The problem is that you can’t trust the asshole. Sure, they may say they support all the right causes, but how do I know they’re not lying? Like, a lot of people say that they support Trump because he’ll put conservative (by which they mean anti-abortion) judges on the Supreme Court, but he hasn’t actually done that. His actual criterion for picking judges has been how supportive they are of totalitarianism.
Incidentally, this is yet another reason to prefer candidates who have held other elective offices before. Not only is the experience valuable, but it gives you a chance to see what they really support.
Fortunately, we don’t have to choose between an asshole who supports the right causes and a well-behaved man who doesn’t. There are hundreds of millions of people in this country, and out of them, we can find plenty of good people who support the right causes. Republicans act like they were helpless in the face of Trump, because he was the Republican candidate, and it was him or a Democrat, so they were forced to hold their noses and vote for him… but how did he become the candidate? The problem came not in the general, but in the primaries: If Republicans had followed their consciences, then Trump would never have gotten the nomination.
Llama Logophile nailed it. There are two kinds of people: those who defend their “Dear Leader” no matter what, and those that recognize all leaders are complex human beings that we needn’t always agree with. (I am an enthusiastic Democrat and Obama voter, but just yesterday I was telling someone how I disagreed with certain of the Obama administration’s immigration policies).
As the voting, I agree with others that it would depend on the opponent — and perhaps other factors such as “has Ruth Bader Ginsberg died yet and been replaced by a similarly left-leaning judge?”.
Yes. Comparing the treatment of Franken with that of the many real criminals in the GOP should make OP ashamed for devising such a stupid hypothetical.
I guess I only skim Velocity’s posts, if at all, but if that’s what he said it just confirms what’s increasingly obvious: Velocity is not one of the brighter bulbs on the Christmas tree. (In his defense I suppose he voted for Gary Nutjob instead of Trump.)
I’m not a Democrat, but I would never defend a prime minister who acted like Trump regardless of party. Trump’s approval rating should be 0%. The fact that it isn’t tell me that there’s something fundamentally wrong with American voters.
There couldn’t be a “democratic Trump” because Trump represents everything that liberals abhor. That’s like asking, “Would you support a demonic Mother Theresa?” It’s a nonsense question. I’ll play along, though, and answer, NO!
Yes, exactly, at least for a certain core. It specifically means that there is something fundamentally wrong with the Republican Party, in that it has, over the decades, become a mechanism which would put such a corrupt, venal jackass in power.
Anyone who engages in false equivalencies to make apologies or excuses for Trump–as some do on this board–is intellectually and morally bankrupt.
Of course I wouldn’t. I’d like to think that a Democratic president would resign the minute the phone transcript was released. I don’t think that Republicans believe the lies that the White House has ordered them to parrot about Ukrainian interference in elections, they know that if they don’t they will never survive a primary. No dissent from Donald can be tolerated on any matter, great or small. I can’t see Democrats behaving this way because there isn’t a batshit core of the Democratic base that Democrats are afraid of.
I’m reaching back into what seems like ancient history here, but there was once a congressman from Florida (where else, of course) named Alan Grayson. He was (and remains) a thoroughly odious person. He swiftboated his Republican opponent one year, running ads calling him “Taliban Dan.” He said the Republican health care plan amounted to telling people to “die quickly.” He raised money by comparing the Tea Party to the KKK. Beyond his, uh, “policy positions,” he did great stuff like allegedly beating his ex-wife, and was involved in some kind of shady Ponzi scheme, losing millions. He won a couple elections in Florida, and now seems to have been relegated to persona non grata in the Democratic Party.
He’s a pretty good role model for the Trump of the Democratic Party.
Now, Dems at large have soured on him, but his status on the SDMB at the time included some vocal supporters:
So while Dems at large have seen through him now, let’s not kid ourselves that quite a few Dems were egging him on at the time. I always thought he was detestable, FTR.
Yeah, it’s kind of hard to answer a hypothetical like this. I’d also like to think I’d oppose a criminal demagogue who supported liberal policies. But I’ve disappointed myself before, so I guess I can’t be sure. Like others, I would also point to examples like Al Franken to show that Democrats (at least currently) are trying to root out any unethical or unseemly behavior, so a Democratic Trump is not that likely in any case.
Trump’s corruption is one of his greater sins, but not his greatest. His greatest sin is how he’s treating immigrants, specifically the concentration camps he’s putting children in.
If I had to choose between two candidates, one of which was thoroughly corrupt and the other of which would put children in concentration camps, I’d choose the former. Party affiliation wouldn’t matter.
Is that the choice you propose?
I don’t think I can answer the question in isolation. I’ve mentioned elsewhere that I see elections as a trolley problem, and third-party voting is not a reasonable option for me (unless I’m in a state where my vote doesn’t matter). I need to know what the alternative is to voting for this thoroughly corrupt Democrat.
Not after observing the last few years. I don’t want a corrupt demagogue as president anyway, but after seeing how downballot elections have gone during the Trump era and how public opinion on many issues has shifted rather sharply to the left, I’m pretty sure I especially don’t want a corrupt demagogue who’s on my side.
Democratic Trump is currently writing irrelevant blog posts raving about vaccinations and GMO foods. He or she is nowhere near any position of power in the Democratic party. So, this question is impossible to answer in reality, because “Democratic Trump” doesn’t exist.
But, if this person somehow dropped from the sky into the oval office, then no, I would not support them.
I may well vote GOP (I’ve done it for local elections; when Rod Blagojevich ran for re-election as governor, I voted for Judy Baar Topinka.) Though, on a federal scale, that is a bit different of a situation. So, thinking about it some more, I’d most likely vote third party.
How can he do all that stuff----caring for the public good------and still be corrupt? Isn’t that the essence of not corruption? Trump robs every Institution for his own personal gain, lies about it, and hurts people. He doesn’t care. He wants power and money.
The whole question doesn’t make sense because the Republican party supports Republican Trump while the Democratic party doesn’t even know who the Democratic Trump is. So, by definition, Democrats would not defend Democratic Trump.
Republican Trump represents the Republican party, hence their defense of him.
Absolutely not. I don’t think billionaires belong in government, regardless of good intentions. They tend to be entitled, spoiled and out of touch. I wouldn’t hire a plumber to do electrical work, either. To address Trump specifically, his background of abusive treatment of employees and women, his financial shenanigans, his pathological need to lie about everything, and his general smarminess would make him a non-starter for me.
I can’t imagine Democrats nominating anyone remotely as bad as Trump, so for me the hypothetical fails right there.
Undoubtedly many if not most Democrats/progressives (on this board and in general) would support and excuse wretchedly bad behavior by a powerful Democratic politician in order to maintain power over Republicans/conservatives.
I’m not a Democrat but I can’t say I would vote for a Demo-Trump.
The last election was a perfect example.
I viewed my Presidential choices as that I had to make a choice between eating a dogshit sandwich or a catshit sandwich.
In that situation I would probably choose the Demo_Trump (Actually I voted Libertarian last election)
The most important thing to me is that just because I voted for any candidate doesn’t mean I would support them after election.
So, I can understand why people voted for Trump. what I don’t understand is why they continue to defend him.
Just because I chose the dogshit sandwich doesn’t mean I’m going to brag about how great it tasted.
