The next part; my comments are prior to the quotes they refer to.
I haven’t really been paying much attention to Kelly.
At this point, the votes on Kelly have put him into the lead for quite some time (I think, no tally in front of me) and therefore Kelly has experienced all the pressure he’s going to experience. Further, while pressuring people is useful in shaking things loose, there’s a point where it doesn’t do anything more, especially if said person is innocent. Further, since Kelly is the leader, my options have been to either follow the wagon or generate alternatives. I’ve been focusing my attention on that.
In passing, I haven’t seen anything from Kelly that either condemns or exonerates him. But I don’t really expect to; Kelly would have to be a rather bad player to give away something incriminating if he is guilty, simply because he’s under pressure on day one. Best move is to play it cool, and I think he’s done that. Same is true if you’re innocent, panicking just makes things worse.
I don’t really have a conclusion on Kelly. I won’t be voting Kelly just to spare myself, though. I am aware that I’m either the first or second place candidate now, but that doesn’t make Kelly any more or less guilty. I could go over Kelly’s posts and point out anything I see, if you’re interested. I’d caution you that there probably isn’t/really shouldn’t be anything to see, given that Kelly has been the lynch leader all round and hasn’t overreacted.
I play a lot of mafia with ATPG (Askthepizzaguy) on other sites, and it’s typical of him to pressure vote like this (and move around his vote a lot). Of course he will do the same as Scum, so it’s a null tell here, in my opinion.
I also agree with the reasoning that voting other players for pressure can be good, specially in the early game where cases aren’t strong anyway. I can’t blame ATPG for raising a 2nd lynch candidate here, by putting another vote on Koldanar. We did get reaction - information - from it, didn’t we?
Hrm, alright. I can see aggressivity in Kelly asking for examples, as it happened.
fair enough, of course, I’m a little surprised when you state that the pressure Kelly is under shouldn’t influence reactions from Kelly.
I’m left to infer that you think that pressure can create discussion and worthwhile reactions, but not vote-leading pressure? (unless a player is bad) Or do you mean that applying pressure only results in useful reactions from bad players, and you don’t expect Kelly to be a bad player, but others possibly are?
Like a fungus?
Here’s a tally.
4 KellyCriterion (Normal Phase #196, ShadowFacts #197, Stanislaus #204, choie #247)
3 ATPG (gnarlycharlie #228, Koldanar #238, septimus #248)
2 Koldanar (Scathach #211, ATPG #225)
2 Normal Phase (KellyCriterion #213, Silver Jan #227)
1 Silver Jan (Red Skeezix #250)
10 no vote (everyone else)
Post before the game.
Reading anything into this would be disingenuous. Townies phrase their posts like this all the time.
I generally find Kelly to be a bit FOS-happy. FoS doesn’t do much except say “I’ll be voting for you soon, but I have bigger fish to fry.”
It’s sort of odd to point fingers on day one when you could be doing that via vote. What’s a bigger priority than voting for people you want to FOS, when you haven’t voted yet?
I don’t see the logic there. But maybe it is Kelly’s style. I don’t know Kelly yet. But although this seems unorthodox to me, it also doesn’t strike me as anything particularly incriminating. Pointing fingers (though preferably with your vote) is a good thing.
There’s nothing here that is anything different from what a townie would say.
This strikes me as having a fun-loving personality. Nothing unusual here.
The OMGUS/OMGYS vote: Possible eyebrow furrowing. However, I employ this tactic constantly, because (notoriously) my play is often mistaken for scummy behavior, and that means I am an easy vote for scummy types to lock onto. Therefore, there are often scum on my wagon. I can give you 10 examples without breaking a sweat.
Therefore, for me, and lately, OMGYS is a good idea. And if you’re scum, OMGYS works to get rid of those who are voting for you and obviously not your partner. It can be effective either way.
To conclude that Kelly is guilty or innocent based on this is a bit of a stretch.
However, Kelly is voting for Normal Phase, and Normal Phase is my snuggle bunny. Bad Kelly.
I have seen examples of scumbags asking innocent sounding questions before.
However, innocents do this as well. Conclusions are still elusive.
Almost seems to be deliberately avoiding addressing the pressure on him.
I would characterize this as possibly deliberate behavior. I don’t know Kelly or how he reacts to pressure though, so this is a more in-general comment.
I think people should react to pressure on them, if they have a chance. Not focus solely on it, but they should react. In general, I would find this scummy, or more so over anything else Kelly has done. But on the scummy scale, it still ranks about a 2/10. Nothing earth-shattering.
Still a bit chatty regarding a nothing point. I don’t see how this line of questioning will lead to scums being lynched. Maybe this is for Kelly’s own personal curiosity.
I would prefer to see more reaction. However, this is just my preference, and aside from accusing one of his accusers, I haven’t seen a salient point against Kelly that Kelly could refute anyway. So expecting a grand refutation of the case on Kelly seems unrealistic.
Everything Kelly has done has been within a range I’d consider normal. Nothing Kelly has done has made me think “Oh, I’d better do what I can to prevent their lynch” or “I’d better make sure this person dies”.
In all, I’d suggest that if Kelly is guilty, he’s going down soon anyway, without leaving much of a trace of his guilt. And good for him if so. Or, he’s innocent.
It’s day one, again, not much to analyze. That’s why I don’t rely purely on analysis this early. Sometimes you shot-in-the-dark and see who reacts to the pressure, or who reacts to your behavior.
I consider that talking aloud to no-one-in-particular thing that septimus did to be far scummier than anything Kelly did. That speaks of fakery. I still need to get to know septimus, but I’ve seen it too often from fake fake fakes in my time to just let it slide, especially for a day one no-one-better situation.
Koldanar has been wiggling a bit too. No more than I’d expect, but still wiggling. At least he’s registering a reaction, as are others, which is 90% of the point of voting for him.
No, it should, at least at first. But when he’s been the leader this whole time, the initial shock can wear off.
If it were me, I’d be cracking jokes and ignoring the whole thing, as scum or town. I’d be more focused on offense than defense. Of the two, Kelly is more focused on OMGUS-ing Normal Phase, which is technically offense.
He’s doing absolutely nothing defense-wise. And the pressure is already at maximum, so I don’t think you’re going to see any further “reactions” from Kelly. That’s what I mean when I say that the sort of situation that Kelly is in is unlikely to generate more reactions we can analyze. It’s all been done already. This is all you’re going to get.
Askthepizzaguy, I’m getting a sense of your defense and we’ve had “stir the pot” type players on these boards before (most notably, IMO, peekercpa). So my suspicion of you is starting to lessen with your explanations. However, I still can’t quite get over this contradiction that septimus pointed out earlier. You said:
Allow me to summarize the problem I see with your explanation:
(paraphrasing)
- I prefer to lead cases as opposed to following others. (OK, no problem).
- I tried to lead with Skeezix, but nothing was happening. (OK, no problem).
- Kelly was getting enough heat, so I wanted to put pressure on someone else. (OK, no problem).
- So, vote Koldanar. (Problem!)
If you haven’t figured it out yet, the problem I see is that your actions pretty much directly contradict your words in the same post. If you don’t want to follow others, why did you follow the case against Koldanar? To use your own explanation, “[You] have no idea if [people accusing Koldanar] are guilty, and if they are, then the odds are poorer that I’d be wagoning a guilty person, just by virtue of the fact that the evildoers are not as likely to point fingers at their buddies.”
I’d like to hear your explanation for this.
I’m a big hypocrite.
The sad truth here is that I hadn’t even noticed Koldanar got a vote before I voted him. Others had mentioned suspecting Koldanar, but didn’t vote him. I actually thought I was being the leader.
Looking back, Scathach’s vote wasn’t bolded, and I was skimming. Easy to miss.
I do see what askthepizzaguy is saying about Septimus. The case had a bit of a rhetorical air to it. I almost always find Septimus scummy, at least at first, but I’ll buy that he’s worth paying attention to.
On re-read, it was Normal Phase and the Scath who suspected Koldanar “but didn’t vote him”, and I didn’t even see that Scath actually voted him. Those are the two I was referring to.
Bold yer votes people.
This is just a quick post to say I am properly in the game again, Daughter and Grandson are fine so time to read in detail.
BTW I think I gave Pede a free pass cos I felt sorry for him in the other game, bad play I know but my mind was elsewhere but I am seriuolsy back now.
Unvote Normal Phase
It was a bad vote because it was metagaming and an OMGUS for the FOS.
I do have a question to ask but I think it might be anti Town to ask it, do I go ahead and share my thoughts or do I just keep quiet?
If it’s a rules question you can just ask Astral or mahaloth by PM; otherwise, there’s no way for anyone else to answer.
Ah, crap.
For the record
unvote special ed
Is everyone happy now?
I got sucked into meetings for most of the morning, so I will now try to catch up during lunch.
It’s just something that’s bugging me but it could be from a Town power role or Scum!
Scum are more tuned in to power role tells than the town are anyway, all else being equal. But again it’s your judgment.
Ok, this is the post that is worrying me, I tried to bring it up earlier but Romanic didn’t answer my question, **gnarlychalie
** did but I really did know what a level cap meant lol, I wanted more information from **Romanic **and I didn’t get any. I am now in a quandary, I don’t know why either Scum or Town would bring it up? 