DEPRESSION, DISABLED AND HOW I'VE MANAGED TO GET BETTER HELP.

In the USA, we do not give the attention to Mental Health Care that is needed, PERIOD. Public or private insurance, it makes no difference.

I pay slightly less than ten percent of my salary for health insurance. My salary is about $2000 over the poverty line (~8000).

For this, I am entitled to 200 dollars worth of prescription medications per year. (The cost of for a month’s prescription for the minimal dosage of an SSRI is ~60 dollars per month.) Likewise, I am entitled to 10 meetings with a psychiatrist/psychoanalyst per year. Hot damn, that’s almost once a month!

Yet there are many psych patients who require larger amounts of medication, or who require multiple medications. Most of these patients need to monitored by an MD (psychiatrist) regularly, and will only show progress when meeting with a therapist regularly (i.e. more than once every five weeks.)

I don’t mean to brag, but the U.S. is considered to have the best doctors in the world. When are the patients going to get something out of this?

I see no analogy between giving of your own free will and being forced into giving money.

With all the free time I had this week :), I went and did a little reading. I read a little Kant, and read some more Rand.

While I disagree with Kant on most things, Rand and I get a long most of the time. The biggest irony of this is how Rand rails against altruism. I have to admit that I need to read some pro-altruism essays before being able to compare them objectively, but I still thought it funny that you would post those links.

Maybe we have a very fundamental disagreement on what is moral.

I will read through the links.

Regarding my earlier rant, I seem to recall that the SSI benefit to drug addicts/alchoholics was taken away by Congress a couple years ago. (anyone with info please post)I apologize in that regard.
However, I know for a fact that a majority of SSI benefit requests are denied the first time, making the applicant wait another year or so. My point is, most newly disabled people (meaning such as those who can’t afford a $20,000 prosthesis needed to walk/work again) need this benefit mainly in the first few years after the accident/diagnosis, etc(ie: recovery and rehab period). Many disabled people return to the workforce after a few years. It just pisses me off that the government has to drag ass at the most crucial time. This post is mainly leaning (pun intended)towards amputees, but I think it applies to many other disabilities.
Thanks for listening

Uh, please pardon the terrible formatting of my above post.

You are correct. <b>90%</b> of the disability applicants are rejected the first time because <b>50%</b> will not reapply again, in which Social Security saves some money. (Whether or not many of those who do not reapply are faking it, ignorant of the disability process or not all that disabled in the first place, no one knows.)

Then you need to get a disability lawyer, who will work for 1/4 of your back payments. That is pretty easy. However, if you have no income bewteen the time you became disabled and the time you get disability, you are fucked.

The time from your initial application to the rejection can be 3 months. Then, if you act promptly, you’ll get a lawyer and reapply within a month. Then you get to wait probably 4 to 8 months until you get a disability hearing in front of a judge with your lawyer. After that, you get to wait another 2 to 3 months to find out if you are accepted or rejected. If accepted, within 30 days you get your back payments.

Now, you can get on Social Security Income during this time, but if you are on unemployement, it will not take effect until you run out of unemployement. Plus, it is going to be less than unemployement and will probably be within the $400+ a month range. You will get Medicare and Medicaid though. SSI stops when SSD takes over.

How many people can financially survive a year without adequate funds? Landlords will evict you, banks will take your home, car dealers will take your car back, and credit card companies will make your life a living hell. SSD and quite possibly, SSI will be delayed so long as you have over $1200 in the bank that you have access to.

You <b>MUST</b> be destitute before getting Disability.


What? Me worry?’

Oh, yeah. I forgot to mention the predatory programs which have sprung up for the well to do at the cost of the poor.

Banks will now reposes your home more quickly than before because there is a whole industry out there which thrives on the sale of ‘distressed’ properties to those wanting to fix them up and resell them at a profit. The television is full of such advertisements.

Since people have money to invest in stocks, companies now encourage them to buy up shares in slumping commodities like heating oil, corn and distressed products like vegetable crops flooded out in storms. Their profits are higher in the long run, but by doing such investing, they increase the prices of the goods for everyone at the retail sales level.

There seems to be a ‘vulture’ set out there, waiting for people to loose their homes so they can buy them up and resell them. Plus, now we have people waiting for disasters to hit, so they can invest in vegetable markets and reap higher returns when they force a 25 cent Bell Pepper up to $1.00 at the supermarket.

Plus, due to this little tendency, many produce growers no longer take much in the way of precautions to preserve their crops from harm because A: the government will provide some relief and B: the ‘vulture’ investors will keep the price of the remaining crops higher than the growers would have gotten normally.

A whole ‘vulture’ market is thriving out there, based on making profit from the hardships and tragedies of others. <b>THAT</b> became obvious when several cities were almost wiped out by storms and the cost of wood, window glass, cement and other things needed to rebuild soared.

Now, each time we enter storm season, it becomes a ‘wise investment’ for people to buy into the plywood, bottled water and canned food markets. That, naturally, increases the cost of the goods before any storm hits.

Plus, in many agricultural areas, people who can now afford it, are buying up acres of land and building on it which is actually decreasing the good farming areas. Distressed farms, put mostly out of business by major farming interests, sell quickly and become housing developments.

Cattle ranchers, using government leased lands, are somewhat starting to have some problems because the wide open grass lands they use are starting to be sold to developers, who put houses on them.

Locally, there is a strip of unique and very rich land which has been used for growing citrus for generations and has made the owing family very wealthy and the citrus in demand word wide. The strip is only a couple of miles in length but in the last decade, the new generation of the family has sold off a large chunk of this unique soil for condominium development. Acres of this special land is now buried under concrete and tar. It’s ocean side location has made it much desirable to developers and the remaining producing acres now can have their product increased in price.

Citrus is an almost necessary food for health.

The problem with predatory or vulture markets is that they care not for the damage they do to others and benefit only a few. In the very long run, those few will find that they have to pay more in taxes to take care of the people they helped distress and turn out onto the street.

So, where is the logic here?


What? Me worry?’

Somehow, it just doesn’t seem that black and white.

What you don’t mention is that banks will now lend money to more people than ever before since they can afford to take more risks (probably due in part to those increased opportunities for recovery). In the end, that means someone with a low income and less than perfect credit history can actually get into a house in the first place.

Of course, hundreds of industries rely heavily on futures to stabilize their markets and avoid going out of business in a particularly harsh year – an important safeguard to keep us afloat during disasters which would send less stable economies tumbling into depression.

So are doctors evil for making a living off people who are sick? Is buying life insurance evil because you’re gambling on human mortality? The things you mention are insurance policies that let us cope with unexpected disasters in order to avoid wild swings in prices, employment, health, etc.

Umm… supply and demand? If a whole area is demanding wood, glass and cement, the price is going to go up. In exchange, out-of-state vendors are willing to drive hundreds of miles to bring them those things right away. If the price were to remain the same, local companies would run out of supplies and no one would be willing to take the extra effort to ship in more with any special urgency. I’d rather pay more and get supplies sooner than live in a soggy cardboard box waiting in line to browse empty bins at the local lumber yard.

Of course, if we bar the housing developments, then all the people moving into those new houses will stay in the city instead, causing a severe housing shortage. Ever try to rent/buy a house in Silicon Valley? You can pay $550K for a house which would cost less than $100K a couple of states away.

In other words, if we don’t let people build new houses, rent is going to go up for everyone, and the first people out on the streets will be the poor.

The problem with long tirades like these is that they oversimplify complex problems where every action is going to favor some poor people and hurt others. It’s easy to blame the guy on top for a difficult situation, but there are subtle forces at work on every level and trade-offs to be made.

Nice job Meara.

Rainbow,

I can see why you and I are so far apart. I support the individual. I support freedom. I support choice. I support economic growth. I support opportunity. I support success. I support profits.

You support communal living. You support slavery to the community. You support government planning. You support defering your choice to others. You support economic stagnation. You support accepting your position in life and never trying to improve. You support handouts.

You sound bitter. Since the you can’t have it, no one else should be able to have it either.

You sound like you are demonizing the landlord, the bank, the car dealer and the credit card companies. Don’t forget that it is only because of them that you were able to have a roof over your head, a car to drive, and luxuries around you home.

Do you think it is a bad thing that you have to be destitute to get disability?

What a dirty word. PROFIT. Of course, if no one was making a profit, there would be no one to pay taxes. Then all thoise social programs that keep you propped up would collapse.

This is a great example of the problem with your thinking. You ACTUALLY admit that you think people fixing up distressed houses in bad neihborhoods is a bad idea.

You see? I knew you could do it. You really agree with me. You do. You agree that government subsidies have the effect of making people not work. Handouts are couner-productive.

I am not sure what you are talking about here. Are you talking about buying stock? Or are you talking about stocking up on the actual supplies?

Buying the stock of companies doesn’t effect the price of their products. Stocking up on the supplies is actually a risk to the business. If there is no need for the supplies, then they are over stocked. How compensates them for this? Of course, if they choose not to stock up you will be the first to complain that they ran out of supplies.

There is a simple concept you need to learn here:

Businesses do not, and can not operate soley on a social agenda. They operate for profit. If society really needs something, then there will be money in it for someone who provides it.

Another nice example of where we differ. You would choose to keep the loser, I support the winner. You prefer dstressed things, I prefer money making projects.

I challenge this fact. Could you please provide a link or a source?

You just hate the wealthy don’t you?

HATE HATE HATE.

Is this slim unique one of a kind so special cool and neat strip the only supply the world has of citrus? Somehow doubt it.

Does the NEW generation of owners have less right to do with the land than the old generation? If they could have made more money by selling the OJ, then they wouldn’t have sold off the land. Then…you actually complain about them setting the price of their own product.

These are the people building, impoving and shaping the world. The employ people, create places to live, and pay them money so they can live their lives.

You want them to bow down and listen to YOU? Do you really think that you know better than they do? It is only in your world that they are obligated to pay for you.

Dragging down the top to your level does not
raise you up one inch. Let the succesful people work. Leave them alone. Give them the opportunity to succeed or fail. Under your system no one would be trying at all.

meara
You over complicate far too much and over justify. You heavily agree with the making of profit to the extent of fleecing the public and creating problems for future generations.

Several days ago on the Discovery channel on Television there was a program concerning the Cattle growers V/S the newly spreading Buffalo population which may or may not carry a deadly disease that can infect cows. Mentioned in the report was the increasing pressure by developers to sell off major chunks of ‘preserve’ grasslands, leased by the cattle people for grazing. The government is giving in and the prices of available leased grasslands are going up.

What was not mentioned is that those lands were never to be sold, but increasing political pressures by businessmen eager to capitalize on the current ‘escape the city’ movement of the well off and to make a major profit is chipping away at these resources. These businessmen do not care what the future implications may mean, just how much money they can make.

As the ranges shrink, the lease prices go up and the cattle men pass it on to the buyers and we all pay for the few to live in ‘rustic’ luxury. The American Indians have also seen implications in this movement and are getting involved, mainly for the buffalo. Part of the side effect of the selling of the lands is that the buffalo are being denied some feeding grounds, which pushes them closer to the cattle, which scares the cattlemen because of potential disease and because of limited grazing and now the cattlemen want to start ‘culling’ the buffalo herds. (A nice way of saying they want to slaughter the beasts wholesale to save some grasslands.)

For every action there is a reaction.

I live in Florida and I’ve seen the ‘storm insanity’ hit each year. Several weeks prior to the start of the season, stores stockpile batteries and increase the prices, the cost of bottle water goes up and so does the price and supply of canned goods easily prepared in the event of a power outage – like soup, stews and so on. Each year the cost of plywood goes up and each year the lumber supply shops get in greater supplies! (Each friggin’ year the dipshits board up their homes and afterwards, throw the plywood out! Next year they’ll buy new sheets.)

After the season, prices drop.

A couple of years ago, I started noticing programs advertised on late night television encouraging people to buy into the distressed housing markets and giving off glowing reports about how, for pennies on the dollar, one may buy a repossessed home, slap a coat of paint on it and sell it at a great profit. Then I started observing an increase of repossession notices in the paper and the trades. THEN I got to meet people who actually bought these homes cheaply, invested in them and sold them for a profit and loved it.

A discussion with a banker informed me that the banks no longer wished to wait years to get the loans paid off on the houses because they wanted to expand further. (That’s why most started raising rates and charging for everything.) So, they foreclosed, resold the properties, made their money and went on. Their profit pictures actually increased.

Now, they dumped X number of families out onto the streets, who now have to rely on Social Services. That doesn’t matter. Not their problem. Not yours either – at least, not yet. Until one of those frustrated people trying to survive comes along and cracks your skull open to take what you’ve got in your wallet to buy food with.

Man, when I was down and out and living in the dirt, I did what needed to be done to survive and not all of it was nice. When it comes down to the point of dying from disease or starvation or holding up someone driving a new Lexis, a BMW, wearing a Rolex, sporting $100 shoes and dressed in $200 Gucci jogging shirts for a few bucks, guess which will be done?

By the way, in your statement concerning farming, where you stated you would choose to keep the winner over the ‘loosing’ small farmer I would like to point out the following. There is a growing concern over the spread of megacorporation farms. They can control the cost of seed, the availability of loans, the price of fertilizer and the value of crops. Their big lobbies control the congress. They push small farms out of the business by making it too costly for them to compete. Then they buy the farm and incorporate it.

Such moves are responsible for little things now, like you paying $1.00 for an American Tomatoes which costs 5 cents to grow. Other areas have observed this and have expressed concern because if the nations farmers belong to a few corporations, then our food will be controlled in price like the gas companies control our gas.

Those little competitors keep bread cheaply on your table. You know, beef is 50 cents a pound on the hoof or lower? Almost EVERY chunk of organic matter in a cow is used. Hooves for glue, meat for humans, bones for humans, hide for leather, inedible meats for pet food, manure for fertilizer, even bonemeal for plants and humans. The cattle people grow the beef for roughly 30 cents a pound. The slaughter houses buy it for 50. They resell it – in all of its various forms, for about 60 cents. The grocery stores sell it to you at anywhere from 98 cents a pound for crap meat to $1.98 for better cuts up to $10 a pound for the best.

Beef prices dropped after the big beef crisis, but the grocery stores did not reduce their prices, being willing to create hardships for buyers in the name of profit. As a side effect, people started buying cheaper meats, like chicken and pork. To compensate, the prices of those meats went up. (I used to buy chicken at 50 cents a pound. Now it’s anything from 68 cents to $1.98.)

People used to buy chicken wings for pennies a pound, until suddenly hot wings became popular, now they cost more per pound than a whole chicken. Side effects.

Who gets hurt? The poor? This is just and this is right?

Supply and demand you said. Thousands lost their homes so they needed to rebuild after the major hurricanes hit. (By the way, the loss of the homes was directly in relation to the cheapening of the construction rules which was in direct response to the increase in the cost of labor and building materials which was in direct response to the sudden ability for the newly well off to buy homes and for the very well off to buy and rent homes.) Everyone was concentrating on profit with no regard to the side effects.

Well, since most people had insurance, the construction companies upped their prices, so did the suppliers of materials. The only people who made out were the builders and the suppliers because their goods and services, being in demand, went up. All over the States, the cost of wood and glass, plumbing fixtures and pipes soared because of the demand for the effected areas.

We all paid the price. Several companies had to be brought to court for price gouging. Now, those guys who did not have insurance were able to get bank loans – at increased interest rates. With the creation of new building codes, the contractors and suppliers got even more money because home owners had to have the improvements installed.

We all paid because flood insurance went up nationwide.

The poor paid most of all because they could not afford the high prices in many things.

Now, I suppose that, to you, this is just fine. Free enterprise. Capitalism. Free enterprise is fine, until it starts preying on people. Notice how banks are no longer very friendly and charge up the ass for services? (Mine, I discovered, charges if I call in to the computer to check my balance. I get 3 free calls. Afterwards, they charge me $1.00 each. I dumped my business account when I discovered that they were charging me 25 cents for every check! I use a home owners account now with no overhead. Now they are working towards putting a service charge on those accounts if you have under $1000 in them and charging you for every check over 20. 5 cents.)

I guess that is OK for people like you.

Your comment about Doctors is just crap and

It sure is an interesting view you have from the bottom.

Of course if we all followed your prescription for economics we would all be joining you down there in a couple of years.

I’m tired of all the bitching and whining on this thread. I’ll make a deal with you. You go your way, and I’ll go mine. We will have zero contact with each other, and will each be 100% responsible for our own lives.

Hmmm…

You just can’t make a deal like that can you? Letting someone make all their own decisions and control all their own possessions is too much for you. I could make that deal, but I would still find you reaching into everyone’s pockets.

We disagree on a very basic level about this issue. I will take your Fuck You and happily walk away from this thread.

OKAY, I have to chime in here. I have not read all the thread, I apologize for that in advance, but I read about 7 of the messages and damn, I have to have my say.

First of all Rainbow, I am sorry for your situation, I respect your outrage, but as a fellow depressive (no I am not bi-polar, but they have suggested I might be) I am also ADD and an alcoholic. My mother was bi-polar, so I know the symptoms well. As for your other diagnosis’ I can’t fathom what they are like combined with your manic depression. However, I do know people with harder circumstances that somehow seek and get help.

Freedom, as much as you and I agree on the issue of using our taxes to help those that “feel they must be helped” without regard to our own lives, I must say your first post was kind of harsh considering the person’s state of mind.

That said Rainbow. It is obvious that unless you spend hours upon hours writing letters and such to the govt. you wont get what you want. I will also say this, there are a lot of charitable organizations out there that will do for you what you have been trying to accomplish for yourself.

No, I don’t think it’s right that you should demand from the government that you get help, that’s not fair to people like me who are making it work. I live without medical care, no medication, I am self employed which is a God-send because those days where I feel so shitty and want to lash out at the world I can hide at home and make up for it another day.

I too need dental care desparately. I haven’t had my 93 Honda worked on since I traded it in for my 95 Suburban…no oil changes, nothing. I have had my utilities threatened, my rent 2 months late etc…but I am the only one to blame, I refuse to ask the govt to help me. Well, I have stated my political views quite feverishly on other threads, but knowing where you are coming from and where I am I still can’t justify giving you my money when I am struggling myself.

My rent has been difficult to come by and lucky my landlord is also my friend, but that’s where we differ. He isn’t in it to make money like most landlords, he knows my situation.

But what I am getting at is, instead of pounding out hours writing letters, why not open a small business from your computer?

Hey I have done it, OpalCat’s done it…

Instead of trying to rely upon other’s to make your life easier, take some steps to make it easier for you. The government could give a rat’s ass about you or me. Look to charitable organizations if you need food. My parents have property that they donate for this very issue. The charity has a policy of not asking people why they need help. Much of the food is fresh fruit (when in season) staples etc…all donated via for-profit organizations. They do the begging for you, if you will.

Some even have vocational training. I think, from what I see in your writing you are a very intelligent person, use that and get to know HTML, PHP, SQL etc…and start an on line business…believe me, for people like you and me it’s the best way to earn a living.

But please don’t sit back and act like a victim when you know you could be using that manic energy to better yourself, you know it and I know it. I don’t take kindly on people living off my hard earned money when I am not far from the situation myself.

I have hit rock bottom, I know what it’s like so please don’t take my words as being harsh, just from an experience closer than many on this board can understand.

Rainbow…from one depressive to another, find something that works for you, it doesn’t mean you will make 100,000 a year but enough that you just might get by. And again, if you do something from your computer other than writing letters that actually is productive and gives you a little self-esteem you will be better off by it.

I must stress though, please quite taking money from people like me, that’s not fair to me either.

(now to read the rest of the thread)

Oh and BTW, I do have a panic disorder. I have discussed this on the board before so somewhere you can verify that, my ADD and my depression…but Rainbow…lke I said, use your intelligence and find a career in some online way…you don’t have to deal with a lot of people, you can set your own hours and if you don’t feel like working (unless you have a deadline) then you don’t have to. It’s a great alternative when you are what you say you are, trust me.

I am also a network consultant for my bro’s company. cool thing is, they and my brother know my situation and if I don’t go in (unless it’s an emergency) they generally grumble but have little to say.

DAMNIT…since this is THE PIT, I can say that.

Okay after reading more about what this thread turned into…what some of you people are not interpreting with Freedom’s approach to this whole situation is (and other’s have said it) Rainbow has taken it upon his self / her self in the OP to have the “whoa is me attitude.”

HEY, now don’t start with me on the issue of my political beliefs as I have already stated my own situation which is not all that far from Rainbow’s, but somehow I am able to make ends meet without govt. help.

I agree that one should not demand anything from anyone, this is coericion.

Again, there are charitible organizations out there that will and can do far more for Rainbow than the govt will ever do…

Would you people get off Freedom, Lib and Sake asses? Shit, I am closer to the situation than most of you (that I know of) and although I agree the postings are harsh in the words, from what I can tell they are caring and understanding people.

But from my perspective, as someone that is slightly a lesser degree from Rainbow I sure as fuck don’t want my taxes (forced payment) going to someone else when I can’t afford many of the same damned things myself!

OH and NO, as a matter of principle, I refuse those kinds of hand outs from the govt. If I can’t afford it (even though 47% of my income is going towards taxes) then I will have to live without my medications, dental care and other things that are important to my life…but I stand tall in my beliefs.

[SIGH]

I’m going to defend Rainbow here, mainly because it seems like none of the others are and I figure the several major depressives we have on the SDMB want to wisely stay out of the firing line least they be attacked.

Technichick, from what I know and have extensively read up on – you have mild depression. Big fucking difference from sever depression. If you ain’t on pills, then you aint very sick because if you were, you’d be grabbing for the pills. You can’t compare Opal with Rainbow or even Byz – who has displayed the signs of depression in the past. (You think her overt hostility just might be a bit of projection along with frustrated anger due to her depression? You think her ability to track down everything which anyone suspicious says on this board, locate potential and often improbable connections just might a symptom of the manic stage?

Besides, in one of Rainbows posts he stated that he cannot work and why, including facing anything dealing with a job where he has to keep anything like a time table. (One of my friends, who is depressed and has corporate burn out, has that exact same symptom. He finds it difficult having to keep appointments on time with his doctors even!)

AGORAPHOBIA: Mmm. I’ll let Rainbow explain it. Unlike anyone else here, I contacted him and got a text file of his Congressional letter.

Sounds sweet?

Opal can run a computer business but from time to time, she seems to have this tendency to try to kill herself. Rainbow can’t run one, but he has not yet attempted suicide – at least not that I know of. Opal’s depression and diagnosis is different from his. Yours is different from both of theirs.

I’ve know depressives who I’ve chatted pleasantly with one evening and the next day discover that after I left, they went ‘off’ and became delusional and were picked up by the cops, mumbling to themselves walking down the street in the rain in their underwear, several miles away from their homes. After 24 hours in the local clinic, they popped back to normal, with no recollection of doing the incident. I’ve also know depressives with anxiety effective disorders who have problems deciding what type of hamburger to order for lunch because it is a DECISION and it must be made within a certain time because people behind them are waiting.

I am pleased that you are so independent - possibly even to the point of self destruction. The majority of the nation feels that some people require assistance, which is why we have an extensive Social Service System. Lets see how tough you are if you catch some nasty disease and find that the medication which can cure you is too expensive for you to buy. (I keep thinking about all of those AIDS patients out there and that $100 a dosage medication which they need to prolong their lives. It certainly is not manufactured at $100 a dosage.)

Then I think about the drug companies, which in the last 25 years, have gone from ‘serving the sick’ to ‘providing a service to the sick’ to ‘screwing the sick.’ Someone realized that major profits could be made by making drugs the people need to stay healthy and promptly jacked the prices up enormously. Then the pharmaceutical lobbies made sure that bills to control the prices died in the Senate.

There is no excuse for anyone in this nation to suffer and die because of lack of money. Lady, let me clue you in on dental stuff. Bad teeth can kill and can cause ages of agony which can drive a person nearly nuts. They’ve even dug up ancient bones of people who died from dental abscesses.

If you have curable depression and curable anxiety disorders and are not getting treatment for them, then you are a fool. I’ve known a lot of people like you who ‘stand tall and proud’ refusing help for various reasons and then, one day, we bury them. Unfortunately, a couple of them stood too tall and took a few others with them.

I had a girlfriend who had a curable, depression based mental disorder but, after going for therapy and not getting immediate results, she refused to go anymore. She also did not like the side effects of the pills and was not willing to try others. After a year of her getting increasingly erratic, temperamental and suicidal, we broke up. a year later, her family committed her after she tried to kill herself and her then current boyfriend.

She’s fine now. It took 3 years of therapy and medication to set her right. She’s sorry she refused help before.

From what Rainbow and others have had to go through just to get some help that the government offers them, I think if he chooses to act like a victim, he has earned it. I’m still involved in Social Security Advocacy and relief for the poor. I’ve seen hundreds who are at their wits end with no income aside from SSI or Disability, living on the street or in piss poor accommodations and unable to get or hold a job.

I’ve also observed how many can readily return to work once they manage to get the care and assistance they need. (Darn. I’ll bet any significant others you have don’t turn to you for sympathy, do they?)

You all out there who bitch and call Rainbow a whiner are doing quite well now. Making good money, handling any problems, able to get what you need, coping with life and what is thrown at you or having supportive people around. (AGORAPHOBIA = Rainbow is reclusive. No friends.)

His original post was intended to let those like him know that they can get help if they stand together and bitch. He even offered ways to show them how to get it and displayed his own experiences to show that there is hope out there.

Most of you bastards have accused him of stealing food from your mouths, called him a whiner, a low life, a dead beat, a welfare bum, and expressed opinions indicating that if he cannot help himself, then he should die and be done with putting a burden on society, who needs their time and money to buy luxuries with. Some have even indicated that he is cheating the system. Others have said that he should be glad of the crust of bread the government gives him and should shut up about it. (I liked the Dickens comparison.)

By the way. Isn’t it funny that Medicaid will not pay for so many expensive and needed medications but will pay for Viagra? I guess fucking, which causes pleasure, is more important than keeping someone alive. Fucking is more popular than just curing a disease that causes pain.

By the way, as for web businesses, 6 or 8 of my friends have run them – and given them all up because of insufficient income and too much time spent trying to keep their web pages up to date. I checked into it and didn’t find anything I thought I could do, but then, my expertise is elsewhere.

Just a comment here for FREEDOM.

Sorry, but I’m not at the bottom anymore. I make 6 figures a year, have a great retirement plan created by me and some good insurance.

Ah’ve been movin’ awn up to de big time! It’s just that I haven’t lost contact with those who supported me when I was down and out.

Nuttin’ like hobo stew in a folgers can cooked over an open fire! Flatbread baked in tin foil on a slab of iron buried in the coals and some of that $1.98 quart of flavored, malt liquor (sweet beer) with the added percentage of alcohol they don’t tell you much about but what will give you a good buzz that lets you get to sleep at night so’s you can get up, wash in the cold water from a tap behind a store, (Using pliers to turn it on because the owners pulled the knobs off.) and walk 3 miles to the slave market, where you wait for someone to pick you for a job and you get to bust ass all day doing scutt work no one else will do, while the boss orders you about and you make minimum or below, wage. Plus you pay your 10% to the job service and your 19% to the taxes. (If you pick in the fields, some places pay you by check – and then will cash that check for you for 5% of the total knowing that most banks will charge the same if you don’t have an account with them and check cashing places will do the same also.)

I don’t forget.

Too many people already have.

On the contrary, I have been laboring to point out that the ideology <i>you</i> propose will lead to stagnation and decay. Those evil “profits” are necessary to keep this country going. Without them, we’d have shoddy service, lazy workers, long lines and empty shelves.

I didn’t see the show, but would hazard a guess that these business men are not holding guns to anyone’s heads. They’re offering money. At a certain point, the government is probably deciding that the money being offered is worth more than the land they’re trying to protect.

Are the businessmen at fault here? Or rather did the government underestimate the value of that land? Or maybe both made a good deal and we are moving toward a society which prefers to build up technology and import food? I’m not sure I’m qualified to choose between the latter possibilities, but I’m pretty sure it’s not the first one.

Animal protection agendas aside, this is a normal course of civilization. When a particular industry’s land becomes more valuable to the people (as represented by their government) for something other than that industry, we often turn to imports to replace it and pay somewhat higher prices there in exchange for other growth. Part of the U.S’s booming success is its willingness to be on the cutting edge of R&D. This means we import more of our necessities, but also raises the standard of living for 95% of the country. If the government (i.e. the people) value housing over cattle ranching, then they’ve made a decision to pay less for rent and more for beef.

Help me out here – who exactly are you angry with?

Would you rather that the local stores not overstock, so that when a storm hits, the shelves empty in 20 minutes and not everyone can prepare? Or perhaps the storekeeper should overstock but charge the same prices, so that if a storm doesn’t hit, he gets to eat all those extra beans and go out of business? Or maybe, just maybe, it’s the PEOPLE in the area who should realize that business thrives on steady demand and should learn to keep their own stock of supplies instead of raiding the stores right before a storm hits.

If you ask the stores to take all the risk for something as unpredictable as the weather, just so that local residents don’t have to worry about advanced prices, then YES the prices are going to go up! Those stores are providing more than your run-of-the-mill service… they’re acting as insurance as well.

Here’s a question… Why aren’t you angry that convenience stores charge higher prices than grocery stores? After all… they’re gouging the public!! Could it be that they’re actually providing a service to the immediate public who is willing to pay more to know that they will never run out of milk (even though nobody might buy their overstock)? If you forced them to lower their prices, they’d either let the shelves empty or say it wasn’t worth the risk and would pack up and go elsewhere.

As I’ve said before, this practice may seem reprehensible, but you have to look at the other side. Mortgage-lending is now a much more attractive business. Sure, they will foreclose on you more quickly, but they will also lend you the money more readily in the first place. This really hurts people who have paid for years but are down on their luck and thus lose their homes. This really helps people who have been down in the dumps but want to climb out and buy a house.

You’re thinking of those higher profits as money in the lender’s pocket. That’s true to an extent, but it’s that extra money that makes him willing to take a risk on the next poor guy who enters his office. Instead of subsidizing the person who can’t make payments, he’s giving a chance to the guy who hasn’t yet proven he can make payments. You may not like that exchange, but the truth is, it’s helping some poor and hurting others (as opposed to your claim that it’s just making the rich richer at the expense of the downtrodden).

How about this more rational thinking: The guy who loses his house for lack of payment rents the cheap apartment just vaca

Unfortunately Sentinel, you don’t know the depths of my depression.

I go through at least 2 deep (clinically severe) depressions per year. This last one has been going on since December of 98 – no meds you asshole. Sorry, but don’t you fucking sit there and under estimate or pretend to know what the hell I go through on a daily, weekly, monthly and now yearly basis.

I also explained that finding something computer wise is a great option – HEY, can’t I give a suggestion without you climbing down my back? This is a perfect option for those that have a hard time being around people but need to make some money to make ends meet. In Rainbow’s circumstances, this is a perfect opportunity to use his/her computer get back on track rather than sitting there and writing letters all day. That’s not productive, learning HTML etc would be a great way to get Rainbow back in the swing with little investment in time, could be making enough money to pay rent and get food.

AND as I stated, my mother was bi-polar, she worked. Yeah, she was on medications but this was back in the late 70s and early 80s when the meds weren’t as good or powerful at controlling her behavior. But somehow she did it.

I never said there isn’t help out there. There is, it’s a matter of looking to the right source. The government doesn’t give a crap about most people, so aside from my political beliefs, why the hell don’t more people look to local charitable resources for help when they need it? Those people care more and have more compassion when it comes to those that need help. They are sitting there picking up a check, they are there because they honestly care.

OH and yeah, it does tick me off that I barely make ends meet because of my own similar circumstances but I still have to pay taxes to help others. I may not be bi-polar, and I may not seem to you to have any level of understanding, but I have been there, where I couldn’t work. I didn’t work for 15 months because of my depression, so I know more about this than you apparently do.

< turning off the bull horn now…staying away from this thread or I might pop an artery >

< damn bullhorn is still on >

I only brought up OpalCat as a reference, not something for you to bring to light her issues…leave her out of this.

Sorry OpalCat that I brought up your name…please forgive me.

< bullhorn off now, really >

Maybe major depression means something different for everybody. (Hey, we’re all special, right!) But when I have gone through major depressive episodes, I have lost ALL ability to take care of myself- including eating, showering, and working. Two months spent curled up in the fetal position rocking back and forth crying and muttering. Sometimes it was the corner of my bedroom, sometimes the corner of my office.

Luckily I am in a profession where temporary insanity is not unheard of and employees are not very easy to replace. But not everybody can do the work I do.As for running one’s own business, you can bet that the home business of a person who is emotionally incapacitated for several months is pretty much guaranteed to go whirling down the tubes.

While I know from experience that if you get 100 people in a room and offer them a theoretical problem, you will get about 75 different solutions and that each of us has various opinions, when it comes to human suffering, there should be but a few, concise solutions.

X number of people feel that all humans who are disabled and poor need to seek out other charities than sucking from the teat of the government because their taxes are drained into the government coffers and they resent being forced to pay for something from which they get no benefit. Besides, this encourages the poor and disabled to fuck off and not recover or be productive.

(I’m getting a headache again.)

Others feel that if they toughed out their debilitating disorder, deigned to accept the help offered by the government – which probably would have cured their illness or made living with it much easier – that all people should be able to do this and stop whining.

A few feel that the existing government programs to help the poor and disabled are sufficient and should be used.

Some feel that the existing programs to assist the poor and disabled are insufficient, inadequate, poorly run and being used mainly to steal funs from for other projects.

I tend to agree with the last.

MEARA Spoken like a typical capitalist and one who has no major problems in one’s life.

Spoken like a banker. Actually, what usually happens is that once the people are evicted, they might find a place to rent where they have to pay more than their mortgage, which forces them deeper into poverty. (You think all of those people living in cheap motels by the month did so by choice? Whole families living in one room and paying $500 or $800 a month, which, efficiently trapped them there because with both parents working minimum wage, they could not get up first, last or security for a place or the required deposit for power. (I helped couple I know move and they had to come up with $1000 first and last, plus $500 security, plus $100 power deposit, plus $75 cable deposit and a $50 phone transfer. $1725 all totaled just to get in the place!)

So, in reality person A who is kicked out of his house by the bank usually winds up in distressed housing and has to apply for government assistance. Theoretical person B who moves from an apartment to A’s house rarely happens. Instead couple C buy the house at cost, invest around $2000 in it, slap it up on the market and sell it at a cost too high for person A to have bought it in the first place. They make a profit and go on to buy up more homes, encouraging the banks to dump more people on the street.

(I don’t think you recall the farming crisis in the Midwest in the 1970s when the Arabs fucked us over in the oil and people suddenly were out of work with no jobs available. Banks foreclosed on homes one right after the other and dumped people out into the streets. The great government backed agricultural loan agency called in notes on farms knowing the people could not pay.)

I guess you never read about that city in the northern states, I forget the name, which used to have a General Motors plant. (Michael Moore wrote about it in ‘Roger and Me.’) General motors shut down and thousands lost their homes. The banks called in the notes and the land lords evicted tenants. The town was almost wiped out. Thousands of families were left on the streets. MOST of the homes and apartments went empty for months because no one had enough money to rent them.

The land lords did not have to worry too much because the government allows them to take of so much a year in unpaid or lost rent. The banks cut their own noses off to spite their faces.

It used to be that in hard times, local businesses supported the local economy by carrying credit, taking barter, exchanging goods for labor and so on. Banks used to extend notes, accepting what payments they could get, often stopping the interest to get the principal paid and concerned about keep a family sheltered so they could potentially find a job.

That all changed. In times of disaster, stores double their prices on needed goods and don’t carry credit, notes or accept barter. Banks dump the people on the streets in hopes of reselling the property fast. They don’t give a shit about the family anymore. The people who make the decisions have never met them!

Now, local charities. Churches will help out some if you are a member. They will help out less if you are not but they will not consistently assist one, nor will any form of private charity. (Why do you think so many seriously ill people solicit donations in stores for needed operations?)

Some charities open discount food stores where people with disability cards may buy donated foods real cheap but their supply is limited. (Great businesses have sprung up where people buy dented goods once donated to charity by the producers. They then sell these semitrailer lots to people who open bent and dent stores. The producers would rather sell the goods for a small price than give them away – so charitable donations drop. This is enterprising! This is good business but the side effects mean that only a few profit while a great many others suffer because of the loss of the once available goods.)

The same with the ‘vulture’ businesses I have mentioned. People have found ways to make money off of the hardships of others and, in my opinion, that is not right. It reminds me of the infamous carpetbaggers from the civil war era.

The human laws often gray the areas between right and wrong, but to me, there is a RIGHT and a WRONG in doing things that affect other people. (That is why we have laws preventing people from selling us patent medicine, claiming that it will cure all of our ills when in actuality, it contains mercury, alcohol and bitters and will probably kill people and help few.)

If a person is starving in the streets and you are stuffing yourself with more food than you could eat and have larders full, you are wrong if you do not feed them.

In another post, I mentioned that when I was down and out, others like me shared their hard won food and goods with me. Plus, I did the same for them. Those who I later met who had plenty of money were reluctant to share anything … even when I reached their social status.

On another note, there are MANY charities, but only certain ones benefit the poor and disabled and out of those, curiously, many of them have become ‘businesses’ where up to 50% of the donations go into operating costs.

I recall, some time back, in some state, where prisoners made car tags and earned a whole 10 cents an hour, dropped the price of car registration and made things better for all, some businesses sued the government because THEY wanted to make the tags. They won. The prisoners lost their ‘occupational therapy’ and a couple of places started making the tags, charging the government more per tag than the prisoners had, and the cost of car registration went up. Plus, the tags were so cheaply made that the government had to force them to do it right, whereupon, they did, and upped the price of the tags again.

So, because of ‘good business’ practices which benefits a few hundred people, several hundred thousand had to pay the cost. By the time the government got around to thinking of giving the tag business back to the prisons,