Deception Gets You Laid - How Bad Is This?

Great Debates
101

“”""""""“If anyone willingly has sex w/ another, (esp. 1st date or picked up in bar) and did not take enough time to FIND OUT who that other person is. Then they have nothing to complain about. They obviously weren’t that concerned in the first place! They were out to get laid. Hell, they should be happy. After-all wasn’t that the goal in the first place?”""""""""

“”""“Rape? not hardly”"""""

This seems to avoid the consent/deception issue altogether. Still waiting on the hetero-sexual rape thing - but i think it’s implied that the guy can’t care; so the issue of deception and consent is in regards to the female - if the female scans a room and grabs a guys hand and walks out the door - fine (although this would set trend behavior in which everybody dresses the same and moves the same in order to increase the odds of being selected in these random sex-by’s). If however the female speaks to the male about something relatively unrelated to sex for longer than a minute or so, consent issues in regards to cognitive age must be taken into account; as they are using personality-evidence as a selective value.

-Justhink

102

“”"""""""""What good does it do you to “get” sex you do not want?

You may be unable to imagine a male who would not consent to sex, or who is not entirely obsessed with whether or not he is getting it, but that is far more a testament to your lack of imagination than it does to reality.

“”"""“And it is people like you who are unable to imagine that a guy would not want sex at a given point who make it impossible for male victims of rape to come forward and say so. You continue to belittle the painful experiences of others by denying the possibility that they are anything other than “complaining” about getting something that only you and prejudiced fools like you believe that they wanted.”""""""""

This runs into the easing of existential pressure from having had a relatively validating sex-life prior - it allows for the formation of the experiential luxury to deny sex - and allows for the amplification of the player mentality which tends to attract even unsolicited sex. I would be quite suprized if your victims weren’t players - (exceptionally high contradiction frequencies). Talk alot, gabby, critisizing, gossipy, enjoy sports … the basic CI routines to set the layer. I suppose the other option is the despodant type who was taken advantage of by a released convict who has a pattern of this behavior - prey/victim stuff, where a person is selected based on their lack of sexual abuse patterns. It would certainly seem a rude awakening.

I am seemingly aware that there are people of all types and experiences. I think it is exceptionally abnormal for a non-player to not want sex, it doesn’t fit the general profile. I suppose asexual males could be raped - but that moves into abstinence issues for life-long stuff like religion.

‘people like me’ You completely blew over the inverse system - lots of guys kill themselves over lack of sex; you’re attack mode is still on to the degree that you don’t even see a balance incurred here between these belittling negations represented on either and/or both sides.

-Justhink

103

My point is not that either party “lied” to the other, I’m not justifying deceit. The point is more along the lines of: the person should not be having sex at all with someone they barely know.

And if they decide to do so, then they can expect to find out that some of what they thought initially will turn out to be different. Especially after getting to know them better. Provided either person hangs around that long.

What about the guy that is arrested for being w/ a 16 y.o. he picked up in a bar. She said she was legal!

The knife cuts both ways.

No…if you’re willing to “get laid” without taking the time to get to know your sex partner then you’re apt to get screwed… hmm

As far as the hetero/sex/bi goes, same point! Take a little time to get some real knowledge about the person. Damn, is it so bad that sex has to be RIGHT NOW! can’t wait…BULLSHIT

Masturbate if you have to, but don’t jump in the sack right off the bat. You can’t possibly know a person well enough after a one meeting, even when you think you do know them, after years sometimes, shit will pop up that they never told you.

and everybody tries to present themselves in a better light if possible…EVERYBODY

Q: Isn’t makeup, hair dye, nails, boob jobs, fake tans, support hose, etc. pretty much the same thing?

(I can just see all the women showing up at the bar w/the kids screaming and the hair net and rollers)

104

Whether or not some people commit suicide over lack of sex says nothing about the people who share a trait with them who have been assaulted.

Stereotypes do not meaningfully apply to individuals. Your generalisations are not particularly good nor accurate ones even as stereotypes go.

105

I can certainly conceed that a man who has vowed celibacy and not producing offspring can be raped. So the axiom falls regardless of the petty arguments which ensue. I’ll certainly have to re-think the issue on a number of levels. Thank you Lilairin. I don’t know an axiom from which to frame the consent issue - anyone else?

-Justhink

106

“”"""""""""My point is not that either party “lied” to the other, I’m not justifying deceit. The point is more along the lines of: the person should not be having sex at all with someone they barely know.

And if they decide to do so, then they can expect to find out that some of what they thought initially will turn out to be different. Especially after getting to know them better. Provided either person hangs around that long.

What about the guy that is arrested for being w/ a 16 y.o. he picked up in a bar. She said she was legal!

The knife cuts both ways.""""""""

Umm… did he seem dissapointed about it? Hell, there are quite a number of men out there would would likely spend years in prison for this ‘opportunity’ – as a contract to sign.

“”"""""“No…if you’re willing to “get laid” without taking the time to get to know your sex partner then you’re apt to get screwed… hmm”""""""""

=)

“”""""""""“As far as the hetero/sex/bi goes, same point! Take a little time to get some real knowledge about the person. Damn, is it so bad that sex has to be RIGHT NOW! can’t wait…BULLSHIT”""""""""""

Tell that to old virgins committing suicide, because they held your voice in their heads their whole lives as their moral compass.

“”"""""“Masturbate if you have to, but don’t jump in the sack right off the bat. You can’t possibly know a person well enough after a one meeting, even when you think you do know them, after years sometimes, shit will pop up that they never told you.”"""""""

Of course this stuff will pop up; there are 1,000,000+ words in the english language, quite a number of mental states and tons of experiential phenomenon. Why would someone be suprized to hear that you’re husband or wife was once the opposite sex; or far, far wilder stuff? Don’t people float these things in short-term memory all the time or am I in minority? You can’t make someone un-be their past - and to the degree that transparency is not present you can’t take self-precautions when spacial trust is given. I could be paralyzed by a meteor right now, and then have the ensuing thought patterns that result from it. If I don’t want those thoughts or to be in a relationship with meteors I need to kill myself immediately and hope that this doesn’t occur in the interum.

and everybody tries to present themselves in a better light if possible…EVERYBODY""""""

Not true. I’m evidence of this… you’re yelling =)
I consider myself in light of all possible perspectives that can be cast upon me and then attempt to process whether they are all true or not … I tend to observe that they are all basically true; it’s a painful process and i certainly don’t go out of my way to conceal my process or interests - which is the exclusive search for truth, if it exists or not and how I can avoid becoming trapped by a delusion of truth so as to make my search productive. I literally have the single goal of wanting to know whether life has a meaning or not. Every idea is literally a treasure - call me gay I’ll probably agree with you. Call me an asshole, why not? IT has no bearing on my actual steps and how i know myself, what i remember and how I know that those memories of superiority are nothing but luxuries lacking a few very frequent occurrences to people in general. Then again, I’ve had some pretty screwed up stuff myself, the ability to judge myself as worthless for every thought and/or act I do – I literally cannot outprocess this truth.
I have a bunch more stuff to lop on there - and definetely suffer to extremes. You can certainly relish in my very grounded punishment for being here and alive on this earth.

“”""""""""Q: Isn’t makeup, hair dye, nails, boob jobs, fake tans, support hose, etc. pretty much the same thing?

(I can just see all the women showing up at the bar w/the kids screaming and the hair net and rollers)""""""""""""""

I addressed this three times already. NO. It doesn’t matter.

-Justhink

107

Glad you agree. Speaking for myself, I would never stoop to such deplorable behavior. Total non-sequitur: Have I mentioned how much I like paintball? That is, when I can get away from the computer. Of course, sometimes I’m really slowed down by my thick, heavy wallet.:wink:

108

“”""""""“Whether or not some people commit suicide over lack of sex says nothing about the people who share a trait with them who have been assaulted.”"""""""

You stated that it was belittling to deny the reality of those who have been sexually assualted as males. I stated that part of the bias is that droves of hetero-sexual men think about hetero-sexual sex quite a bit; many men will contemplate suicide directly as a result of lack of sex and many men do commit suicide for this reason. The idea of men complaining about hetero-sexual rape belittles the experience of those who cannot percieve it because their suffering is tied to the other end of the spectrum.

Both realities can be judged as belittling the other, equally.
You’re arguing that this is not so, only hetero-sexually raped men can be bellittled and have their experience negated by those who cannot comprehend hetero-sexual rape because their experience is a complete lack of hetero-sexual validation in regards to the giving of sex for validation of ones existence. I believe that both are very strong arguments, and fail to see how one trumps the other.

-Justhink

109

I’d like to point out the speed with which Justhink is posting. If you check the timings, some of the longer posts are only minutes apart, suggesting he isn’t taking the time to edit or even parse them for coherence.

As such, continuing to argue with him (a trap I fell into, myself) is a rather fruitless task, though some of his verbal gymnastics are amusing in their sheer randomness.

110

“”"""""I’d like to point out the speed with which Justhink is posting. If you check the timings, some of the longer posts are only minutes apart, suggesting he isn’t taking the time to edit or even parse them for coherence.

As such, continuing to argue with him (a trap I fell into, myself) is a rather fruitless task, though some of his verbal gymnastics are amusing in their sheer randomness."""""""

I’d like to point out my cigarette breaks between the longer intervals. Dammit, I did have some very good points though!
I guess nobody will ever know =(

-Justhink

111

It’s those damn celibates who screwed it all up. Phooey.
I can’t pull that axiom back together =(

-justhink

112

It just occurred to me, in light of the misogynistic accusation…
Me being white heterosexual 25 and male; that a think tank could make considerable profit by attributing a plethora of ideas to a figure-head which matches the politically correct profile, saaayyy female perhaps =)

Would this be unethical? The females would be happy =P
The ideas would still get released and the males can still appreciate the fruits of the ideas as well. The company makes more profit, capitalizing on a direct cognitive age issue, the scientists actually uncovering all the research can be paid significantly more to offset their silence, and society will receive a ‘Leonardo Da Vincess’; always exciting for a generation to have…

Deception, joy, consent.

What about the instance where ‘unknown’ rapes occur, to the degree that the person is placed on stimulants and surgical meds that do and/or don’t fully put you all the way under?

I’ve already seen one person argue for this here… “nobody’s hurt, not a problem” (something like that).

Crossing this line allows for incredible systems to emerge, so I’m curious how this take is. Consider it in relation to the counter-intelligent use of misogyny for mutual benefit. Using people’s own bias, stupidity and ignorance to validate their own self-perception of worth and free-will.

-Justhink

113

Justthink can i have some of that stuff you seem to be on?

I’m going out tonight and as a nice side effect it might trick some girlies in thinking that I’m actually pretty active and virile.:wink:

114

t-keela I am so with you on this.

If a guy manages to dupe you about his job and you’re upset he’s not Mr Exciting Career then tough bloody luck.

To compare that on any level with rape IMO belittles the ordeal of a genuine rape victim in a truly horrifying way.

If you want more than sex then don’t sleep with him straight away. A first night shag is not a great way to start any relationship - it can work, but there are no guarantees. And if you are particular about your likes and dislikes, all the reason to get to know him better to check him out properly.

115

JRDelirious, isn’t there also a part that states that if a man has sex with a woman after promising her marriage, and fails to do so, he can be accused? False promises or something?

116

I’ve had to decieve every woman I was ever with into thinking I was a worthwhile human being.

I’d have no respect for someone who adopted a fake persona to get a woman into bed. I’d also have no respect for the woman who bedded him on the 1st date based on that persona. And to wail about being violated afterward is to needlessly draw attention to your own foolishness. “I only slept with him because he told me he was a lawyer”. Please…

There are those men and women who go out looking for a sexual encounter to happen that evening. Both will tell lies. It’s called small talk. (Yes, women sometimes lie in order to have sex, too) If someone is actually looking for a relationship, then a little investigation is in order.

117

Essentially yes. I’m not advocating all forms of deception under any situation but if your in a club scaming on women (there’s a reason they call it scaming) and presumably the women are there to pick up men, there’s nothing wrong with putting on a little spin to close the deal.

Besides, women use deception all the time:
High heals - you ain’t that tall
dyed hair - your hair aint that color
makeup - you aren’t that pretty
bust enhancing bras - you tits aint that big!

Is that immoral?

Is it immoral for me to nod thoughfully as if I am even listening to what shes saying when all I care about is getting laid?
Is Justhink an actual poster or is it a random sentence generator that the mods use to stress test the boards software?

118

Justhink: Put down the infinite monkeys and step away from the typewriter; you’re in serious danger of simply being a spammer here.

Seriously, slow down, post once, and “decimate” your posts. You may have a useful idea in there, but we’ll never know.

The question, not that we should get back to it or anything, is a common one, and revolves around expectations. First dates you have an expectation of some puffery; relationships have an expectation of honesty; thanksgiving dinners have an expectation of papering over differences.

It’s really quite simple. Violate the reasonable standard, and you’re in the wrong! Perhaps the question is “Why do we have those expectations,” but that seems overly obvious to me.

119

Oh, and to use the above rule for the “Wonderbra” – all bras are meant to exaggerate; the Wonderbra may indeed take that to unreasonable lengths. We men may have no choice but to join the arms race, and pad our own arm for similar aim. :slight_smile:

120

I wrote the first sentence; the second was Justhink’s response.

Does anyone have a clue what the response means?

Justhink, my reply to your response: It’s “puff, puff, pass” - not “puff, puff, puff.”

Sua