Some more thoughts on this. The King James Bible unfortunately translated the word for demons as devils. We take the devil as Satan, and sometimes take Satan is a fallen angel (Lucifer). Putting these together we have: Fallen angel = demon. But this is a error in translation of the word demon. Also the link of Satan as fallen Lucifer is not that good.
I should also note that much of ur infomration, such as it is, on the evils of the netherworld come not from scripture, per se, but from the beliefs and practices of the early followers of Christ, who made have had ideas or knowledge not directly recorded as it was not really part of the gospels.
Well a small part is from the 4 Gospels, but much of the rest is from the letters/Acts/Revelation, with some of the OT thrown in, but not all, some is speculation based on what we have. It would be helpful to know what specifically you are saying is not scriptural.
Are there more than two sides to this war? If one chooses to be “anti-Satan”, how can one not be “pro-God”? If I am “anti-Satan” but not “pro-God”, what am I?
Didn’t Satan fall because he was jealous of Mankind’s free will? If one doesn’t have free will how can they be jealous?
Using the Planescape analogy, I always liked the idea of the factions, found them far more compelling than a dualistic good/evil dichotomy. I liked the idea of oppositions, like the Harmonium across from the Doomguard etc… The way the wheel of the planes worked was pretty neat.
If Demons are evil angels and angels are simply machines. The machinery of God, then perhaps they simply represent archetypal roles, thus no real free will. Pagan deities, personifications of human characteristics that we have dubbed as ‘evil’.
Well, here:
you have a great deal of interpretation based on what I could only suppose is conjecture and outside teachings.
Getting down to specifics is not something I know much about. I’m simply aware that much of Christian belief doesn’t come directly from the gospels; the purpose was to teach the believers, and specifically about what they were supposed to be doing and not doing, not to teach about cosmological concepts.
Speaking of Planescape, I should point out that pretty much every one of the factions was actually hideously evil or outright insane. Oddly, the game writers seem to have forgotten even the basic rules themselves, and wound up with Lawful Good Paladins working for the mad schemes of a whacked-out Evil onsters (the Mercykillers).
There are 2 kingdoms at war with each other, Satan’s and God’s. As far as God is concerned if you are not for Him you are against Him, and He will judge you accordingly. Being against God does not automatically put you into Satan’s kingdom, as it appears that one can oppose both and be on their own.
There is a good deal of cross references in Ephesians, but the main gist of that is that our struggle is with being in the heavenlies, and demons appear to be earthbound.
As I pointed out with scriptural support it appears that demons are not (evil/fallen) angels but another creature entirely.
The purpose of the gospels is to spread the good news (gospels mean good news). What Christians are suppose to be doing is actually very simple, accept Jesus as their lord and savior, receive the Holy Spirit and let the Holy Spirit guide them. This was totally different from the earlier Jewish teachings of the laws of Moses. Yes the Holy Spirit can teach cosmological concepts. Some of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy and revelation.
Actually, I believe that’s incorrect. Spreading the Good News was going on and the Gospels are not directly connected to it. Rather, they teach the converted the history and practice of following Christ.
My understanding, having grown up Catholic and reading this and that, was that Lucifer and the angels do not perceive time as we do and, in essence, made their choice outside of time (not quite “eternally,” since God created them, but something close to that). Hence, they can’t change their minds, since all of their thoughts and actions seem to occur to them all at once.
That said, kanicbird, you do understand that this is all myth, don’t you? As in, not real?
Thanks.
And, didn’t Jesus say there was no middle ground, I mean between God and Satan? I cant remember what Gospel passage is from, but I’m sure there was something about “you’re either with me or against me,” somewhere.
That said, Aeschines, you do understand that your post is all opinion, don’t you? As in, not factual?
Thanks.
So if I fight against God I am on the side of Satan, and if I fight against Satan, I am on the side of God. If I tell them both to take a long walk off a short pier, I guess I’m on the side of a couple of MDs, right?
Yes, I did. The problem is that you cannot avoid that thorny question and still have a coherent discussion.
Well, the problem is that you could tell both to buzz off and live a life devoted only to your own interests. After death though, assuming both entities are real, you’re going to end up spending a looooong time with one side or the other. In this context of course.
If all I’m doing is assuming that both of them are real, I might as well assume that all the gods, goddesses and demons are real, right? Or does blind faith stop where the next religion begins?
I would think that having a belief in God and Satan would discourage belief in other religions. By assuming God and Satan exist, it doesn’t make sense to assume all gods/goddessess/faeries/pink unicorns exist. Of course, I’m getting the sense from your posts that you think all religious belief is invalid? I dont really want to get into a mano-y-mano debate though, just asking.
Which religion’s “God” and “Satan” are you referring to again?
I was thinking Catholicism, but now I’m confused. In any case, time for bed.
AND
Jesus did say ‘if you are not for me you are against me’ along with in Revelation wanting you to make your choice one side or another (from memory - you are neither hot or cold - I wish you were one or the other, but I will chew you up and spit you out for you are lukewarm). As far as God is concerned you are either for or against Him, and if you are straddling the fence during end times you will be forced to chose - and it won’t be pleasant.
But not being for God does not automatically mean you have enlisted with Satan, and you can stay in the flesh, which is still in opposition to God, and subject to demonic deception.
It’s a myth as far as our explanation of real live biblical creatures, denying the existance of demons is calling Jesus a lier.