But just because pedescribe (or any un-posting player) isn’t posting, does that necessarily mean they’re not performing Night tasks? (Genuine question here, not rhetorical.)
And an inactive poster’s absence from votes (assuming pedescribe isn’t voting… I’ll have to double-check on that) is certainly not helping town, and could be hurting us, because s/he’s not providing any data points, pro or con.
The whole raison d’etre for Mafia, as I undertand it, is the battle between many uninformed players vs. few informed ones. Someone who refuses to provide any information is not doing his or her job as a townie.
(And I know this may seem hypocritical for me to mention since I’m not exactly bubbling over with info myself.)
Pedescribe’s thrown a few votes in, but yeah, he’s been singularly unhelpful. I’ve played in a few games where people were for all intents and purposes nonexistent in the game thread but doing shit in the scum thread, so I wouldn’t assume that because he’s not here, he’s not there.
I’m not saying he’s priority number one, but over on three other forums, my mantra for years was “No lurker victories”
I’d rather lose a game to active, clever scums than lose a game to a guy who was spitting on my efforts as townie the entire game by not doing anything after wasting a slot in the game by signing up and deliberately not playing.
That townie doesn’t deserve to win and if I’ve not found all the scums by then, well, I don’t either. And if he’s scum, he’s EARNED his death.
True. The caveat to the argument I referred to is that the player in question has to be **completely **absent. In that particular case, the player not only had stopped posting, but had actually deleted their forum account (this was on Idle’s board), so everyone knew for a fact that they weren’t coming back.
We don’t know that **Pedescribe **isn’t all over the Scum thread…but I certainly hope that’s not the case…that kind of play would be way uncool.
Which leads back to my original question to Normal: Why would attacking **Pedescribe **Tonight be bad?
Because I’ll be really rather surprised if he’s scum, and Red needs to attack a scum, if he can attack anyone. Pedescribe put two locked votes on ATPG right before Septimus voted ATPG on day two. His votes sounded genuine, if hasty. And there seem to be more than enough scum night actions to go around, to also have a scum doing nothing.
Well sure; I’m not so 100% on your guilt that I wouldn’t talk to you.
We’ll work with the assumption Red is scum, not that I believe that but okay. Looking back at my notes…
[SPOILER]Askthepizzaguy- Proven innocent by lightfoot, and thus, will be too dead to help you out later on in the game. Normal Phase- Locked in on septimus on D2 with me and other proven townie special ed. Normal Phase is a very good mafioso but this was COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY and outed the scum godfather as a result of it. And she was about as consistent as myself and Stanislaus on making septimus dead. In fact I was the one who decided to go thought experimenting, not her. Stanislaus- too consistent on septimus, and also, locked on Red Skeezix the mafioso even after I tried to talk him out of it. As such, not mafia. Inner Stickler- Your theories were right and I was wrong, guys. I doubt massively that Inner and Red and septimus are mafia together. Suburban Plankton- Your theories were right and I was wrong, guys. I doubt massively that Suburban and Red and septimus are mafia together. Hirka T’Bawa (LOCK SHADOW)
His hesitation this round felt fairly genuine, and I had to prod him to even affect the tally at all. This one is probably my fault. He locked early game on someone in a situation I don’t find the scums could have done. Problem here is he locked Shadow.
**choie **(Red, and disagreed with me all game long about Shadow, Suburban, Inner, etc. The problem here is she didn’t lock Red, only voted once.)
**gnarlycharlie **(Shadow) I’m not really sure. I doubt this one.
**Weedy **(Shadow) I’m not really sure. I doubt this one.
**USCDiver **(Voted septimus, Red, and Red yesterday) *Although, no locks…
**MentalGuy **(Shadow) I can buy it if red is scum.
**pedescribe- **NO VOTE, and not discussing, therefore useless even if townie. Red Skeezix- Mafia and dead. [/SPOILER]
I ranked those from least scummy to most scummy in my opinion. You disagree on these or would like me to more closely examine any of those suspects?
I have the time, I can pull up their posts and check the record and comment.
The only person I’m willing to state I feel is town is you because you got scanned and Lightfoot died. In general, I don’t have any problems with the list but I would be wary of making especially NPhase and Stanislaus look so confirmed. All it takes is one scum to sneak into our heads as seeming townie to trip us at the finish line. If you even wanted to link to a post where you detail your thought process on those two, I’d like to read it, otherwise, I’ll be looking for one Tomorrow.
Yes, I can give explicit reasons why I am not suspecting Normal or Stan.
Please don’t mistake the “blue” as being proven townie. this is still in my opinion zone.
As of right now the only confirmed living person is myself, all others are dead. But beyond the realm of facts lies the madness of opinion, and we’re diving deep into my opinion now.
Normal Phase
271 Normal “I do see what askthepizzaguy is saying about Septimus. The case had a bit of a rhetorical air to it. I almost always find Septimus scummy, at least at first, but I’ll buy that he’s worth paying attention to.”
338 Normal Phase unvote vote: Septimus
“Because having looked at it again, I very much agree with ATPG’s assessment of Septimus’ vote post on him. I have issues with it on its content, but the vote is for its style. It looks very carefully constructed, and that is both characteristic of scum at times (it’s a tendency of my own I have to fight constantly when I’m not town) and uncharacteristic of Septimus as a townie.”
DAY TWO
657 Normal: "How did you get from here to a casual “for obvious reasons” vote on ATPG, Septimus? You’re criticizing his approach to the game, but to what extent do you really believe him to be scum? Your vote is part of a bandwagon that looks capable of getting him lynched; do you really stand behind that vote? If so, why? "
658 Normal unvote gnarlycharlie, vote Septimus
“The comments from Texcat in 600 also need addressing, Septimus.”
829 Normal unvote ShadowFacts, lock vote Septimus
DAY THREE
**887 Normal vote: Septimus
** 896 Normal “2. Answer Pizza’s question about your top four suspects.” - was not answered by septimus.
922 Normal “I don’t think it’s likely that both choie and Septimus are mafia given the latter’s snuggling of the former yesterDay. (It’s possible either could be a third party.) I’d like ATPG and SP both to comment on how they feel about that, given they’re currently questioning both players.”
943 Normal "I have problems with both Septimus and choie currently. More in a bit. "
945 Normal ““Let’s keep hunting for real scum” makes my nose twitch, Septimus. Just so you know.
…
Seriously, Septimus, what’s your point? My vote didn’t swing the result by itself; unless someone already voting for Silver Jan changed their vote after me (which is what actually happened), the odds of you being lynched over her were very slim. Ed, who did do that, was to all appearances town. Silver Jan was town. Even if I were scum there would be no possible machination going on here, and you should be able to recognize that.
…
Finally – you’re not acting like a TOWN bulletproof. You’re a talkative player, Septimus. Sure it gets you in trouble sometimes, but it’s still your best tool in getting yourself attacked by the scum – be right, and make yourself a tempting target. You’ve been, on the contrary, much quieter than usual. You also hinted quite strongly last night that you expected to be alive in the morning – this is the OPPOSITE of what you should do as a townie with that role. You want to encourage attacks, not dissuade them. But it is what you do if you are a third party and want to keep attackers from testing you.”
949 Normal “I’m not going to respond to all of Pizza’s case again you; it’s just too much. But I’ll say that I agree with some of the things he sees as disingenuous in you, and particularly with the argument about Septimus-PIS. He didn’t highlight the sentence I found the most indicative, so let me go find it myself.”
952 Normal "I’m tempted to ask Septimus how he thought about all of this himself. "
1040 Normal "You’re being too sarcastic, and it’s misplaced. I’ve suspected you plenty in past games Septimus, when you’ve been town, and you’ve never acted liked this. "
DAY FOUR
1292 Normal votes Diver (why is this post townie? because he’s one of our top suspects now I think)
1447 Normal unvotes diver, votes septimus, unvotes ShadowFacts, votes MentalGuy[/spoiler]
Highlights:
[ul]
[li] Constantly making septimus the topic of conversation.[/li][li] Early votes of septimus[/li][li] Lots of questioning on septimus[/li][li] Lots of agreement he’s acting wrong, AND WHY.[/li][li] Questioning MentalGuy and Diver.[/li][/ul]
These all smell townie to me. But then, 2 dead scum teammates down, and we have a tracker… not very safe play, or wise. Normal is wiser than this.
Normal Phase is townie. I would wager my winnings from betting everything on septimus on her townie-ness.
Using my “Septimus and votes” I-V as a reference point, but I also had to go digging for his posts using the “Who Posted?” feature since he didn’t talk about septimus as much.
townie posts:
Post 659 Reason: He’s talking about MentalGuy and Diver as suspects and giving reasons.
**893 Stan vote: Septimus **
“I’ve got a certain amount of sympathy for septimus’s point that he wasn’t about to argue his way out of locked in votes. It’s true as far as it goes. But he’d spent the whole day in close contention for the lynch - he should have made his position a lot clearer before the very last minute. I know I said power roles should try to argue their way out of votes first, but I didn’t even see him do that very much. It looks like he was always planning to wriggle out at the last minute.”
1432-
I do like the case on Mental Guy. When I voted for him, he suggested that I was guilty of confirmation bias in making my case. That to be fair is always a risk, so it’s good to see someone else finding him suspicious.
1482-
Well, I suppose Red voting septimus was pretty inevitable. But bussing isn’t going to let you off the hook now.
I say that because I’m about to: unvote Red vote septimus
(Confirm lock-in on septimus)
1717-
I don’t see how this gets Skeezix the benefit of any doubt:
Night Three: No Town (or any other) death. Skeezix was blocked.
Day Four: We lynch septimus. Skeezix had very little to do with this.
Night Four: No deaths - while Skeezix was under pressure to kill.
I’m prepared to wait for Skeezix to explain how he’s failed to kill for the fourth Night running, but there’s no part of that that makes me want to give him the benefit of the doubt. The fact that when he fails to kill, Town don’t die strikes me as damning rather than exculpatory.
1763-
Oh yeah - the conclusion to that: vote Red Skeezix
1964-
You guys are nuts.
He claimed Doc. We don’t have counter-claim. Against that you have the theory that:
Maybe we don’t have a doc - and maybe scum would gamble on that.
The detail in the colour doesn’t match canon - and there’s no way the mods fluffed an adjective.
The blocking colour sounds hostile - and maybe that’s not because scum were blocking Lightfoot too.
After you’ve started being suspicious of him, Inner starts thinking that he might be lynched.
Maybe, maybe, maybe. I’ll need a lot more than that to lynch a claimed Doc.
2032-
It tells me that Skeezix is lying scum who does not have any ability to kill other than as part of the scum team.
If both our interpretations are consistent with the facts, what’s the point of this experiment?
Highlights-
Not as strong as Normal Phase in the early game, in terms of townie-ness.
[ul]
[li] However, he comes back very strong (assuming Red Skeezix is scum).[/li][li]Helps lynch septimus, very consistent on septimus.[/li][li]Goes after Red Skeezix HARD.[/li][li]Goes after MentalGuy and Diver, current suspects, early.[/li][li]Constantly confronts/stands up to me and my bad reasoning (if said reasoning is in fact bad…)[/li][/ul]
Stanislaus, if scum, has adopted a fairly SUICIDAL approach to the game, which is doing his best to lynch septimus and Red Skeezix as hard as possible.
You can’t kill off all your teammates and expect to do well against townies and their power roles you’ve been failing to kill up until now.
I’d wager half my winnings on septimus that Stanislaus is townie. Early game feels a bit fluff-y, though. Still, hard to suggest he’s bussing. That’s some damned good bussing.
While SF was townie, I like that “kind” of reasoning, it doesn’t feel as fake to me. Plus he’s taking a stand. Slight townie read.
The consistent follow-up from the day before is more characteristic of townies.
Scumbags do like to flip flop and live in the moment; whatever is most convenient for the scum team is usually what they do. Townies follow a suspect until that suspect dies. It’s not even the septimus vote I find townie here, it’s the consistency.
Good attack.
**This next post is evidence against Hirka.
This post feels kind of act-y to me.
I currently consider Red Skeezix townie; this whole thing is a thought experiment as to what happens if Skeezix is mafia.
If Skeezix is mafia then the plan is to bus Skeezix hard in an attempt to save septimus, which there are indications Hirka wants to do.
I can’t consider this evidence in his favor.
POSTING FROM PHONE!!! HIRKA IS MAFIA!!!
(Ask Normal Phase.)
the underlined part just feels very oddly like information Hirka knows. It’s a very good guess.
Anyway, if Red is scum, septimus is dead and now he’s bussing Skeezix very happily.
Nice. I like this question, especially in retrospect.
The reasons against ShadowFacts, while wrong, sounded townie.
No, unvoting scum Red Skeezix doesn’t mean he’s guilty 100%. Factor in the reasons why.
I am not sure an “Invoker” is an NPC role. That looks too specific. Just a gut feeling.
Good vote, I think.
He’s pushing me to look at MentalGuy and doesn’t take the bait on voting Stickler.
I disagree with him about Inner and Suburban, but that’s just going to have to sit until Red Skeezix flips townie.
If Red is scum, this post looks quite incriminating.
POSTING FROM PHONE = MAFIA!!![/spoiler]
Highlights-
[ul]
[li]The *content *of his posts feels townie, even though his votes can be read as scummy.[/li][li]His “GO TOWN WOOOOOOT” stuff feels over the top. But I don’t know him well so I can’t be sure about that judgment. It feels like acting to me.[/li][li]Posting from phone- In this example, it’s not just a joke. Townies aren’t THAT interested in these games, especially vanilla ones, unless they’re Askthepizzaguy. In general. This guy is following the thread AWAY from his computer… why?[/li][li]Some of his vote switches look very incriminating. That said, I pushed him towards the scummiest one. But I can’t whitewash that away completely.[/li][/ul]
Anyway, it’s not a strong read either way, but on review, there’s much less solidly townie behavior than I remembered. That’s if Red Skeezix is guilty, that is.
If Red is scum, Hirka becomes a suspect [6/10]
**If Red is townie, I like Hirka more. [2/10]
**
** Remember my early game case against her? That is all valid and still stands. Refer back to it, regardless of Red Skeezix’ guilt or innocence.
She’s one of the few people who don’t flip as a suspect regardless of which way Skeezix flips. Her change in behavior is pronounced and decidedly nervous and unhelpful (IMO) that said, it’s not 100% solid.[spoiler]566- I don’t agree with this post. 570- too many emotional states in three lines.
581-
**
I can’t explain this vote as townie or scum. Just choie, I suppose.
Way too annoyed.
Way too annoyed.
Don’t let her survive this game. I’m choking on this.
No, this isn’t trying, to me.
I don’t get the sincerity vibe.
2001- Choie’s curiosity and questioning of my reasoning on Stickler feels defensive.
It doesn’t matter which way Red flips. None of it sits well with me.
This post makes me gag on the scumminess, ESPECIALLY if Red flips townie.
These kinds of comments disagree with choie’s “I have no idea what I’m doing, I’m so lost” acting.
I dislike how choie constantly describes herself as townie, genuine, and with similar characteristics. I don’t get any of those vibes from her.
Characteristic of choie is her pre-emptive defense of things she knows is scummy. Everything she does is self-conscious. Gah…[/spoiler]
Highlights- More of the same stuff I criticized her on before.
[ul]
[li]None of her votes seem townie to me, even if Red flips scum. She reads like a cornered animal.[/li][/ul]
I don’t know choie, but I can’t find anything substantively townie in her play.
But I could be wrong. I’m not betting the farm on her, but I can’t excuse her survival through the game. She needs to be proven townie by death or other means.
But what Normal has been saying about **MentalGuy **looks good, if Red flips scum.
Diver- I can forgive early votes on me, and I approve of his votes on the scumbags, but if Red flips scum, these things will seem too coincidental to me and I will wonder why he didn’t lock.
Weedy and gnarly just haven’t been scummy enough for me to be comfortable removing them now, especially when much scummier exists. Weedy’s response to questioning was good and gnarly just never rubbed me the wrong way. He was quite gnarly.
His “late” vote for septimus seemed a bit fakey, but it could have happened.
The townspeople and adventurers cringed in their beds, adrenaline pounding through their veins. The Lords of Slaughter were taking their sweet time. The tortured screams echoed softly from some distance; either the Lords had caught someone out and about at night, or they had dragged them away.
In the morning, search parties were sent out. It didn’t take long.
Suburban Plankton has been killed. His body was mutilated almost beyond recognition. Day has arrived, and will last until August 17th at 5 pm central time. Please note that days are now only 4 days long, and that Nightfall has been permanently changed to 5.