De'endee Mafia

Here’s something very interesting for you guys to chew on.

That is one hell of a prediction.

I really would have *assumed *that he *didn’t pull off a vig kill *and that the scums in fact pulled off a kill on Suburban while they blocked Stickler, and Red was inactive.

That, is, one, hell, of, a, prediction.

This indicates to me that choie might have inside knowledge that the kill on Plankton was a **vigilante **kill, not a Lord of Slaughter kill. That would indicate to me that she is, indeed, a scumbag suffering from perfect information syndrome. Or she’s a far more clever player than I am, it seems.
If Red is scum then I doubt that choie is. However, if Red is not scum, choie probably is.

(I think? Do I really think they both are? No. Because if choie flips scum, then Red is going to get lynched tomorrow when he doesn’t kill himself. This is terrible strategy.)
I leave the decision in your hands. I really, really did not expect Red Skeezix to have performed a vig-kill last night, and the only way he did so as a townie would have been if he sent it in in advance. However, the beguiler role description and this nugget from choie steadies my hand.

I’m shaken, and I’m far less confident. I still think it could be choie, but if it is not, then it probably is Red Skeezix, and we will find out in short order.

**As for what I’d advise… **
[ul]
[li]If **choie **flips scum, you destroy Hirka or Diver ASAP.[/li][li]If **choie **does not, and **Red **does not, then it probably still is **Hirka **or Diver.[/li][li]If choie does not and Red does, then look at the folks trying to save him right now.[/li][/ul]

As for who to lynch, I still maintain that the scumbags were pushing Skeezix toward his death before septimus died and afterward, and at least I know that a townie pushed for choie for death. I’d bet on the townie’s judgment over the scum’s, because the scums know exactly what to do to make you die, even if it means WIFOM.

At this point I am expecting more bad news is coming for us. Keep your eyes on Hirka and Diver regardless, but if you have to lynch Red Skeezix tomorrow and he flips scum, you’ve got a MUCH better read on who his teammates are.

If choie is scum, it’s possible they lose their ability to roleblock Skeezix or Inner, and then either Inner survives or Skeezix does. I’d prefer Inner survives so I feel it would be best to allow Skeezix to self-vig, and Inner should protect himself.
If I’ve been a big fat idiot ever since septimus died, then at least you guys will have someone to blame if this all goes south. I can accept that blame, too. That said if Red Skeezix was townie, then all the attempts to lynch anyone but Skeezix were a good idea, we just got doubly unlucky that not only was Skeezix not mafia, but the counterwagons weren’t either. And that means we’ve been severely outplayed, and that means we deserve the loss anyway.

I need to see choie or Hirka or Diver’s card to move forward, and some of you need to see Skeezix’ card. Either lynch could be good, either lynch could be bad. If choie hadn’t acted the way she acted all game, and then today, I might be happier about reversing and saying be done with Skeezix, but if Skeezix is townie, choie looks much, much worse. And I still think Skeezix is townie, though I’ve become far less certain.

If the scumbags only have daykills, you actually have a solid chance of winning the game anyway because of your leads, your confirmed townies, your more trustworthy townies, and only 1 non-lynch kill per phase after Skeezix’ death.

Which by the way, in all 3 of my scenarios, Hirka looks bad. If choie is scum, if she’s not, if Red and choie both are not scum.

He seems to be in keeping his head down mode. He’s not bothered to defend himself against my accusation, only weakly shift his vote.

Very slimy. Looks worse than Diver. Possibly worse than choie, because choie’s voting pattern has been against Normal Phase rather consistently. Hirka’s vote pattern is more incriminating than choies, but choie’s above quote makes me flinch.

But this is also interesting in retrospect.

Either the lords had caught someone out and about at night, OR
They had dragged them away.

That seems to indicate to me that we do indeed have a day kill coming our way.

What makes it look bad for Red Skeezix is the “tortured screams” and the “mutilated” description.

As some would say, color is just color… or is it?

Well, the thing about the writeup is that the game host can’t tell us if there was a lord of slaughter killed, or a townie, at least not right away, apparently. How to cover it up, story-wise, is to suggest that the body was too mutilated to be recognized.

That means it’s a device explaining why you don’t immediately know if this was a townie or a Lord that died. Which renders it a null-tell.

But the color also indicates we have a day-kill coming our way.

Which means guess what.
[ul]
[li]The Lords blocked Inner Stickler.[/li][li]The Lords are performing a Day kill.[/li][li]And Red Skeezix was busy last night killing Suburban, meaning he is NOT our day-killer.[/li][/ul]
If he’s scum, he’s the night killer, and the day killer had to level up to begin day killing.

If he’s not scum, then the Lords of Slaughter only have one kill, still.

As such, it can be argued that even if Red is townie, lynching him is not game-ending because you have more phases than I predicted remaining.

But it also can be argued that we know he’s not the Day Killer and that the beguiler seemed to have anti-vig powers.

Why does everything have two reasonable points of view? Damn it, I keep looking for a clear sign…

Lynching Red Skeezix isn’t as bad as I thought, but time is still of the essence and choie predicting that Sub was Skeezix’ doing it as a vigilante action intrigues me.

My question for Red Skeezix is, why did he attack Suburban Plankton as a vigilante action? He didn’t address his pro-town reasons for attacking SP in his post, or when he sent in his action, or what post or posts prompted that selection.

Grumble, grumble.

There’s a lot of technical reasons why Red Skeezix makes a fine lynch today, and it all weighs against the beguiler role description as the only true trump card I have, which makes him a crappy lynch if that assumption holds true.

Is color just color? But the description wasn’t “color”, per se, it was information taken from a monster manual, and that info was used to build the beguiler role in-game. As such, I trust it more than “color”.
[ul]
[li]Well, if I’m wrong on choie and Red is still around tomorrow, he’s likely scum and likely dead meat, and I won’t argue one word to stop you, that’s a promise promise, dead or alive. That’s still one scumbag dead in the next two lynches, with my apologies for delaying it so long. That’s not a great outcome but that’s 2/4 with good chances for the remainder, because Red Skeezix is one of the two mafia murderers if he’s mafia. Which gives you more remaining phases than I predicted. And you now have some leads on who his possible remaining mates are.[/li][/ul]

[ul]
[li]If I’m wrong on choie and Red is telling the truth, and he dies, then the scums only have 1 kill at the present time and that one is being done by the day killer. And I’m starting to think that “delayed block” guy is actually leveled up to become “delayed kill” guy. That could fully explain that mechanism. So there’s still more remaining phases than I predicted.[/li][/ul]

[ul]
[li]If I’m right on choie, then Red is unlikely to be scum, and you’re going to be 2/4 at the end of this round and in much better shape.[/li][/ul]

Leaning choie today, Red tomorrow if he’s alive. Hirka/Diver if choie was scum.

Last thought of the night, I promise:

In my view, the odds of us being wrong on both choie and Red Skeezix are actually fairly good right now, better than I’ve ever thought. As that option hasn’t been explored very well by anyone, I would use the remaining time this round to talk about it, and also decide if Red’s move is an icy gambit, or if he is a townie, and also, if we wouldn’t be better off just killing him anyway to remove that question mark from our minds forever.

I want choie dead, Hirka would also be a fine choice but he’s harder to lynch now. I can live with Red Skeezix dying with the new information, and finally, I think it should be one of these three.

Make the move you think is the very best, go against my wishes if you need to. I’m not as confident anymore anyway.

Argh! Pizza, why didn’t you choose Hirka over choie? He’s about the only one who looks scummy to me regardless of Red’s alignment. I sure as heck hope choie is a scumbag right at the moment, but it will surprise me. There are now 8 votes on her, six of them locked in (from Inner, you, and gnarly), the other two from me and Hirka. Where do any of Inner, gnarly OR Hirka get the justification to immediately change votes to choie (and lock in, in two cases)? Choie’s the only choice all of a sudden?

God, I hope there was a daykill, and it was of me. I am not getting this game, and I just want the pain to end. At this point I would buy a scum team of Inner, Red, MG, and a recruited you, you know what I mean? This is BS.

Red has no excuse for the timing of his supposed order:

The last day ended Thursday. He wasn’t away during the whole night. He didn’t mention sending his order in early, nor should he have had any justification for vigging Suburban prior to seeing who died and how they flipped – I mean heck, he was one of the candidates himself right up until the very last second!

unvote
vote: Red Skeezix

I want to lock in, but I’m too frazzled to do it in my current mental state.

Remorseful Vig, is that what it’s called?

This seems like a very doubtful claim to me. For one, it looks exactly like the previous kills. It could just be a feature of night-time kills in this game, but the gruesomely hacking people to pieces looks more like the MO of a particular killer to me.

Secondly, I think you would have mentioned that before. People were offering suggestions, verging on orders in some cases, on who you should kill, and you didn’t want to say “BTW, if I kill the wrong person, I’m dead”. Though maybe you weren’t ever going to follow those suggestions anyway.

Thirdly, pedescribe seems like a reckless choice for a remorseful vig. There was no particular reason to think he was scum and the idea he might be scum wasn’t one of the reasons you gave for targetting him.

Then there is still the lack of kill on the night when Shadowfacts didn’t block you.

Set against that, you’ve voted for yourself twice. If that’s a bluff, it’s a pretty risky one.

We could lynch someone else in his place today, and see if Red survives the night or not. But if I think he is probably scum, I may as well just vote to lynch him now. If he is town, he won’t survive anyway.

vote Red Skeezix

second vote, locking in.

Vote Count

Red Skeezix (9): Choie [2223], USCDiver [2226], Weedy [2249], Mental Guy [2320], Stanislaus [2349], Red Skeezix [2373], Red Skeezix [2373], Normal Phase [2385], Weedy [2386]

Choie (7): gnarlycharlie [2280], Askthepizzaguy [2281], Askthepizzaguy [2321], Hirka T’Bawa [2375], gnarlycharlie [2376], Inner Stickler [2378], Inner Stickler [2378]

Mental Guy (1): Hirka T’Bawa [2227]

With these votes, Red Skeezix would be lynched. Day ends in 8 hours at 5 pm central time.
(Also, as a side note, I’m currently sick as a dog, and didn’t wake up soon enough to write the color before going to work. If I can Mahaloth to take care of the color, you guys will get it promptly at 5. If not, you’ll have to wait until I get home, which is a couple hours after the Day end. Either way, day ends at 5, and no further votes will be counted at that time. Sorry to inconvenience you guys)

I’m not going to have much free time today.

Good points about the timing and about the risk for a remorseful Vig in going after pedescribe.

vote Red Skeezix

locking in

Arrrgh I don’t know what to do. Red Skeezix’s latest tale makes sense, I guess, but I’ve never read of a kamikaze vigilante before, so I have no idea. The double-voting himself is such a bold move if he’s scum I can hardly believe it. Then again, at least some scummy folks seemed to have bussed their godfather, so these Lords of Slaughter are clearly cold-hearted sumbitches willing to pull anything to win.

(Oops, on edit: just checked the Mafia wiki and Remorseful Vigilante is apparently a thing. So … I guess that lends further credence to his story? And yet I see that Stanislaus doesn’t think so. Jeebus I am so freakin’ confused…)

Again you’re giving me waaaaaaaaaay too much credit. All I was doing was hedging my bets and giving Red one last benefit of the doubt 'cause that’s how I roll (as you can see by my chart, I have yet to double vote anyone).

Besides, I don’t get this logic at all. How did my comment have anything to do with Suburban Plankton’s death? Isn’t the color stating that Suburban was killed by the Lords of Slaughter? And Suburban was obviously not a delayed kill – he was alive yesterDay, and he was found dead when the Night was over. Ergo he was killed at night, and according to color, it was by the Lords of Slaughter.

Besides, would a town vigilante really torture/mutilate his victim?! Only if he’s modelled after Dexter, heh.

Anyway, the sad thing is that I’m still torn over Red Skeezix. Right now the person who seems scummier to me is Hirka, and his double-voting of me doesn’t help (admittedly that’s kind of OMGUSish but when you know you’re innocent, you’re bound to feel suspicious of someone who’s rooting for your death). But there’s really no point in voting for Hirka considering the vote count right now. I’d be throwing my votes away.

(That’s why I hate this double-voting thing so much – coupled with everyone rushing to lock in so early, it’s like we’re on a runaway train and momentum is pushing us to do things in a hurry with no way of rescinding their decisions.)

So since I’m one of the few who hasn’t locked in yet, I’ll tell ya what I’m gonna do. I’m going to

unvote Red Skeezix

And will leave my votes in pizza and Normal’s hands. I know pizza is town and I’m still waffling on Normal, but pizza certainly thinks she’s town.

If my death is really that optimal – if you’d rather have a confirmed town dead (and that’s what’s gonna happen) – then say the word and I’ll double-vote myself. This assumes that Red Skeezix as hypothetical vigilante is more believable than me as townie, and certainly more valuable (although he hasn’t managed a kill yet). Honestly I don’t know what value my vlipping town will do for you; what info will you have by my death when I flip town? (I know you don’t believe I’ll flip town, but I’m going to.) Anyway, all this is to say that if my death will benefit town in a real way, I’ll toss my votes to myself. I’d rather be dead than ignored anyway.

If you’re 50-50 and you think I should vote Red, tell me and I’ll lock in on him. I don’t think it will matter because the choiewagon has more momentum than the Redwagon, and with the votes close enough I think the few undecideds will lean towards me anyway. But I do think it’s likely Red is scum, so I’ll feel find about voting for him.

As I said, if I had my druthers and thought it could make a difference, I’d be tossing a vote to Hirka now. But that’d be the equivalent of voting Green Party in 2000 – not practical and could end up screwing things up for everyone!

Ugh, everyone’s gonna be at work all day today so we won’t get many posts by Day’s end, will wel? (Seems to me that ideally Days should end on Saturdays.)

Anyway, go for it, pizza and Normal. Tell me what to do. Unlike ShadowFacts, I will ]do what you guys recommend. (I think the poor innocent schnook helped engineer his own death by being so stubborn and not ceding his votes when he should have.)

(If the two of you differ – e.g. Normal thinks I should vote one way and pizza another, I’ll have to lean to pizza since he’s confirmed town.)

Of course if everyone really is ignoring me then this post is useless. Without any instructions I’ll vote Red Skeezix. I ain’t that much of a masochist. :slight_smile:

Damn, I missed the edit window. I want to change this part:

To this:

The reason I wanted to edit it is 'cause it wasn’t fair of me to put it the way I did. Obviously you don’t want a fellow townie dead. That’s what’ll happen when you lynch me, but you don’t know that. So it’s fairer to say that if you would rather have me dead than Red, if my death and the info gained thereafter will be of more value to you than Red’s death, tell me and I’ll vote for myself.

So yeah. That’s what I should have said. Sorry.

I really don’t like anything of what’s giong on just now; I feel like whatever I do is going to be the wrong decision. It’s just feelign like that kind of game to me at the moment.

I am probably going to vote Red when I come back from lunch. I do like Weedy’s post a lot, the point about Pedescribe especially. It cuts through some of the clutter, I think.

choie, I’m listening, I’m just not entirely sure what to say.

This is just getting ridiculous.

Vote Red Skeezix

Locked in

Well, I agree with you on that.

Back in a while.

I am at work so don’t have much time, but I still think Red should be lynched toDay.

However, I was thinking that he was saying that some of those nights where he didn’t kill, he was not actually blocked, but simply didn’t kill since he was remorseful.

Still, I think his claim was just made up to try to fit into everything that has happened. So I am going to lock.

Vote Red Skeezix

Letting you guys know, day end color will definitely be delayed. Day still ends at 5 pm central time, a little under 4 hours from now.

vote: Red Skeezix

Lock.

unvote all
vote red skeezix
vote red skeezix

While I believe his claim, thinking we need to get rid of the distraction, and not like he’ll help us anymore anyhow.

I see.

Do you take offense if I think that post pretty much solidifies my feeling that you should be next, regardless how Red flips?

Offense? No, it is just a game. I know I haven’t played as well as I should have this game, and honestly, some of the cases made against me make sense. If I didnt know I was town, I could see myslef being convinced by yalls case.

I probably shouldn’t have signed up as a sub in this game, since it has taken place during all the studying and boards I’ve had to do after graduation. But, either way, at least my playing is better then a modkill of a vanilla town. (I hope).

{hijack]

With other larger games starting all over the place. I’m trying to run a game on idlemafia. It has mild recruiting in it, and what I think is an ingenious et-up (designed by someone else, not me)

Come sign up. You’ll probably be dead in other games soon enough anyway.

[/hijack]