines of this thread - with the exception that if you ever spread your bigoted Jewish Media Conspiracy slop in any future thread, or ever refer to me by anything other than my actual username, you will once again be London_Larouche and a link to this debacle will be forthcoming.
That’s a promise.
So far we’ve got:
-repeatedly calls another poster a racist bigot with no evidence.
-accuses a mod of bias with no evidence.
-repeats a offensive stereotype that Jews control the media with either no evidence, or his evidence is a racist website that he edited and can’t remember the source (note: if you can’t remember the source, why do you continue to repeat it?). When pointed out that the owner of the Post and the WSJ aren’t Jewish, he changes his story as to what he claims he meant.
-has been asked for cites repeatedly and doesn’t provide them.
I didn’t have anything against L_C prior to this thread, I had disagreed with him on some issues but nothing really substantial. But from what I’ve seen in this thread is pretty vile. I’ve asked him to put up or shut up, and he’s done neither. Is he a “kill all Jews” Stormfront type? no. But he sure as hell repeats offensive stereotypes and wrongly maligns people.
Jack, for fuck sake, drop the insinuations that he is an anti-semite.
he most certainly isn’t. you are the only one who is continuing this.
“None are so blind…”, TwistofFate.
Get real. He’s making a lot of believers out there.
Mojo, I’d like to see this thing work itself out amicably–and I believe it can–so I’m not going to adjudicate here.
But let me just say that december has done plenty to justify calls of bigotry (a word that simply means intolerance), and I suspect one could make a decent case for his also having capitulated to racist thinking. I’d make it myself but a) I don’t like to use the word racist for the reasons I elaborated above and b) it would require re-reading a sampling of december’s OPs, and to read any of his posts more than once is a waste of time akin to inviting early death.
Again, I think there are important issues to be worked out here, and an opportunity to work them out in the best possible spirit. But let’s please not rush to defend december against insults that his trollish behavior is bound to incite. Not only is that unfair to L_C, it will only encourage december.
In case anyone hasn’t noticed yet, december has once again initiated a substandard OP about a writer for the New York Times.
:rolleyes:
I have seen three year olds who seek attention in more intelligent ways.
Well, I think it is time to shut this thread down. Moderators, if I may, while London’s issue here may deserve comment, I think that this is not the place.
Let me, however, make one or two interjections before hand --before you all carry this elsewhere, another thread or whatever.
(a) I had not felt London deserved Jack’s response for all that I have not followed this closely, but the … comparision of the commentaries is disturbing. I hope London will sit back, recollect, and then come back with an explanation or apology as the case may warrant. Mistakes can be made. Those that are flushed out and cleaned up are best. Look at me.
(b) On Dex in particular I feel I must defend his objectivity at some level. I use the weaseling because I can’t pretend to have paid deep attention. However, I am sure many here noted my somewhat savage attacks on the facticity of certain positions Dex took in the past in re the Palestinians and Arabs. I believe they were fully deserved, but I was not pleasant or kind. Then I was banned, as we all know, for something along those lines, but gone a bloody idiot too far… And now I am back, largely I think a better poster. If Dex (i) held grudges on a personal and/or political and (ii) allowed them to interfere with his duties, I would not be here. I think this is easily agreed upon. So, it may be there is some counter example of Dex not being fair or whatever. That may be, I don’t follow him around, nor he I, I would expect. However he has shown himself to be impartial on one major occasion at the very least – given my presence … arouses certain passions among my “fans.” I tip my hat to him, he deserves respect. Real respect. …
© December: december’s willful blindnesses in certain areas I think fully deserve the label bigotry. Perhaps to use his phrase, ‘soft bigotry.’ Or perhaps unenlightening ethnic tribalism is another turn of phrase. His willingness to twist facts in re the France thread bordered on the surreal – but no one is going to win such an argument.
Nor do two wrong make a right.
So, folks, since this is not all about me (you know I hate it when I am not the center of it all) or december, and since it has taken a far off OP turn to some unpleasant issues, let’s shut this down.
Hang on just a minute there ….
I said I didn’t know from where the stuff came, and I don’t. IzzyR – because it suits his december apologist role - kindly picked the worst loony supremacist site, but this stuff isn’t copyrighted, it could have come from any number of sites out there.
Also, this “plagiarism” nonsense; firstly you can’t plagiarise facts; second, there’s no copyright on many of these pages. Plagiarism isn’t an issue.
Okay, a few examples of the many, many options IzzyR overlooked in his desire to find the worst he could:
http://compuserb.com/mediain1.htm - And this one looks a little familiar (the beautiful turquoise, possibly). Hmmm, this rings a slight bell but I have no idea what Serbian nationalists have against Jews …. Of the ones I’ve come across, this seems the most likely candidate from where I got the information on behalf of Jack Klugman.mannii and at his specific request. - did I say that already ?
http://adlusa.com/adl//mediain1.htm - This lot also seem to be raving loonies
http://abbc.com/historia/usamed.htm - ‘Radio Islam’ ? Seem a slightly odd bunch on first blush …
http://www.ety.com/HRP/media/USmedia.htm - This lot seem to come from over here, no idea what their issues are …
http://elijah2.com/mediacontrol.htm - This is a guy who seems to have asked Vanguard if he could use it (but he says he doesn’t like them)….
Just a sample of the same information. There are probably hundreds of sites carrying the same article. I can see it suits IzzyR’s agenda to use the nastiest he could find, because he’d rather attack me than the information itself.
Anyway, as I wrote as a proviso 20 months ago;
**"Okay, firstly an advisory notice:
”I’m only interested in facts. If anything that follows is inaccurate, please post accordingly. It is, to the best of my knowledge (there is simply too much info for me to check it all), current and accurate”**
- That remains the case. Anyone got any information or actual facts to dispute the content, I’m listening. Still. Please fight a little ignorance, here …
And, btw, what do Serb Nationalists have against Jews ?
I think the whole “ethnic cleansing of people who aren’t Serb” that they embarked upon in the 80’s might have a small influence on them, L_C.
90’s even.
My bolding.
Swelling too much, unfortunately. But sure, always a great pleasure to have a pint.
I *speculated *after a few others mused (in this thread) over why december hasn’t been banned. Fact is, it’s incongruous to many that he remains a member while someone like, say, Wildest Bill got banned.
I understand why there’s no transparency in the decision-making process but it, inevitably, means you’ll get speculation.
CK Dexter Haven fell foul of my speculation and for that, thanks to your reassurances, I apologise.
I’m not “embarrassed”, I’m frustrated that, yet again, any discussion of Jewish media ownership has been turned around (to focus on the poster) rather than actually deal with the issue once and for all – and so, for sure, the accusations of “obsession” will return. The issue never, ever gets dealt with.
I’d love to leave the subject alone, if only someone would post something factual that contradicts what I understand to be the correct position.
And remember, I didn’t raise the subject in this thread and, initially, I found the cited passage at someone else’s request … go figure.
This is really not my scene, I’d much rather have a sensible chat to get to the bottom of things with, for example, Mandelstam than deal with this ugly and distracting hysteria.
But the thing is, I learned not to back down from intimidation, bigots, racists, whatever a long time ago in a lively youth: the Anti-Nazi League, Rock against Racism, the ’81 inner city riots, people like Blair Peach who died … there was a lot going on then (and, as it happens, we eventually got a decent sound-track to those times) … and those learned principles stay with you.
Even the offer of compromise is, by many extremists, seen as a sign of weakness and a signal to lay into someone.
I might sometimes get my tactics wrong, but I won’t and I can’t back down against this kind of thing. It’s too ingrained.
I want the facts, sorry.
Well if this is to continue, I’d be more interested in your saying more about what you now think these facts, such as they are, are relevant to, London_Calling? I believe that you have, and have had, no intention to be anti-semitic, to traffic with neo-Nazis, etc. But, on reflection, are you still trying to make an empircal case that Jewish ownership/editorship of some media properties is what is mainly responsible for the US’s foreign policy towards Israel?
My question can stand as is, but I just thought I’d make clear that I posted it prior to seeing your last, London.
Class act.
Can I put this blue helmet down now? 
FYI, perhaps not irrelevant: someone has started [url=http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=184176] this debate on whether National Public Radio is biased in favor of Israel in its Middle East reporting. NPR is, of course, the closest thing the US has to the BBC and is constantly accused of liberal bias.
[sub]That said, to be honest, I’m sick to death of these bias threads which tend to be long on partisanship and hairsplitting and short on context. There is a kind of mind-numbing familiarity to the way they play out that detracts from what might otherwise be an interesting topic. I guess it’s not fair to assume that december has started a trend but it’s hard for me to entirely detach him from this.[/sub]
Apologies: aforementioned GD link
Some of the doper ladies might suggest you should loosen your grip.