Suppose the Dems had a lunatic demagogue who you knew was corrupt to the core and would use the office for personal gain. Suppose you knew he would advocate using agencies to reward his loyalists and punish his enemies.
You really don’t think of him as someone who’s fit for office, yet you know that, inexplicably, he garners about 40-45% of the vote no matter what. Moreover, you know that he religiously supports the progressive cause: rubber stamps liberal judges, toughens regulations on business for the public good, promises to pump up welfare spending, promises to protect immigrants rights, and do all the things that progressives want.
Would you vote for that guy knowing all his baggage?
I’m an independent who despises the Republicans, not a Democrat; however given their typical behavior it’s nearly certain the Democrats would turn on and condemn anyone *anywhere near *as bad as Trump. They do that kind of thing regularly, after all; look at what happened to Al Franken.
No need to ask the question as if it were some parenthetical theoretical hypothetical – we already have experimental data from the LaRouchies who managed to run stealth campaigns to get nominated as Democrats, only to be disowned by the party once they found out what was going on.
Don’t know if I can post in here since I am not a (D) - (if the OP would prefer that I stay out, just let me know):
The difference between D’s and R’s, IMHO, is that the D’s might elect a Trump but quickly then impeach him or 24th-Amendment him in favor of Democratic Pence. The R’s, for some reason, just have never brought themselves to do that.
On a broader note, it’s important to bear in mind that almost no one in their right mind - whether Republican or Democratic - would vote for a saintly candidate who opposes everything they stand for, rather than an asshole who champions all causes dear to them. Since the OP directs his questions at D’s, I’d venture a guess that faced with a choice between - say, Rosie O’Donnell for president, but even more asshole-ish than she currently is - or perhaps Whoopi Goldberg for president - versus someone like Mike Pence, who appears to be a totally upstanding citizen of the law, boring but moral - but who firmly champions the anti-LGBT, anti-choice, side of things - why would any D want President Pence???
If you vote for Pence, you can expect potentially many back-alley abortions, gays to lose the right to SSM, the Supreme Court to tilt right for a generation, climate change to run amok, no healthcare reform, all kinds of such woes. Why wouldn’t you prefer Rosie or Whoopi, especially since you can depose them once they are in power and get a sane Democratic VP as prez?
If it was a corrupt sleezebag like Rod Blagoevich vs Romney or Jon Kasich? I’d vote Republican. But if they were running against Ted Cruz or Trump? I’d probably vote 3rd party.
Thing is, if you are a well-intentioned person then a “asshole who champions all causes dear to them” is basically a contradiction in terms. At best it means someone who is good at doing horrible things without getting caught.
Trump is popular with the Republicans because they are lying about their claimed principles, and mainly just want to hurt people. The fact that Trump is vile in every way is a plus not a minus because that’s what they want in a leader; somebody who is bigoted, cruel, ignorant and destructive.
Velocity’s claim that Mike Pence is a totally upstanding citizen of the law is pretty strange given that he has said not one word against all of the blatantly illegal activity going on in the administration that he is Vice President of, openly supports dismantling regulatory agencies that actually enforce the law against rich white people, and openly supports passing anti-abortion laws even though such laws are actually unconstitutional. None of those are the actions of someone who is an upstanding citizen that follows the law. The Republican definition of “Law and Order” apparently doesn’t mean following the actual laws that are passed.
No I wouldn’t. Trump isn’t vile merely because he is a Republican. Had the Democratic party been amenable to his candidacy he could have easily started spouting about the dangers of the prudes in the religious right and making fun of the hayseeds in flyover country. He would still be just as corrupt, just as power hungry, just as incompetent and just as much of a danger to the US.
As to what I would do instead it would probably depend on who his opponent was. If it was a competent Republican who I believed would actually put the country first, such as say McCaine, Dole, Governor Hogan, or maybe even as far as Paul Ryan, I might vote for them. Otherwise I’d look to a third party candidate or write in.
The title and the post ask different questions. I wouldn’t defend his sleazy personal life and behavior, but I’d absolutely vote for him in the unlikely even that he was the Democratic nominee in the general election. All else being equal, I’d prefer a good person to a bad person, for both moral and political reasons, but all else isn’t equal and I’m not going to throw out all those other outcomes to make some dramatic point.
FWIW, I kind of extend this to Trump too. Like, obviously he’s a bad president and a horrible human being, but if you asked me to choose between him and George W. Bush, it would take me a while to think about it.
I’m an independent, usually vote Dem. A friend of mine is conservative and we once had a memorable conversation back in the Obama days.
The president had done something he didn’t like and challenged me to defend it. I said I couldn’t because I thought it was a bad policy too. He seemed surprised and I asked, “Why do you expect me to defend a policy I don’t agree with?”
He was visibly taken aback that I didn’t choose to defend someone I voted for in that instance. I don’t see why on Earth I would, and therein may lie a major difference between people.
Today I would also point to people like Al Franken and John Edwards - my “side”, such as it is, can and will cast off inappropriate people. Sometimes too soon, actually, but that’s another discussion.
