Yes, after evaluating nine or ten state-wide elections in the deep South, Scylla has determined that bigotry sells. What this has to do with the Republican party’s so-called “Southern Strategy”–which is inherently a strategy of national electoral politics–I have no bloody idea.
Bob, your evidence sucks. Sucks, sucks, sucks. Nobody outside of blogworld could even repeat it with a straight face. I’ve debunked it and shown it for the rhetorical bullshit that it is. Further than that, you may pretend that it demonstrates whatever your registered-Democrat heart feels that it demonstrates.
As for where your criteria came from, that’s simple. At the very top of you blog-stolen list, you quoted, and were responding to throughout that post, this:
Like I said, Bobby, them’s the criteria you were seeking to fulfill. Last I checked, 1976 > 20 years ago. Go check NewsMax, maybe they will have manufactured some more recent foul Democratic misdeeds for you to repost.
Yep, just keep repeating that these facts suck over and over, and that you have debunked them, and perhaps the sheer repetition will make it true. Your absolute refusal to acknowledge simple fact or to answer direct questions regarding your insightful “debunking” demonstrate absolutely clearly what it is you are attempting to do: advance an agenda, score points, and ignore any fact that doesn’t seem convenient to your argument. You had me fooled at first, but unfortunately there is now no other reasonable conclusion.
Facts are too difficult to deal with? Just keep attacking the source despite the fact that you are on record in this thread saying you questioned none of the facts. When I ask you to ignore the meaningless criteria (which were not mine; thanks for providing the evidence) and actually respond to a point–no, no, no! Didn’t you hear minty? That was more than 20 years ago. And your “debunking”–wow! Let me file away, “that doesn’t count” and “this may be fact, but it isn’t evidence” in my file for future use.
You have not engaged in honest, civil debate, and you continue to act as if you’re being asked to endure some horrible trial when called on your bullshit. Why don’t you toss in one of your lame “for shame” comments for good measure? I’m so humiliated by the last one.
OK, this is your cue to state how the facts undisputed by you “suck, suck, suck” and how you’ve already “debunked” them, you beacon of unbigoted insight. Please, don’t bother. Really.:rolleyes:
I’m getting the impression that the BJU thing is being defended pretty strictly under religious grounds, and that those doing the defending are attempting to distance themselves from the racial aspects.
BJU’s purppose is not discrimination and homophobia. It simply has some.
The CCC on the other hand seems to have racism as its cornerstone.
I would guess that an association with the former is not particularly indicative, while an association with the latter may be.
It has been hypothesized by me that if there were such a present National Southern strategy, evidence for it in terms of a pattern would be seen by an analysis of a sample of Southern States where racism appears to be a larger issue.
I actually think your examples are revealing, for how weak they are. This is an example of the Democratic “race card” strategy in recent years, of trying to offset legitimate conservative issues by pretending that they are secretly a cover for racism (e.g. the Willie Horton issue).
I can’t say for sure, but I incline to the “heritage” position on this (realizing, of course, that it does not necessarily have the same connotation for blacks). I observe that in a later post you’ve dismissed that possibility out of hand, but you’ve not made your case.
This is a serious distortion, minty. Fact is that the Republican establishment, led (IIRC) by the Prez Bush himself, repudiated Duke (who was at the time toning down his white rights platform).
Very iffy. There’s been a lot of back and forth (including some previous threads) about the extent of the “disenfranchisement” of black voters in Florida. At worst, what you have is some relatively minor official trying to inhibit turnout among likely opposition voters.
See Georgia.
This is silly, IMHO. Personally, I think that Lott meant nothing at all with his comments, as I’ve mentioned before. But if someone wants to make a case that he inadvertently revealed his true segregationist feelings I can live with that. But the suggestion that he deliberately chose to play to the segregationist vote is ridiculous. This was an obscure speech that no one was going to pay any attention to at all, unless it blew up at him as it did. What do you think - that secret segregationist representatives were in the audience who were going to pick up on the innuendo and pass the word at the next Klan rally?
Just FYI, Scylla, while Bob Jones University’s “purpose” may not be explicitly racially discriminatory, the school has been infamous for its policies in that regard since at least the early 80’s. That was when Reagan attempted to reinstate BJU’s tax-exempt status, which the IRS had determined BJU did not qualify for because it practiced racial discrimination. The case went to the U.S. Supreme Court twice, with the Court ruling against BJU both times. Given that background, it is inconceivable to me that any politician could go to BJU and be unaware of its discriminatory policies. To go there and not even address the issue is unconscionable.
I must be the only one that thinks any progress has been made in this thread at all.
As I read it, Scylla now understands that the confederate flag is nothing more than a symbol for racists. That might not have been nearly as universal in the past, but it certainly is today.
Next up, “states’ rights”, the southern code-word for segregation.
Even though it predates this greatly, you can start your tour with Ronny’s campaign kickoff in Philadelphia, Mississippi, and go from there. That lets us keep it fairly recent.
If you wish to go back further and denounce the horrible racism perpetrated by the southern Democrats, I’ll happily side with you. Perhaps you’ll come back in thirty years and denounce the Republicans’ “Southern Strategy” and its effect on minorities here in the south.
For the record, I do think the “Southern Strategy” as a national policy of the Republican party is over. My concern is that while the strategy as a national agenda is over, many of its proponents are still in office, and folks like Sonny “Remember the flag” Perdue are showing that it still works to get elected in some places. I just hope this doesn’t convince the higher ups that it’s worth looking into again.
BJU appears to be a dual issue and not a singular one. It’s primary purpose is religious.
While I have not studied the situation enough to be an expert it seems to me that some, including at least one outspoken Democratic Senator from Florida believe that there is a crusade going on against BJU, and that it is being targetted for religious persecution.
As for what Bush said, do you have a copy of his speech or a relatively balanced commentary of what he said?
For all we know, his speech might have been entirely appropriate.
OK, change that to “you’ve not made a case based on anything other than your own personal opinion”. (If you’ve introduced any actual evidence, I’ve missed it in going over your posts).
Maybe. I do think States rights are terribly important, though. Founding fathers wisely limiting the power of the Federal Government.
States rights are why tax-free bonds are tax-free. I support states rights in terms of taxation and as a principle of smaller less intrusive Federal Government. Philosophically I beleive in the localization of self-determination as much as possible.
I am against slavery, and don’t want the South to “do it again,” or “rise” or whatever.
These are all good Republican stances, that I consider worthy and associate with States Rights.
I will surely accept that other people may be using the words differently, and in reprehensible fashion, but because of the true importance of States’ rights in a variety of issues I don’t think you can dismiss it and relegate it to code-word status.
Also, in my quick research, the issue of States’ rights did show up on the Southern Heritage type sites frequently, but the big determiner seemed to be the flag.
I guess the problem is that if “States Rights” is a code word, then how does one address the legitimate and important States rights issues without invoking racism?
No. I’ll just denounce the bigoted Southern Democrats currently holding office today. They seem to be in rough proportion to the bigoted Southern Republicans, as I’ve demonstrated.
Your source obviously does not include info from the past election cycle (which I thought you wished to consider).
Barnes (Democrat) used much political capital to convince the state legislature to remove the Confederate emblem from the state flag. Barnes was then defeated by Sonny Perdue (Republican), who ran by wrapping himself in the Confederate flag.(“Remember who changed your flag!” screamed his campaign fliers.) “Flaggers” from Perdue’s camp followed Barnes to (and disrupted) each of his speaking engagements during the campaign.
Max Cleland (Democrat, squeaky-clean on racial issues) was defeated by Republican Saxby Chambliss, who made the “Stop the Muslims at the border of Lowndes County” remark and ran with the endorsement of the CCC. Hmm.
Miller (a Democrat) was not up for election this time, but earned his non-racist stripes when he was Governor of Georgia by trying (unsuccessfully) to wrangle the state legislature into removing the Confederate emblem from the state flag.
News to me. Cite? (And what the hell is a “voting drive against gun control?”) I do know that Miller opposes gun control, as do most Southern Democrats (surprise, surprise). The race of the gun control proponent is immaterial. This is therefore a bullshit attempt to smear Miller.
What the HELL are you talking about? Barnes has never defeated Miller in anything. Miller served two terms as Georgia governor, then left office. Barnes won the following Democratic primary (and subsequent general election) to replace Miller.
I’m going to be charitable and assume this is another reading comprehension error on your part ;), and not a bald-faced lie.
Barnes, as we know, changed the flag and lost his job as a result. 'Nuff said.
Score card: Two (out of two) Republican panderers. Zero (out of three) Democratic panderers.
I must say, Scylla, if your review of the other state officials’ records is as accurate as your review of Georgia politics, you may need to hire a fact-checker.
Of course, you left out state representatives. I showed you two Republican racial panderers of recent vintage. (Gingrey and Barr), and I’m sure I could find others.
Which brings up another point: Studying only statewide offices (Senators and Governors) skews the results. Reresentatives in small, racist-friendly districts are much more free to engage in pandering than state-wide officials, who must appeal to a broader base to win elections.
You’re welcome to wrap yourself in the Confederate flag if you wish, Izzy. Personally, I tend to feel icky around symbols promoted by white supremacist groups. Feel free to go over to Stormfront and count the number of swastikas and Confederate flags. Boy howdy, those guys have got heritage all over the place over there.
Scylla, I can’t find a transcript of Bush’s BNJU speech online, though every news story I’ve found reports that he said nothing about the school’s racist and anti-Catholic policies. Here is a representative story, noting also that Bush ended up writing a letter of apology to Cardinal John O’Connor for failing to speak out at the school.
Here, however, is a transcript of a speech delivered at BJU by John Ashcroft in 1999. Not a word about racial discrimination, but he did remind everyone that Jesus is king of America. That Jesus, he don’t put up with no race-mixin’.
To remind you, this is not a debate about the Confederate flag, but about whether Republicans are appealing to racism by supporting or waffling on the flag issue. Your job is to make a case that they are. Whether you personally feel icky about it is of no concern to anyone besides yourself.
Thanks for the corrections. The worst I had found on Perdue suggested was him saying he’d refer the issue of the flag to the state legislature.
Clearly Barnes did not face Miller as they were both Democrats. My bad. Nevertheless I found a cite quoting Barnes during his gubernatiorial campaign as saying “He had more important things to do” than worry about the Confederate flag.
Reading comprehension was an issue, because I was doing a quick scan, not a thorough reading, so I’m sure I have made other errors in other states.
I missed that. As I said, I didn’t include the opponents unless something jumped out, as it did with Perdue.
Don’t lie and tell me what I was trying to do. What was my opinion of Miller? I included the gun control because it tends to exonerate Miller not condemn him. How many Southern Heritage types want gun control? You think gun control will endear him to the white supremacist crowd? I included it specifically because it appears to have been a huge issue that pissed off the racist crowd.
Yes. and you know why.
Excellent. Go conduct a systematic study and tell us what you find.