Democrats apparently trying to count invalid mail in ballots despite and in conflict with several clear and unambiguous rulings from the state supreme court. In response to these rulings, Bucks County Commissioner Diane Ellis-Marseglia stated “I think we all know that precedent by a court doesn’t matter anymore in this country.” That’s certainly what you want to hear from a public official!
I hate when Republicans try to rig election results. I also don’t much care for it when Democrats do it either.
Is she trying to force a court case that would then go to the state supreme court to make it decide again whether this law/interpretation should stand?
Your thread title seems to be misleading. There is no attempt to “steal” anything. There is an attempt to force a change to the law. It’s a form of civil disobedience.
“Stealing” the election would involve quietly trying to make the votes count without anyone noticing. The people involved in this are doing it very publicly.
Well, that’s not what is happening here. There is no “rigging”. You might dislike the protests, and I don’t personally care for it either, but your accusations are inaccurate.
Also, the Republicans have no moral victory here, they are still hypocrites.
um what! There is no definitional requirement that “stealing” requires an effort to conceal your actions. If someone in broad daylight on a busy street walks up to a jewelry store, smashes the front window, and walks off with a diamond necklace, that is not stealing?
They are attempting to count illegal ballots in contravention to the law and explicit court orders in an effort to change election results. That’s attempting to steal an election in my book.
It sounds like the PA supreme court’s decision-making process for ballot counting cases amounts to “heads the Rs win; tails the Ds lose.”
Which decision seems like a reasonable hill for honest election officials to choose to take a stand on, and perhaps to die on. Time for Federal intervention. At which point we’ll learn how much SCOTUS now subscribes to the same logic as do PA’s supremes.
That’s a bad analogy. The officials here know they cannot change the results. They know that trying to count these ballots isn’t legal and will not succeed. If I were to try to “steal” a car by trying to pick it up and carry it away with my bare hands, does that make me a thief?
But they aren’t. Here is the problem you are running into. Let’s break down this statement:
“They are attempting to count illegal ballots in contravention to the law and explicit court orders”
This is true, and I understand condemning them for that.
“in an effort to change election results.”
This is untrue. They know that the election results aren’t going to change. They are trying to change the election law. I’m not saying that it makes their actions noble here, but you are mischaracterizing what is happening.
I think this civil disobedience may be fair if they are counting undated mail ballots for both parties alike, to force changes to the law (at personal legal risk to themselves.) If they are only counting Democratic undated mail ballots, though (ie., if they are opening the envelopes and then discarding ones they find to be Trump), then that’s an issue.
I agree that it would be a lot worse. At that point I wouldn’t even consider it civil disobedience. Then it would be a lot closer to an attempt to steal the election as @We_re_wolves_not_werewolves is claiming.
that would be attempted theft, just as these actions are “attempting” to steal an election. The likelihood of success or failure does not change that.
nah, you change the election law by having the legislature make a new law. The court has already said this is a valid and enforceable law. The only way to change it is legislatively. Their actions have no effect on changing the law.
I agree with you that their efforts are likely to be ineffective in changing the law. My guess is that they just want to draw attention to it, which is pretty much what protests are supposed to do.
Remember, I am in agreement with you that I don’t like what they are doing. And if there are sanctions against the people involved with this, I am not going to be upset at all.
Maybe. But I mean, it’s one thing for the general populace to engage in civil disobedience to change a clearly unjust law. But for government officials whose job is to count election results to refuse to obey both the law and a supreme court mandate is pretty distasteful.
Let’s just agree that if the situation was reversed and it was Republicans pulling this type of shenanigans, there would be a thousand post thread on here in the pit with all the rancor that this board can generate on full display.
You can discuss the situation and level complaints all day long about what Democrats are doing in Pennsylvania. But if you started this thread simply to moan about the left-leaning bent of the Board, which is well known and not likely to change, then that’s out of bounds. Confine your comments to the issue and not use the issue as a not-subtle way to complain about the Board’s fundamental culture.
So after 4 years of denying they steal elections, the Dems are admitting they are trying to steal an election? The optics will not be good on this one especially after the MAGA spin.
More like exposing how Republicans steal elections. “If we count all the ballots, this candidate would win, but you’ve arbitrarily decided these ballots shouldn’t count, so your candidate wins.” Really puts a highlight on how Republicans are actually opposed to fair elections, despite all their blather. And they will continue to blather anyway, whatever happens here.
Last Friday a conservative Fox News commentator, Mary Katharine Ham, was a guest on the Bill Maher show, and said basically what you just said. When Maher pointed out that Trump has made contesting elections pretty much the modus operandi of Republicans after 2020 – that when Democrats lose, they concede, as indeed they did in this election despite shock and bitter disappointment, but when Republicans lose – Trump in particular – they don’t concede (this was in fact one of the major life lessons that Trump’s incorrigibly evil mentor, Roy Cohn, taught him – never, ever admit a loss, no matter how fucked you are). Instead they work behind the scenes to corrupt the vote count, as Trump did in Georgia, create slates of fake electors, and foment an insurrection.
In response to which Ham brought up this Bob Casey situation in PA. Maher seemed bemused and not sure whether to seriously reply, but his basic response was: the Bob Casey situation is completely different, no one tried to falsify the vote count or start a violent insurrection, and, basically, no one gives a shit about Bob Casey – the presidential election lost, Harris conceded, and Biden gracefully invited Trump to the White House, and that’s the point. Stop trying to manufacture false equivalencies.
However, our mail ballots in Pennsylvania test my clerical ability to an unnecessary degree. If I do not care much about how private my vote is, and then fail to put my ballot in doubled enveloping, why should that stop my ballot from being counted? Do other states require that? And as for hand dating the envelope, this has no benefit. Do other states require that one?
However, people who vote as I do may have, on average, good clerical ability, so I shouldn’t complain.
what? this is a US senate seat! There are exactly 100 of them in the entire country and they enact the laws of the United States. Yes, it’s not president, but it’s a pretty big fucking position nonetheless.