De'endee Mafia

[Normal_Phase]

Oh, I don’t see that as any kind of tell, just a D&D in joke.

[Silver_Jan]

Thanks Normal, it has just been at the back of my mind since I first read it

[Suburban_Plankton]

@Askthepizzaguy

The OMGUS/OMGYS vote: Possible eyebrow furrowing. However, I employ this tactic constantly, because (notoriously) my play is often mistaken for scummy behavior, and that means I am an easy vote for scummy types to lock onto. Therefore, there are often scum on my wagon. I can give you 10 examples without breaking a sweat.

10 examples without breaking a sweat? Shouldn’t be too much of a task to link to some examples, then?

(I keed, I keed)

The issue with your votes is that here it’s generally considered ‘bad form’ to make votes without any sort of justification. Even on Day 1, when “because the voices tell me to” is generally just as good a reason as any else, we like for there to be ‘something’ behind every vote. Your initial vote on **Skeezix **was I think properly viewed as a ‘joke vote’, but your vote on **Koldanar **appeared to have nothing at all to support it, so it was not appreciated.

[Stanislaus]

@ShadowFacts

If you haven’t figured it out yet, the problem I see is that your actions pretty much directly contradict your words in the same post. If you don’t want to follow others, why did you follow the case against Koldanar? To use your own explanation, “[You] have no idea if [people accusing Koldanar] are guilty, and if they are, then the odds are poorer that I’d be wagoning a guilty person, just by virtue of the fact that the evildoers are not as likely to point fingers at their buddies.”

I’d like to hear your explanation for this.

@Askthepizzaguy

I’m a big hypocrite.

The sad truth here is that I hadn’t even noticed Koldanar got a vote before I voted him. Others had mentioned suspecting Koldanar, but didn’t vote him. I actually thought I was being the leader.

Looking back, Scathach’s vote wasn’t bolded, and I was skimming. Easy to miss.

I don’t think you’ve really addressed ShadowFacts points here. Even if you thought you were the first to actually vote, you were taking your lead in who to vote for from two other players - either of whom, as you’ve acknowledged, might be scum setting up an innocent townie. But not only does this not give you pause, you’ve claimed that their suspicion of Koldanar was a big factor in your choice of him.

I can see that you’ve got a well-developed theory of scum-hunting, and it’s consistent with your actions so far. But your confidence in Normal and Scathach’s honesty reduces my confidence in you. How worried were you that they were guilty, and you’d be kicking off a wagon on someone innocent?

[Silver_Jan]

I was just wondering about Askthepizzaguys really long post on defending Kelly. I know he was asked what his opinion was but he seemed to go into an awful lot of detail in defending her/him.

I was about to vote for Kelly because 20 minutes after receiving a vote s/he asked about handshakes. If that had been me I would have jumped up and down defending myself (check the Giraffe boards, I was in tears cos I was called scum{silly too})

I wonder if **ATPG **is just being contraversial.

That being said

Vote KellyCriterion

[special_ed]

@Silver_Jan

I was about to vote for Kelly because 20 minutes after receiving a vote s/he asked about handshakes. If that had been me I would have jumped up and down defending myself (check the Giraffe boards, I was in tears cos I was called scum{silly too})

After a while, getting voted just doesn’t seem as important.

Of course, to a newer player it really is. And to a newer Scum, it can induce real panic.

Even with all the games I’ve lost as Scum, I still get a little irritated when I’m Scum and someone votes for me for reasons that I know just aren’t right.

[Silver_Jan]

I am still new and it is important, I know I have one vote against me that was because I did not explain properly. I find it difficult to explain what I really mean (and this is a game of words?) When I have played scum I dream about the game, specially when Normal was after me (she is good), Special Ed, yourself doesn’t terrify me anymore although Moody does, what’s up with him in this game, what am I missing?

[Silver_Jan]

The fact that he isn’t in this game perhaps

[special_ed]

@Silver_Jan

The fact that he isn’t in this game perhaps

That is one of the few valid reasons for not participating.

[Trepa_Mayfield]

@Askthepizzaguy

<Atpg’s big long post that got snipped (by me)>

You sound…incredibly familiar. Do I know you from somewhere? Did you play in Spies 7? That’s the only place I think we could have met without knowing it.

@choie

Wow, an eventful evening, filled with new arrivals and discussion. Welcome, USCDiver, and also to Silver Jan’s grandchild!

I have to admit askthepizzaguy’s voting post took me aback, because it seemed so out-of-left-field and without rationale. Like he was just blindly playing Pin the Tail on the Donkey. Especially since I don’t see anything particularly scummy in Koldanar. However, it appears pizza is fashioning himself a shield by claiming to be an unknown entity but a superstar strategic player-- kinda like the old timey western card sharp riding in from out of town to show the rubes how poker is really played. “Ah, you don’t know me yet, but I have deep reasons for all I do!” And hell, maybe he does. I’m too inexperienced to recognize depth of play in this game. It’s just that his style of play reminds me more of Nomic – where it’s all about metagaming rather than actually analyzing posts.

Anyway, I’m not going to vote for him without hearing more from him. Thus far the only other person whose behavior seemed genuinely offputting was Kelly. I’m not 100% convinced by his explanation for his brusque demands and brush-off of Stanislaus. Okay, maybe he really was just playacting; maybe he’s just not a polite kind of forum personality. But my current theory is that the real reason he was behaving aggressively was to throw off suspicion of himself and stake his claim as being Uber Town Defender.

So shutting up and finally voting, I’ll

vote KellyCriterion.

And please forgive me if I’m wrong and he’s innocent. (Boy, I never expected voting to give me such a burden of responsibility! Well, this ain’t a real trial: we don’t have to vote guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, right?)

Most of this post is solid, but the last bit is weird. The voting mechanic is front and center, and of course townies get voted and killed. The people who pushed their bandwagons get looked at suspiciously, as well as the hangers-on who sealed the deal. That said, I can see choie, being a newbie, being surprised by the intensity of the game. No vote.

@septimus

Thus it seems almost certain to me that Askthepizzaguy is NOT a Town Power. But is he just a Vanilla who, despite much discussion, hasn’t considered the tactic needed by Town Powers, or is he Scum trying to discourage Vanilla from the late Lynchee vote? If Scum get away with such discouraging it will be very bad for Town, as one of three things will happen:
[ul][li] The late vote switch will be recognizable to Scum as strong evidence that the player has Power and hopes to gain a level.[/li][li] To prevent that inference, Powers will often have to forfeit opportunity for advancing a level.[/li][li] To get a good chance at the extra level, without the vote-switch that marks them as Power, the Town Powers will vote for who is likely to be Lynched, rather than who they really think is Scum.[/li][/ul]
I realize there are some arguments the other way, but the incentive for these vote switches is very strong, and may help Town a lot. Arguing against them so strongly, early and often, seems quite pro-Scum.

This is just plain wrong. You are conflating two ways one could get XP:
-Using a second vote on the Lynch Leader
-Switching their main vote to the lynch leader
Atpg came out against the first one only, yet you seem to think he disapproves of both.

@Askthepizzaguy

You’ve never been guilty before when people vote you on day one?

And this somehow makes you not-guilty now, I presume?

Gettin’ kinda tense, ain’tcha.

Oh please. As if analysis of your couple of posts, or anyone’s, is more productive than pressure voting at this stage of the game.

:rolleyes:

You’re certainly responding to pressure. And when this silly lynch of me or Kelly happens, I will ask that folks kindly remove their heads from their collective buttocks, and put even more pressure on you.

I think my actions are very good. You’re clearly squirming, I’d call it wriggling like a worm on a hook.

That’s a shame. Joke votes can catch scum just as well as “serious” ones, and you don’t have to bother with that pesky “reasoning” based on all of no activity or day one activity. There’s no deflecting a case when it’s based on “I just voted you, so there!”

Do you always beat yourself up as a sympathy-generating tactic, or are you only this manipulative when you’re a scumbag?

I’ll tell you what’s scummy and bad, selling yourself short. If you’re really such a “bad” player, you’re not giving me much reason to move my vote elsewhere in the first place (Like, I dunno, mindlessly wagoning Kelly just to save myself). I’d rather die and make it a statement about how much I’d want you to die after me.

If you’re not such a bad player, then selling yourself short is scummy.

“And seriously, don’t do that!”

I’ll get more into analysis later on in the game where there’s something to pattern. There’s precious little on day one, and I’m sure you’re all aware of this. However, my out-of-left-field reasonless pressure votes which you’re all kicking as being illogical are generating… you know… posts that we can analyze.

Did I just blow your mind? :eek:

Sure. They’re not me, and I’m not scum. Therefore there is a good chance someone else is.

Too far? You haven’t even seen me get warmed up.

I also particularly think you’re talking to no one in particular in this post, which is one of the classic signs of being a scumbag. Announcing what you’re doing, as if you’re putting on a performance on stage. It’s just bad acting, translated as text.

I’ll be suggesting you for a lynch at my earliest convenience. Unfortunately this wagon has rendered it inconvenient.

You seem to be occupying a state of quantum flux–your vote is simultaneously a jokey, pressure vote intended only to generate discussion, and yet also a solid vote based on a bevy of suspicious that add up to a position where no doubt is in your mind. So which is it?

@Askthepizzaguy

:dubious:

Let’s pretend we’re giving me the benefit of the doubt for a second.

I can do one of three things:

1. Vote someone that no one else has an interest in lynching, and is under no pressure from my vote due to Kellywagon
2. Vote someone that others have an interest in lynching, as there is a possibility that said person is guilty.
3. Do nothing

Which do you think is more productive?

There’s something else you failed to account for–a vote contains pressure all by itself, even if it is on it’s lonesome and not part of a bandwagon. Players feel compelled to defend votes on themselves, and it seems pressure voting would be less effective, not more, on someone who already has votes (since they were already provoked). Furthermore, whether or not others are interested in lynching a player has no bearing on how guilty they are or aren’t.

No, this is bad reasoning all the way around, even if I rather like the idea of pressure votes. Not that that’s necessarily suspicious, in and of itself.

[choie]

@pedescribe

Most of this post is solid, but the last bit is weird. The voting mechanic is front and center, and of course townies get voted and killed. The people who pushed their bandwagons get looked at suspiciously, as well as the hangers-on who sealed the deal. That said, I can see choie, being a newbie, being surprised by the intensity of the game. No vote.

Yep, that’s exactly what I meant: I’m surprised that I feel genuine guilt… like, personal, internal responsibility… for pulling a virtual trigger (or noose, I suppose) at someone in a make-believe game.

But then I’m the same person who hasmoral quandaries and crying jags about killing bugs, so let’s just say I have a rather embarrassingly advanced guilt complex!

[KellyCriterion]

Cool, looks like we almost have our lynch victim for day 1.

I’m wondering if I can confirm my alignment (of town) to other townies… I, uhh… “strongly suspect” other townies share my role, which means I’m going to throw in a last ditch effort to convert the unbelievers. So…

My role PM. Ignoring the bolded subject line, and copying and pasting from the very first character (or letter) of my role PM, and finishing at the very last character (or letter) of my role PM… generates an SHA1 hash tag, of which the first 3 characters are: 94f

If the mods have used letter-perfect copies of role PMs for this game, then there should be others here with the power to vindicate me, by copying and pasting their own role PMs in to the SHA1 converter, and confirming the first 3 characters of their hash tag.

If you’re convinced this is some uber meta-meta-game where I’m getting people to copy and paste the role PMs to me, you can surf around for other free online SHA1 converters.

*(“SHA1 hash tags” are a seemingly random 40 character string that get generated based on any sort of text input (letters, numbers, etc). Any such input can be turned in to an SHA1 tag, from a single letter (eg: Y) to the entire contents of the Great Library. All can be converted in to a 40 character string, of which, the process can not be reversed to find the original input).

[Scathach]

@KellyCriterion

Cool, looks like we almost have our lynch victim for day 1.

I’m wondering if I can confirm my alignment (of town) to other townies.. I, uhh.. “strongly suspect” other townies share my role, which means I’m going to throw in a last ditch effort to convert the unbelievers. So..

My role PM. Ignoring the bolded subject line, and copying and pasting from the very first character (or letter) of my role PM, and finishing at the very last character (or letter) of my role PM.. generates an SHA1 hash tag, of which the first 3 characters are: 94f

If the mods have used letter-perfect copies of role PMs for this game, then there should be others here with the power to vindicate me, by copying and pasting their own role PMs in to the SHA1 converter, and confirming the first 3 characters of their hash tag.

If you’re convinced this is some uber meta-meta-game where I’m getting people to copy and paste the role PMs to me, you can surf around for other free online SHA1 converters.

*(“SHA1 hash tags” are a seemingly random 40 character string that get generated based on any sort of text input (letters, numbers, etc). Any such input can be turned in to an SHA1 tag, from a single letter (eg: Y) to the entire contents of the Great Library. All can be converted in to a 40 character string, of which, the process can not be reversed to find the original input).

The very first post in the thread from Astral says that the mods have made every effort to prevent handshakes.

I think a town player trying to do a handshake would check the mods posts to see if it was possible. I think a scum player would fake it and then claim they didn’t see that rule in the hopes that other players would assume good intent.

** unvote koldanar
vote kellycriterion **

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

[USCDiver]

I’m here. I’ve been working all day. I was following pretty closely through yesterday afternoon and will do a little catch up as quickly as I can. Hopefully I can get through enough to make an intelligent vote before Dusk.

[special_ed]

Under no circumstances should anyone respond to this post with information from our own PMs. There is a chance it could differentiate power roles and non-power roles.

Also, the sample PM does not match this same hash tag.

This seems very odd after the discussion about handshaking. Especially given the fact that, if there is a universal PM, then with the moderators assurance that handshaking was taken into consideration, we must assume that the Scum are aware of this PM.

So, what is the point in attempting to handshake when we know it’s something that the moderators have made every attempt to nullify?

I’ve certainly learned my lesson to be careful about handshakes less you out power roles, and I’m exceptionally surprised that you’ve done so after the discussion earlier.

Vote: KellyCriterion

@KellyCriterion

Cool, looks like we almost have our lynch victim for day 1.

I’m wondering if I can confirm my alignment (of town) to other townies.. I, uhh.. “strongly suspect” other townies share my role, which means I’m going to throw in a last ditch effort to convert the unbelievers. So..

My role PM. Ignoring the bolded subject line, and copying and pasting from the very first character (or letter) of my role PM, and finishing at the very last character (or letter) of my role PM.. generates an SHA1 hash tag, of which the first 3 characters are: 94f

If the mods have used letter-perfect copies of role PMs for this game, then there should be others here with the power to vindicate me, by copying and pasting their own role PMs in to the SHA1 converter, and confirming the first 3 characters of their hash tag.

If you’re convinced this is some uber meta-meta-game where I’m getting people to copy and paste the role PMs to me, you can surf around for other free online SHA1 converters.

*(“SHA1 hash tags” are a seemingly random 40 character string that get generated based on any sort of text input (letters, numbers, etc). Any such input can be turned in to an SHA1 tag, from a single letter (eg: Y) to the entire contents of the Great Library. All can be converted in to a 40 character string, of which, the process can not be reversed to find the original input).

[TexCat]

At least this sheds some light on that entire conversation that Kelly and Ed had about handshaking. Are you claiming vanilla town, Kelly? Or are you trying to claim that you are a mason of some very odd sort?

[Trepa_Mayfield]

@TexCat

At least this sheds some light on that entire conversation that Kelly and Ed had about handshaking. Are you claiming vanilla town, Kelly? Or are you trying to claim that you are a mason of some very odd sort?

If she claims mason I’m voting for her. I couldn’t design a set of crazy-ass masons that would require hash tag handshakes.

[KellyCriterion]

I didn’t know what a handshake was until less than 24 hours ago, so any specified details in relation to handshakes in the OP is, and was, meaninglessly unmemorable to me. Either the scum are beautifully manipulating this game to get an easy town kill on day 1, or I should stick to playing Nintendo for my gaming fix, coz every move I make as an innocent townie is apparently looking scummy. God only knows what my play would look like if I was intentionally trying to look scummy.

I don’t really know what moves I have left at this point. Here’s my PM, which the mods have confirmed I can repost:

Class: NPC Townsperson
Alignment: Defenders of De’endee
Role: NPC
Win Condition: You win when all threats to the Defenders of De’endee are vanquished and at least one member of the Defenders of De’endee is still alive.
Powers: None.

Note the last two bullet points have been “switched” compared to the vanilla townie role posted by Astral. I thought the mods had “goofed” when I noticed this difference, and I hoped to use this difference as a means to flag my towniness to the other townies.

After my conversation with special ed, I discovered that sometimes the mods “mix up” the same role PM, to “avoid handshakes”. I had no memory of reading in the OP that steps were taken to prevent handshakes. This is obvious from a PM I sent to the mods prior, clearly naive about it:

Hi Astral/Mahaloth,

I note that my role PM is slightly different to the vanilla role you posted in the thread. (Powers and Win Condition are out of order). Can I use this information in the thread to flag my towniness to other townies?

Astral responded and said I could share such info “If you feel it’s prudent”. Astral then referred me to rule #8:

You may discuss any communications with the moderators. For this game, they’re me (Astral Rejection) and Mahaloth.

So.. that’s my case. You’re barking up the wrong tree, townies. I’m town. Plain, old, vanilla-boring town. Lynch elsewhere, please.

[special_ed]

@KellyCriterion

I didn’t know what a handshake was until less than 24 hours ago, so any specified details in relation to handshakes in the OP is, and was, meaninglessly unmemorable to me.

After my conversation with special ed, I discovered that sometimes the mods “mix up” the same role PM, to “avoid handshakes”. I had no memory of reading in the OP that steps were taken to prevent handshakes. This is obvious from a PM I sent to the mods prior, clearly naive about it:

So, where did you learn about handshakes then, if not from the OP?

[special_ed]

@special_ed

So, where did you learn about handshakes then, if not from the OP?

There was obviously much snippage in my previous post