Better late than never?
Hallefreakin’lujah, we got one at last.
Now that is a daring vote! 
Anyway, for God’s sake don’t waste a block on me, LightFoot. I’m already blocking myself – I’m feeling paralyzed by indecision and an inability to divine motives from anyone. I trusted septimus and don’t see what’s wrong with Suburban Plankton at all, certainly not why pizza has such a hate-on for him. Especially if he’s now suddenly trusting ShadowFacts, why isn’t Red Skeezix the first on his target list?? I don’t understand it.
I still think LightFoot is the Inspector Clouseau of detectives. Not scum but not useful, either. Since the Lords know who she is (and have done ever since she claimed early), why do we expect any result from a scan wahtsoever? Is there some game mechanic by which she can get through their blocking maneuvers? (If there is and it’s a secret, obviously don’t answer this question!)
You want **LightFoot **to tell us her one result just before Dawn, so that we will get the information even if she’s killed Tonight.
- No argument from me here; this makes sense.
You think she should consider bluffing, so that if the Scum are waiting for her info to make their kill, they might target the wrong person
- On it’s own, this makes sense as well.
But when you put those together, they don’t make sense. Suppose **LightFoot **decides to bluff the Scum, and that she winds up dead in the Morning. Then we wind up with a ‘confirmed Townie’ that isn’t.
If **Lightfoot **is going to divulge her information, she must be truthful. We can’t have our Town investigators lying to us, even if it’s for a ‘good reason’.
Well choie, you’ve just provided several reasons why a block would be useful.
- You don’t think it’s a very good idea. Therefore, I think it’s a very good idea.
- You trusted septimus
- You don’t understand why Pizza has such a hate-on for Suburban Plankton even after it’s been explained several times.
- You didn’t understand why septimus’ last second save was scummy in the first place.
- You wasted the entire round with your vote on Lightfoot, and your discussion has dropped off the planet since my last big accusation on you. If you hadn’t done that, I’d have left you be, but now it strikes me as legitimate nervousness, and this was AFTER your confident refutation which made me GO AWAY. *Now *you don’t want to talk?
- Lack of nuance- I’m not trusting ShadowFacts. I still think he’s 50/50 scum or townie. But I want him to use his block on a suspect at the very least. And by the way, he’s lost his right to keep the double-vote to himself. Next round, it goes to Lightfoot, and no argument. That you didn’t see the nuance on my stance on Shadow tells me you’re not interested in what was said. Since you’re not talking, you’ve probably got enough time to read everything at the very least.
@Suburban Plankton-
This kind of rigid ideological thinking means if you’re townie, the scums can read you like a book. I could write you essays on the virtues of lying as townie, but I doubt I’d get much positive reaction here from anyone except Normal who has seen it in action.
Lightfoot should decide whether a bluff is useful here or not, not follow some principled rule which only makes it easier for the scums to react to town’s play.
So what changed since your last post that makes you think she’s town now?
Err…I was under the impression that I’d been doing this all along. Not necessarily examining *your *top suspects, but rather *my *top suspects, as well as people who are under actual lynch pressure.
I was under the impression that there was some convoluted reasoning at the end of the Day that it was unlikely for both septimus and RedSkeezix to be Scum but I don’t understand the connection.
I’m off to dinner (it’s my birthday)…back later.
So you *decline *to look at *either *of those two folks in any greater detail.
Well, that’s…
:smack:
…really helpful of you.
New development:
Hold off on Weedy assassination for the moment. I’m 1/3 done my full re-read, and found some compelling evidence Weedy may not be scum with septimus.
However, I want to finish my assessment first, and double-check my findings.
Do you mean me, re: LightFoot? Nothing’s changed whatsoever. I really don’t know if she’s town or not – I didn’t then, either. Everyone else seems to be dead certain that she is, so I guess she is. The only reason I voted for her last round was because I haven’t seen any evidence that she really is the detective, but everyone says she must be, since no one else has claimed detective. Personally I’d think if LightFoot is lying and we have a detective, it would be smart of her or him to keep quiet about it rather than counterclaim. Because it seems to me once the scum know who our detective is, a-blocking or a-murdering that detective they will go.
But since this is my REDACTED game of Mafia*, I probably just don’t understand the strategy.
So no, I’m not certain she’s town (just as I wasn’t sure she was scum either before). I just defer to everyone else in the universe because I highly doubt that I’m imbued with some special knowledge that eludes everyone else. Unlike others in the game I could mention, ahem.
Dude, the sad thing is I tend to trust everyone in this game; I have exactly the wrong mindset for Mafia, in that I give people the benefit of the doubt rather than suspecting everyone. That’s just how I am. The only people I don’t really trust are Normal Phase and you, and that’s just because I dislike your styles of play that makes Everything About You. Cockiness sets my teeth on edge and automatically makes me mistrust someone. But I know that’s not a good reason to assume scumhood.
Uh, how many votes did Suburban get last round? Zero, right? The fact that no one agrees with you may imply that I’m not the only one who doesn’t get the explanation you think is so crystal clear. Or maybe your barrage of posts are just so overwhelming that we’re all losing the plot.
Yup, because I would have played it the same way (though perhaps not waiting for 6:59PM to do it, if only 'cause I don’t trust the board to let me post in time) if the same thing were happening to me as an innocent. Besides, my not understanding this is something that can easily be explained because this is my REDACTED* game.
Sigh. Yeah, again it’s All About Pizza. Yes, you’re exactly the reason I stopped posting. You you you you you. It’s why this game exists, for YOU to make all the rules and determine who votes for whom, and why people post, and when.
My vote wasn’t needed for any of the major candidates. I voted for LightFoot just to stir up conversation because I just didn’t understand why this so-called detective has received such absolute loyalty from so many when we have gotten absolutely nothing useful from her.
I have nothing to say. The honest truth? This was quite simply the wrong version of Mafia to step my experimental toe in, firstly because of the rules/color (which are too opaque for me – the unusual power roles are already confusing but add in the – sorry, Astral and Mahaloth – not particularly rational D&D roles (c.f. Silver Jan and her non-powerful Mage), and I’m just totally foundering here). And secondly it was the wrong game to be my REDACTED game* because some of the players, i.e. YOU and Normal, are overwhelming the fuck right outta me with your self-imposed We Rule The Game attitudes.
So what can I say? I’m not flouncing and I’m staying until I’m either nightkilled or lynched or the game ends, but I’m not having an easy time of this and I worry that my utter lack of experience (oops, consider that REDACTED belatedly) will harm my fellow townies, so I’d rather not say anything at all except for the few times I have a question. Such as my confusion on why everyone gives a rat’s patootie what our so-called Detective says because she hasn’t said anything useful for three Days we’ve been playing the game.
I know it’s hard for you to comprehend this, because of course as we know the game is All About Pizza, but you are actually not in charge of whom ShadowFacts gives his vote to. Further, you’re not as clear a writer as you think you are, and I’m not the only person who finds your WOW less than easy to follow.
Even more further, you’re damn right I lack understanding of the nuances. I’m barely hanging on to the BIG OBVIOUS rules of this game, much less the nuances.
F’rex, I can’t see for the life of me what purpose a lie from the detective gets us. It’s even less useful than her silence has been. But please spare us the screeds on why Lying is Useful that only your bestie Normal can possibly understand.
There! Aren’t you every so glad I spoke up?
- I know I’m not allowed to mention that this is my first game of Mafia. But is it okay if I mention that this is probably my last game?
Oh well, you don’t like me. I’m not gonna cry about it.
:rolleyes:
I hope this isn’t true. I’ve enjoyed everyone’s participation in this game, and I’m really looking forward to playing with you guys in the next. I performed spectacularly poorly last game, but I’m just gonna shake that off and keep trying*. I’m still fairly new at this myself (4 games played, one of which I died the first night), so I’m hardly the voice of experience here, but I think this game would be really boring if the same people played every single game.
- Not to imply I think you’re doing terrible in this game. I’m just saying no matter what you think, I’d be happy if you kept playing.
Anyway, my in-game reaction to choie is that she’s either legitimately annoyed at me or she’s extremely unhappy with the idea of herself being blocked.
As such, I can only advocate for her to be blocked as requested.
Sorry if that request makes it “all about me” instead of I dunno winning the game or helping the team.
I’ve done further analysis, and I could post it. However I’m starting to sense I’d do better if I just kept it to myself. I’ve instead saved it to a text file if anyone asks.
In short,
choie’s behavior towards Normal makes no sense, given the recent septimus flip. Her attitude toward me and Normal both is of annoyance. Well regardless of if our play styles have rubbed her the wrong way, it’s sort of doubtful the reason someone would look at Normal funny at this point is due to legitimate suspicion.
It actually reads more as straight annoyance, possibly based on the outcome of the game so far. Her reactions to the septimus situation when I first read it were viewed from a “if septimus is townie” situation and I felt it could have been perfect information. Which is slightly scummy.
Well, septimus didn’t flip town, and the same action which reads as slightly scummy if septimus is town reads as far, far more scummy now that he’s mafia. It’s much more likely that choie and septimus are both guilty.
It would explain a lot of things about choie right now. It explains why her being blocked is an idea she cannot accept, and it’s probably that comment which prompted her to post and say it’s a bad idea. It explains her defense of septimus’ behavior, and her defense of Suburban’s doubletalk and flip-flopping.
I would be *surprised *if Shadow blocked her. As such, I will be voting choie myself next round should I survive.
My revised list of suspects puts her and Suburban Plankton right at the top, tied for number one. Weedy and to a lesser extent, Inner Stickler, are occupying the number 2 and 3 slots.
**
- Suburban Plankton
- choie
- Weedy
- Inner Stickler**
I apologize for making you feel as though your opinions are always wrong. Mafia’s fucking hard for me too and I know what it’s like to feel attacked at every turn. If I ever seem like I know what I’m talking about, it’s because I’ve seen it happen too many times to write it off.
As far as Lightfoot goes, you’re right, if scum are false-claiming detective right from the start, it wouldn’t hurt the detective to lay low for a bit and gather some more results. Then they can claim Day 3 or 4 with some nice info, if we lynch one and they’re scum, hurrah, if they’re town, we lynch the other. The thing about this, is barring a detective claim/counterclaim at Lynch or Lose (when town MUST lynch scum or the game is over) a power role claim/counterclaim where one claimer is scum will always be in town’s favor. As long as town can keep ahead of the scum by numbers, 1 for 1 trades are great news for us. So if there are any experienced players on the scum team, they will probably have counseled against a false claim. That’s why people are treating Lightfoot the way they are. We can pretty much trust Lightfoot’s opinions to be her opinions. With ATPG or NPhase or me, you have to ask, “What’s their angle? How are they benefiting from this?” With Lightfoot, you know. She’s trying to get town to win. So we know she won’t lie about PMs she gets or stuff like that. (Around these parts, we adhere pretty closely to Lynch All Liars. Whether that helps us or hurts us, I’ll leave to ATPG and Roosh to decide.) That’s why we trust her so much, as would we trust a confirmed mason. We understand where they fit in the puzzle.
I just want to mention with Septimus, you are circling around the idea, although I can’t find the post just now. You said something about how you would have done the same as him but you wouldn’t have waited until the last second. That’s exactly it. A last chance vote switch was expected by, I think everyone. A last minute switch, however, does not say, “All I know is I’m town and it’s bad too lynch me.” it says, "I’ve engineered an escape route that will work as long as no one has the chance to negate my votes with their own. A townie would be so concerned with missing the deadline, they’d post as soon as they could. Scum, however, have to make a buzzerbeater or they risk it all being for naught. And when asked about it, he made no bones about manipulating the vote that calculatedly.
OMG this message board is freaking awesome. I just discovered how to make it 200 posts per page. 50 was actually plenty, but this is amazing. It will be far, far less of a headache to find anything on this thread now.
Wish I had checked that before I had done virtually anything in this game. Navigating through 30 pages is nuts.
Yeah, my thread’s only 8 pages long. (It would be great though, if the game mods could title their color posts with Day X and Night X to make it easier to find SOD and EOD. Please?)
Right now I am at post 900 of a project that everyone should find actually useful AND not an eyesore.
Step 1-
I generated a list of numbers 1-2000 and I’m placing all the votes in the game on the list. Each number is the post number. I’ll then highlight the votes and posts of the game moderators and known townies in blue, and the votes and posts of the known scumbags in red.
You guys do something similar when you list the final tally for each round and color it in; this should actually be much easier to read and make sense of, because you also get a sense of the timing of each event, and there will be lots of blank numbers in between where there was discussion but no vote switching.
Step 2 is I place every post by the known scums onto the list, so it can be easily referenced as to what may have prompted what behavior.
Step 3, I’ll place a quick blurb indicating when anyone ever talked about any scumbag, next to that post number.
The list can be populated with other events, the end of day and end of night events were already placed on the list in step 1.
This list should be finished step 1 and 2 by the time day rolls around. I’ll try to finish step 3 as well. It will be easy to read, mostly empty space, and all encased in a spoiler so it doesn’t impact or distract anyone’s ability to follow the game. I’m certain it will be of help.
The list should be very easy to maintain and add to even after I’m dead.
Looks like I made it onto ATPG’s suspect list. I missed that.
This next bit is for choie. I don’t know if she is playing me or not. This is in case she’s not.
Choie, I wondered what happened to you. I feel bad if I upset you with my vote. I hope that wasn’t why you disappeared (not to make this all about me or anything).
My first game of Mafia (which is not very long ago) I got called out for saying ‘I’m confused’ all the time. I felt like it was unfair, what was I supposed to say? I was trying to be honest about my thinking. But people yelled at me for it. So I never say ‘I’m confused’ now, no matter how confused I am.
The issue is not you being a newbie, it’s when you use it to justify your actions. You are a newbie, we can’t really argue with that, can we? But it doesn’t tell us anything about whether you are scum or not. If you say:
This is probably just a dumb, newbie vote, but I am going to
vote Lightfoot
then you have voted for Lightfoot without giving us anything to work with.
If you say:
Lightfoot hasn't given us any results. I think she is bluffing. I am going to
vote Lightfoot.
Then there is reasoning and we can assess it, and discuss it.
No one expects you to be right all the time, or possibly any of the time. Maybe you don’t have any special insight yet, but you are here to play the game, and the only way you will get better is to play. And maybe you will spot something that everyone else missed.
Re Lightfoot: No one has counter-claimed yet, but if they do we can lynch the both of them. One-for-one trade is good for town, because we have several times more people than they do. The reasoning is that scum Lightfoot would never make the claim in the first place, because at some point it would blow up in her face. Now maybe she has some clever plan to avoid that, but since we can’t think of what that might be, for now, we trust Lightfoot. If a cop does counter-claim her, that will all vanish in a flash.
I can’t help you with the personality posters, because I struggle with some of them myself. But theirs is not the only way to play the game, and you can pay as much or as little attention to them as you desire. Astral and Mahaloth are the bosses of the game. Everyone else is just playing the way that suits them best.