Perfect description of the current administration.
Perhaps. We’ll see what generates a more visceral reaction shortly. The rioters and anarchists did their cause a serious disservice.
I’m scared to death of the damage those shouting Defund the loudest can do. There’s definitely a small but very loud hard left that seems convinced that if things finally get bad enough we will all see the light and turn to Democratic Socialism or some left wing alternative. They’d be more than happy to see Biden lose and have the USA suffer Trump 4 more years
Huh, too late, most are supportive of the protests, and do know that looters are not the same. They are also figuring out that Trump decided to shoot rubber bullets and pepper gas to the peaceful protesters.
There is also a movement to get rid of prisons/jails but it doesn’t have a lot of followers yet. I believe they want house arrest instead. NYC is slated to close Rikers but they will replace it with other places.
Generally assume that octopus is talking about an entirely different subset of people than you are thinking about. It provides much better context to his commentary and saves having to torture out a plausibly reasonable explanation where there is none.
Then it isn’t a movement.
The thing is, Defund the Police doesn’t many any of these things. Because the things proposed are not merely demilitarization, or training, or reform. What’s called for is a complete societal shift in how we approach public safety. People are split on whether this means a complete abolition of police in favor of better trained social workers & mental health professionals, and decriminalizing things like homelessness and redirecting the police funds to things like public housing, and for criminal cases using community mediators trained in [transformative justice and community accountability** mediation, or whether it means only mostly abolishing the police to the level that the vast, vast majority of the things they’re responsible for now are no longer done by the police.
You can say if it takes several paragraphs to explain what you mean you’re losing, and to some degree I understand that, but the fact of the matter is, people are calling for some pretty fundamental societal changes, and words like “reform” don’t adequately cover it. It is a large, large, large network of interconnected ideas that don’t really work without each other. It’s the kind of thing which if made law would likely be hundreds upon hundreds of pages to cover all the systems that would need to be created, funded, trained, or shuffled around.
The best alternative slogan I can think of is “replace the police”, which is possibly better. I’ve noticed that on Facebook most of the profile picture overlays I’ve seen on the issue have specifically said “Defund and Replace” instead of just “Defund”, presumably for that reason. Defund on its own is snappier, but I think defaulting to “replace” is better.
I mean, even ignoring the people who can separate rioters and peaceful protestors [url=54 Percent of Americans Think Burning Down Minneapolis Police Precinct Was Justified After George Floyd's Death]54% of americans think burning down the police station was justified and appropriate](What are Community Accountability & Transformative Justice?) so not even all the riotous behavior is widely condemned. (Admittedly, most said it was “partially justified” which isn’t the same as full support, but demonstrates it likely hasn’t hurt their viewpoint of the movements at play).
I agree with Jragon. My fear on hearing Biden say he didn’t support defunding the police was that it was a tone deaf comment. The police are not the right solution for every 911 call.
I seriously doubt that defunding the police will become a grassroots movement anymore than tree spiking became one in the 1990s. It’s anger. It’ll subside. People just want to make sure that this movement has staying power, and that it doesn’t become the police reform movement’s equivalent of bump stock bans.
There are times to fear that we may be going too far and there may be occasions to fear the Republicans’ political wizardry. But this is not one of those times. There’s an opportunity to make good on some real progress, mostly by allowing cities the opportunity to redefine the police department’s role and relationships with socioeconomically disadvantaged communities.
If we’re still talking about abolishing police departments and replacing SWAT teams with street patrols led by teachers, social workers, and psychologists a month or two from now, then I’ll be concerned. But not now.
Not really. Biden was forced into explicitly defending the police at a time when it’s not politically wise to do so. It’s hard to imagine a better way for the Left to shag themselves. YES the police need to be drastically reformed. NO that doesn’t mean you publicly and loudly proclaim that you intend to completely eliminate police departments.
What’s that? You never said you wanted to “completely eliminate police departments”? Umm… ok, but surely you understand that’s the message that most folks will take from this.
What Fresh Hell have Democrats dreamt up in order to lose* this* election? What the Foxtrot?
Pandering with oversimplified slogans to the lowest common denominator is how we ended up with Trump (MAGA) and why some important ideas, such as policing reform, can’t be made into pithy slogans. Sometimes you have to say what you mean not what’s going to fire up the extremists and reactionaries. Because it will not be the extremists and reactionaries who will sit at the table to work out the details and nuances of the kind of change that is required.
Camden NJ disbanded their police and restarted the force. Crime went down 50%
This New Jersey city disbanded its police department 7 years ago. Here's what happened next | CNN
One has to remember 2 things though:
Currently we do have the extremists and reactionaries results of mismanaging things thanks to those extremists and reactionaries in power from the right and misguided moderates. And second: the “yahoos” with this idea that the right and some moderates point at are coming from the areas where even the local government does think that the current system should be scraped and come with something else. *
Point being that while you are a bit correct about slogans, the current reality is that it is the conservative and really extremist position of ignoring police abuses the issue that we should not forget got us where we are now.
- I have seen even in this message board moderates pointing at a yahoo protester opinion from Minneapolis as if it was **THE **talking point that opponents to Trump are using, forgetting that that is not the case for everybody and the situation points to what it has been done several times before in the US history. Sometimes, and depending on the location, the “great idea” needs to be considered.
So it would be more like “Reboot the Police”, then?
Trump sells ‘gear’ so his supporters can identify themselves and know they are on the same team (and fill Trumps pockets). There seem to be some odd units trying to quell the protestors. Now he’s selling ‘camo’ hats. :rolleyes: . I’m waiting for the MAGA shirts and jackets. Perhaps a badge you can buy to show how much you support Trump.
The slogan ‘Defund the Police’ couldn’t be worse.
When republicans say “defund planned parenthood”, do you assume they don’t mean exactly that? What about cities that say “abolish the police?” Is that supposed to be a metaphor too?
Why are Democrats forced to take seriously, and defend, every single social media fad, yet the leader of the Republican party is pushing conspiracy theories that elderly men are faking bleeding out of their ears and Republicans can just say, “I didn’t see that tweet,” and that’s perfectly acceptable?
You’re just being coy now.
Basically they are trying to get out of police Union relationships which have left the taxpeyers hogtied in terms of reform; and also move societal responses to many types of events away from “policing.” If you disband then you can reform. So the best word for this will come about eventually. It doesn’t seem like public officials are very confused about what it means though. It seems like something that’s time has come.