Well here’s the problem, friends and scumbags.
From my perspective, and I know it’s not just my perspective, townies have to be able to discuss alternative suspects, especially in a game where death renders one mute. There needs to be contingency plans for things like “I think X is guilty” and “I think Y is guilty” and lo and behold, x and y were innocent.
Even if you’re 100% completely sure Red Skeezix is guilty, you also have to consider what you’re going to do when he dies, and if he flips townie. What’s the game plan? Even if everyone were ready to lock Skeezix, that discussion still needs to happen today. That’s what townies *have *to do, or they lose games.
Townies also have to say which people they’d be willing to vote for. Example: Round one, I voted for Red Skeezix, but since no one wanted to follow me (your loss, scumbags) I decided to go for Koldanar. I then said I would also be willing to lynch septimus that day.
Why is that an important move? Because it shows that if I am mafia with septimus, and someone called my bluff, I’d have no real recourse. I’d have to lynch my scumbuddy ON ROUND ONE.
Why is it important for townies to discuss multiple suspects? Because if you don’t you get rounds where one townie gets 10 or 14 votes and dies and then where are your leads? What progress have you made? Who did you find scummy? maybe there were mafia on the wagon, but with 10 voters on that wagon, how do you narrow it down, especially when folks are using basically the same reasoning?
How to differentiate?
Well, those are vital tools. Discussing alternatives and talking about who else who find suspect and who you’d be willing to vote for.
If you cannot do that, then you have no business being a townie because you will lose games, and I mean more games than if you had discussed. The games you win will be based on luck, or relying on pro-town roles to solve the game for you.
Folks who have been willing to lynch Red Skeezix but have been willing to discuss alternatives have proven to me that they are capable of winning this game as townies, and also, where they stand on the remaining suspects. It also shows that they are MUCH HARDER to read if they are mafia, and in my book, that makes them more deserving victors.
On the flip side, other folks bristled at the very idea of not voting for Red Skeezix today, or discussing alternatives. Some got really upset at the idea.
Those folks are people I cannot trust to win this game, because (ironically) they are “muleishly” stubborn and stuck on an idea. You know, that thing I’ve been accused of.
Not willing to discuss or even look at evidence in Skeezix’ favor, or discuss alternatives after Skeezix flips town, is not townie behavior at all.
Folks like **gnarlycharlie **and Normal Phase and **Stanislaus **and Weedy, they’ve all had the idea to lynch **Red Skeezix **at one point. They probably think it’s a great idea. But they are *not opposed *to the idea of talking about what happens if and when he flips townie, or discussing reasons why he may be innocent. They might even be willing to say who else they’d be willing to lynch, who else might be mafia with Red Skeezix, who might be mafia if Red Skeezix is not mafia.
Those are folks who are capable of winning this game for the town.
Even with yesterday’s push for ShadowFacts even though I wasn’t sure at all of his guilt, what did I ask ShadowFacts? I asked what happens if ShadowFacts and Red Skeezix popped townie. I wanted to know what his moves would be then.** Because it matters.** Because having the trusted opinion of several dead townies pointing fingers at folks based on what we know to be at least genuine suspicion is vital for solving a game when the dead cannot speak.
But the word of the dead is not law. And I know damned well that scumbags use the opinions of the dead in their favor to bolster their cases. Well, I’m just doing what dead townie said to do.
That’s not what real townies do. Real townies consider the opinions of the dead and then also consider what if they’re wrong. They take into account events that have happened since that person’s death. What if the dead person would have changed their mind? They’d be spinning in their grave that their innocent mistakes are now being used to give credibility to the scumbags.
And that’s what this entire discussion today has been about, at least for choie; credibility.
First, she’s been using ShadowFacts’ credibility to bolster the argument that Red Skeezix must die.
Second, she’s been using Suburban Plankton’s apparent innocence to bolster the argument that I have no idea what I’m talking about.
It’s all a political campaign to smear an opponent. That’s what politicians do when they run out of ideas. They start quoting the ideas of politicians that people DO respect who HAD ideas, and start smearing their opponents. Sometimes on a personal level, when the character of their opponent isn’t even the relevant issue.
I really dislike politicians. And I dislike character assassination. And I dislike the weak, SLIMY crutch of using the words of dead heroes to push a crappy agenda. It happens all the time in politics. Founding fathers this, dead president that. It doesn’t matter if their advice is 200 years out of date, and that this person could have a completely different opinion, or might think the advocate in question is an extremist. It doesn’t matter.
Ideas that cannot stand on their own are bad ideas.
Resorting to a smear campaign, ad hominem attacks, saying someone is guilty because dead townie says so, saying not to listen to a scanned townie because said townie was wrong, and completely distorting the facts of the entire game, all of those things are completely bleeping anti-town.
And I’ve had my fill of it, in-game and out-of-game. Apology accepted, but that doesn’t make your moves any less of a desperate attempt to save the game for your team.
I cannot trust you to win the game for the town, after you abandoned it and refused to take a stand. The only thing you’re willing to take a stand on right now is the extremely weak case against the still inactive Red Skeezix, who it should be painfully obvious is innocent based on the beguiler role description which protects against vigilantism, the fact that he did attack ShadowFacts as he said, the fact that his claimed attack on the godfather exposed the godfather, the fact that **no one has bothered to stand up for him **except one scanned townie, and his inactivity.
These are all points in his favor. Against? He has failed to successfully kill.
Failed to successfully kill in a game with a** paranoid doctor**, townie roleblockers, scum roleblockers, a** vig-immune godfather**, and 2 nights of inactivity.
That’s your* rock solid *case?
Oh, and you think Hirka T’Bawa is scum but you got all distressed when I voted for him? Yeah give me a break.
You know what’s really happening here? Last chance to win the game for the town.
The scums have now demonstrated NightKill and DayKill powers. They’re killing 2 per phase and they’ve got 3-4 remaining members.
Red Skeezix has to die so they can win the game.
Choie and Hirka and Diver will not accept any other outcome. They also have been cuddling each other so much, I can barely tell them apart anymore. And they all loved septimus very, very much, and septimus loved them very, very much.
Here’s what needs to happen. choie gotta go, Hirka T’Bawa gotta get vig-killed, and then Diver needs to sleep with the fishes.
For the defenders of De’endee,
Times are looking grim these days
Holding on to everything
It’s hard to draw the line…
And if the events of today and the past several phases haven’t convinced you, then only Red Skeezix popping townie will convince you, if that. Ask yourself this: Who are his teammates? Ask yourself this: Who is mafia if he is not?
[spoiler]*I’d hate for town to get it wrong
and cut me right back down to size
Waste the round let it fade
No one left to save this place
No one lives, no one will
Except Lords of Slaughter killing you
What will you say? What will you do
When they waste this town
Cause I don’t wanna let them slaughter this town
It’s taken me all this time to find out who they are
I don’t wanna let them slaughter this town
It’s taken me all this all this time
There is no blame only shame
When I give reasons you just complain
More I come more I try
All townies are paranoid
So am I - so’s the future
So are you - be a creature
What will you say? What will you do
When they waste this town
Cause I don’t wanna let them slaughter this town
It’s taken me all this time to find out who they are
I don’t wanna let them slaughter this town
It’s taken me all this all this time
I don’t wanna see you back down from this case
I don’t wanna see the end of this town, this town…* [/spoiler]
One last thing. I was all set to congratulate you on a wonderful, phenomenal performance this game; not only that, but being bolder, more manipulative, more dangerous, and more cunning than ANY mafioso I’ve played against in the past three years and over 100 games, on your first game alone.
You really are that damned good if you are scum. You ARE. Don’t you dare sell yourself short.
But I do wish you hadn’t gone and made things personal, that’s not a fun way to play games. And I wish you hadn’t brought up track record for this game as a reason why people shouldn’t listen to me, because my record is at least as good as yours, and I have one further. Let’s talk about my track record, for real.
[ul]
[li]I **wager **all the games where I personally led the lynch of every single scumbag in the game, that there is at least *one *guilty between choie, Hirka, and Diver.[/li]
[/ul]
[ul]
[li]I **wager **my and my team’s performance in Capo III that you’ve got *two *scumbags between choie, Hirka, and Diver.[/li][/ul]
-Factionheir- Made (my suggestion, vote)
[COLOR=Blue]-Yaropolk- Townie (my kill)
-CountArach- Communist (my suggestion, tied vote)[/COLOR]
-GeneralHankerchief- Luca (tied vote)
-Discovery1- Luca (assist, vote)
-Atheotes- Don (vote)
-AVSM- Affiliated wise (my suggestion, tied vote)
-Kagemusha- Affiliated wise (tied vote)
-Khazaar- Affiliated wise (my suggestion, organized vig kill)
-Scottishranger- Luca (organized vig)
-Rhyfelwyr- Communist (my suggestion, vote)
-Ironside- Luca (Director kill, I couldn’t vote but I approved)
-shlin28- townie (my suggested solo vig action)
-DJGingivitis- Don (Director kill, I couldn’t vote but I approved)
-DisgruntledGoat- Don (my suggested vig action)
-Lord Winter- Made (my suggestion, vote)
-Ichigo- Luca (my suggested vig action)
-Centurion1- Made (my suggestion, vote)
-Pannonian- Inactive Detective (my kill)
-El Diablo- wiseguy (my suggestion, vote)
-woad&fangs- Made (my organized vig kill)
-Xehh II- Serial Killer (my suggestion, vote, even got a confession out of him personally)
-Crazed Rabbit- Affiliated wiseguy (my suggestion, tied vote)
-Sasaki Kojiro- Traitorous doc (tied vote)
-Chaotix- Communist (my suggestion, vote)
-splitpersonality- Communist (my suggestion to FBI, I also did CIA hit)
-Haudegen- The Capo di Tutti Capi (my suggested vig hit, my repeated suggestion for lynch, game winning lynch.)
[ul]
[li]I **wager **my silence for the rest of the game if I am wrong that Red Skeezix is innocent.[/li][/ul]
[ul]
[li]I’m willing to personally apologize to everyone here if all three of Hirka, Diver, and choie are not guilty.[/li][/ul]
unvote: Diver
vote: choie
Lock.
