What principle is that?
[Moderator Hat ON]
Ok, I’ve waffled on this one but it seems pretty clearly Pit-bound. It’s a pity, since I think it’d be a good Great Debate, but if I went through and cleaned up all the obscenities and personal insults there’d be about three words left.
[Moderator Hat OFF]
Good move, Gaudere. Although it means I’m hanging out in the Pit again.
For the record, in case any of the more brain-damaged people on this thread haven’t gotten it through their head or the people who have just come to it don’t have the necessary background:
- Rainbowcsr is a clinical depressive, with a endocrinal-neuropsychiatric disorder that requires medication to stabilize mental health. We have more than one other poster with this problem.
Your opinion about “people who can’t handle bad days” is not welcome here. We are talking the difference between someone who calls in sick because they stayed up until 4:00 AM partying and someone who has had a leg amputated and cannot convince the government he cannot work at his old warehouse/docks job with only one leg. Rainbow’s is a diagnosed medical condition with a prescribed course of treatment that he/she is having problems affording.
- I think whether or not “the government should /should not provide people handouts/needed help” is a good general Gret Debate on political/economic grounds. But in case nobody has gotten the point here, **we’re not starting from scratch. There are laws in place to help people like Rainbow **(whether or not strong conservatives or libertarians think there ought to be) and they are not providing the help.
My take on this is:
- Maybe you don’t feel that your taxes should go to help anybody else. That’s your business. (And someday, it’ll be your judgment.)
- Maybe you think it’s fair that we pay taxes in order that people who need help can get it.
- Social Security, despite all the general foofaraw about how it’s a sort of government-run pension plan, is a tax whose purpose is to provide help for the elderly and diabled who are unable to support themselves. Check the original laws on this. We’ve been paying into Social Security, as a people, for 65 years, on this premise.
- Whether or not you feel that this sort of thing should happen, it is nothing short of criminal to levy taxes for the purpose of doing it and then not doing it.
If we have one well-to-do conservative poster from Florida, I would suggest it might be worthwhile to get ahold of Rainbow, get documentation of what he/she has done to date, and then jerk around the appropriate officials – elected officials are excellent levers for such jerking, if you can interest them in a supposed malfeasance/nonfeasance situation – to get Rainbow the help the law says he/she is entitled to.
It sounds to me like somebody is getting tired of connecting Rainbow with resources and just blowing off the case, on a first-impression runthrough.
That said, Rainbow, there is a point to some of the people you probably see as against you. Your post does come across as sounding like “I deserve all this.” And there’s nothing that irks a hard-working person more than hearing somebody with some problem saying they deserve to be supported at taxpayer expense.
Yes, you have a disability that needs care, and probably have no possible way to earn any part of your care. And that’s what the various SS funds are for. But your case would be stronger if you didn’t imply repeatedly that you deserve this stuff – rather that you’re one of the people that the law was passed to provide help for, and therefore have an entitlement under its terms.
I reiterate my point – whether or not anybody thinks Rainbow “ought” to get stuff at government expense, as an abstract political question, is not pertinent to whether he/she should be helped by a system in place that takes tax money to provide help to persons like him/her.
I’ll bet that nobody is half as pissed off at the dodo who has refused Rainbow benefits sucking at the public tit, when said dodo is probably quite physically capable of doing something useful in society, as they were at Rainbow, a disabled person, for making noises about what the law says he/she is entitled to.
My, my, my.
Freedom is one of the most despicable human beings I have ever “met.”
Shayna, I apologize for a crack I once made to you on another thread. You talked about looking down on yourself and I asked how that was possible. I meant, at the time, that it’s physically impossible to look down on yourself, even with mirrors. I had no idea you were referring to depression, which is something I’ve struggled with myself, though not to the degree to which Rainbow is suffering. Hope to see you at the shindig this Saturday.
Libertarian: What is the philosophy whereas we take care of our own when they are sick and/or injured? Try “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” Try “If he asks for your cloak, give him your coat as well.” Try “We ARE our brother’s keeper.” I honestly do not see how one can be both a Christian and a strict Libertarian, 'cause your philosophy sems to be “Help others of your own free will, but if you don’t have the will, it would be wrong to be forced to care for them.” Certainly sounds like Freedom’s philosophy as well. Seems to me that a truly good person would not resent being required to help others.
You should know what my sig line is by now, but it seems to me that you two, and Samurai, are the social Darwinists in our little band. You guys are a throw-back to the days when Man lived in small tribes and it was necessary to abandon the sick and injured for the good of the whole. But our tribe is a lot bigger and stronger and wealthier now and we no longer have to take such drastic measures to ensure our survival. BTW, anthropologists believe compassion and altruism is an evolved trait. Those who lacked it never were able to build a tribe big enough to compete. I guess those who lack it, those who must be forced to help others, must not be evolved.
Freedom, name me one country that exists today or existed in the past that did NOT levy taxes and was nevertheless a fit place in which to live. If you can find such a country, go live there, please. This country will NEVER become the tax-free utopia you’d like it to be, so don’t waste time, just leave right now.
I hear Kosovo’s nice this time of year…
>< DARWIN >
__L___L
Interesting. I had not considered Rainbow’s post as sounding demanding but more or less like someone who has run headlong into the frustrating social service system quite a few times.
My previous comment concerning ‘minorities’ – so quickly picked up on by FREEDOM – was not intended as bigotry but fact. For a couple of years and, even now, I have taken acquaintances to Social Services and found the majority of the initial staff to be Black or Hispanic – like there are no others who can do the job. I also have seen these equal members of society sit and chat by the hour with members of their own races, while white and Asian people sit in the smelly room by the hour, waiting for an interview. Plus, I have seen them got far out of their way to help members of their own race while doing very little for those of ANY other color and often being downright insulting to them.
It goes on, which is one of the big problems with Social Services.
This is an election year and if Rainbow is going to make an impact for those he is trying to help – along with himself, it will be now. I don’t suppose Libertarian and Freedom happened to notice that he is trying to get help for others also? It also looks to me that Rainbow has managed to take the time to ‘step down’ from his former lifestyle and see what happens to the poor and the ill here in America.
I knew exactly what he was talking about when he started discussing people he had met. You know, a mentally disabled person has a tendency, in some instances, to commit minor crimes. They are almost always convicted. Most of the crimes are to get money for survival. Some use the money to buy booze or drugs with to ‘mask’ the voices in their heads, to take them away from the black depression or to make them feel good for a little time.
I’ve given money to such people KNOWING what it was going to be used for, but, in reality, after seeing their state, I could not blame them. One person, in such a quandary, ‘borrowed’ $20 from me, but I stipulated that she was NOT to use it for booze. She hesitated, took the money, turned to a friend, gave it to him and asked him to give her $20 of his own. He did. Then she was able to use the money to buy booze because ‘he’ had my money and she had his. She kept her agreement.
I was impressed. I did not exactly mind her getting the booze either, considering the constant hassle she had with Social Security, the power company, her land lord and housing. I mean, the government gives these people jack shit and expect them to be able to use it to live like they won a chunk of the lotto when they are lucky if it pays the rent, pays the power and there is anything left over for food.
I ran into that * wonderful* regulation from HOUSING concerning heating. Apparently, since housing usually places the poor and disabled in distressed, elderly or high crime places that no one else particularly wants, they are equipped with gas or space heaters. Someone must have managed to burn a place or two down with them. So, now, HOUSING does not allow gas or space heaters – a cheap way to get heat in the winter. Reverse cycle air conditioners are needed. THOSE REALLY SUCK UP THE POWER come winter. Plus, not too many landlords will install them without upping the rent and HOUSING will not increase the original allotments, so the renter winds up paying the land lord additional rent on the side.
So, this tax-sucking, deadbeat who REFUSES to work and is already FAKING and mental illness, so he or she can be abused and kicked around to get enough money to live far below the poverty level gets to live in often questionable housing in often unpleasant neighborhoods and gets to pay additional costs for living there because of the HOUSING rules.
Here’s a quick figure: Person Joe Lazyass is ‘disabled.’ He gets $495 a month plus $20 in food stamps. So long as he remains below $600 a month, Medicaid will buy his medication. Now, he lives in an old wooden house which rents for $450 a month. HOUSING will pay $375, because they do not consider it worth $450. The land lord makes a deal with Joe to cover the rest. So Out of that $450 he now pays $75 towards undeclared rent. HOUSING has the land lord install reverse cycle A/C. It costs the landlord $1000 in increases the value of the place. The rent goes up between the guy and Joe to $100 a month. He has left $350. Power, during the winter, goes up to $150 a month because of the heating unit – (if he used space heaters, he could have saved $75 a month by heating only the rooms he needed). That leaves him $275. Car ins is at least $31 a month. = $244. (No phone – he can’t afford it. No cable because even the most basic is too costly.) Miscellaneous costs come to $50 a month which are for things like soap, over the counter medical supplies, salvation army clothing, gas for the car, cleaning stuff for the house and so on. = $194. Now, food costs him about $200 a month. = +20 (food stamps) = $14 left. Life Insurance (if his company does not have a disability plan which will stop premiums until he gets better) $16 a month = - $2.
Sooooo, tell me, how is he going to get anything else he needs. Bounce one check and his bank will charge him $25, which they will instantly deduct from his automatic deposit of his disability check and cut him short for the rest of the month. NOW, if the bank did not pay the check that bounced, the payee will tack on another $20, which will come out instantly. So, he will be down $40 at the get go.
These days, you MUST have a bank account because fewer and fewer banks will cash a government check for free. Money orders cost at least $1.00 in the store. (Banks charge $2.00.) A check cashing place will take from 2 to 5% of the check for cashing it. IF he has a basic checking account, the bank will charge him at least a $6 a month service charge PLUS 25 cents per check for anything over 10 or 20 checks. (They might have a free, no-load account but they will not automatically switch him to it nor encourage him to do so and he might no do it because, if mental, he might not make the connection.)
His actual monthly finances can be $10 in the hole. The bank will take their fees off of the top. I had to bail out a friend who bounced A check, the resulting fees made him bounce another, which in turn bounced one more. By the time I became involved ALL OF HIS DISABILITY CHECK WAS GOING TO THE BANK! I covered his losses, stabilized his account and threatened to go to the press with the banks harsh treatment of a person who could barely manage himself. (It seemed, when he used to make $60,000 a year, he would bounce a check now and then and the bank would pay it, call him, give him time to get money in and NOT CHARGE HIM. When his income fell to the Disability amount of $1000 a month, the bank stopped calling, started charging him and would send out bounced check notices ** a day after the check bounced** which would take 3 days to get to him. By then, his bounced check had been turned around and RETURNED to bounce again and gather more bounced check charges.
Great trap isn’t it?
By the way, many of you might not like me, and I don’t give a fuck, but I work heavily with the poor and disabled and I don’t like the way so many ‘normal’ people treat them and don’t even get me started on rent scams and slumlords. (One congressman owns a whole bunch of local, ratty and tremendously over priced tiny apartments in the Black community. Slumlord.)
I met a real bum once. Some druggie, making $14.50 an hour as a carpenter and hanging around with some disabled friends of mine, sucking off of their hospitality. He asked me how to get disability, and I started to tell him, until I got this odd feeling and asked him why, because he did not look disabled. He said it seemed like a good scam, getting paid to do nothing and working on the side, under the table like he was doing, for even more money.
I did not finish telling him how to apply for disability. I threw him out of my friends house without opening the screen door. (I rebuilt the door
Shayna, thanks for yet another post exposing your vast, somewhat amazing talent for missing the entire point. I was not saying that he isn’t disabled, but rather mental disabilities are not (by their very nature) obvious and that he would receive more compassion and public aid if he had a clear physical disability like the loss of digits and crippled legs.
And by the way, your language is base, immature and revealing. This debate should have remained in GD.
Mary Hart’s Legs, I was going to mention how far you must have your head up your ass, but I like your user name too much.
Durno, you needed to have your eyes opened wide.
And why is it that you liberal socialists are always the first to claim that those with opposing views are “damaged”. Your philosophy is fetid and masochistic.
Poly, damn you yet again and your rational, good-natured humanity, too! 
Jab1, drastic measures are still required. Your comprehension of anthropology is even weaker than your understanding of human behavior. Are you really trying to say that altruism is an evolved trait which enabled homo sapiens to become dominant? I hope not, because that’s the dumbest thing I’ve heard all week.
You asked Freedom to:
Look no further than the ground you stand on. While not technically a country, the majority of North American indigenous tribes did NOT levy taxes and managed a quality of life which escapes most of us even today.
You guys think Freedom, Libertarian and I are bad, huh? We’re lightweights compared to Sentinel, who:
and then he:
Now THERE’S compassion!! I bow to you sir!
Yet to be reconciled with the reality of the dark for a moment, I go on wandering from dream to dream.
jab1 says:
sentinal says:
auntipam says
Durnovarianus says
Well, you can pile all those thoughts, feelings and sentiments onto me as well. I side with Libertarian and Freedom on this one.
And just realize that before you go calling me greedy, heartless and whatever else, just realize that you have absolutely no idea what kind of charitable work that I am a part of. I feel no need to parade it around here as some sort of “I really do care” badge that seems to surround a whole lot of charitable work. It’s disgusting, really.
Look, Rainbowcsr, I do feel bad for your situation. But I think it is up to individual charities to help you out, not the government. And you can post example after example of this type of thing:
Guess what? That shit fucking pisses me as well. But don’t use “the government throws all this money around everywhere else” as reasoning for why you should get it. Individual charities and religious organizations should be helping you out. I repeat, not the government. You really think if you went to a local church or synagogue or temple or whatever(fill in worship house of your religion here) in your area that you would be turned away and shunned? I doubt it.
rainbowcsr also says:
WTF is that? Threatening statements get you do not help your cause at all. You can best believe that (in the right state of mind or in a “BIPOLAR DEPRESSIVE WITH AN ANXIETY AFFECTIVE DISORDER, OBSESSIVE COMPULSIVE BEHAVIOR AND AGORAPHOBIA” state of mind) if you were living next door to me and tried to pull anything at all with my family, it would be the last thing you ever did. If I have misconstrued what this statement of yours means, that I will retract that last one of mine in a heartbeat. But you stating that you have social and sexual disorders and then saying “What if I lived near you?”–I don’t see how else you could have meant it.
What’s up with demonizing Freedom and Libertarian for their political views? Sure, Freedom’s words may have been harsh, but the OP wasn’t exactly endearing either.
If you read their posts, they are not suggesting that we let people rot on the streets if they can’t afford the basics – they simply believe such charities are best run privately, not publicly. Given Rainbow’s experience with government assistance, I’d say that view isn’t so far-fetched.
So if you must continue to ignore their valid arguments and blindly question their morality, please add me to that shit list too. Looking at the state of social welfare programs today, I want them off the tax roll and into private hands ASAP. Stop taking my money for useless bureaucracy and let me give it to someone who will actually make a difference.
Er… what mouthbreather said. :o
At least someone read my posts.
Next time I get into one of these threads, I am going to try Libertarian’s and Samurai Sake’s approach.
I admit that I concentrated too much on Rainbow. My issue is with anyone, no matter how messed up, that thinks they have a right to another person’s property.
I thought those guys did a decent job of keeping the debate focused on the issue and not on Rainbow. For awhile there I thought I was the only who thought that.
mouthbreather
I had the same interpretation and thoughts on Ranibow’s little threat. I was so far passed where I wanted to be in here that I had to let it go. I’m glad you jumped in and called him on it.
I found it interesting that no one found that worth commenting on, nor did anyone really address the fact that he seems to be stealing. I guess whoever is getting robbed just doesn’t need those medications as much as Rainbow.
From each according to their ability.
To each according to their need.
This absolutely stinks, in moral, political and economic terms. Okay, freedom includes the right to be a ruthless, self-absorbed pissant but that doesn’t make it admirable or useful.
It would help so much if, as a society, we could recognize mental disorders as the diseases they are. Sure, there are abusers and freeloaders, but that doesn’t negate the simple, pragmatic and humane reality that most folks with mental disorders are fine folks who want nothing more than to be useful and accepted members of society.
For those who take the draconian “lock 'em up” solution, cast your minds back to when Ronnie Reagan slashed funding for treatment centers, mental hospitals and halfway houses. There followed a boom of ill, desperate people spritzing windshields, talking to unseen people and wandering the steets.
IMO, the measure of society is how the most needy are treated. And that isn’t liberal or any other convenient label. What the hell ever happened to a sense of obligation to other people? If any party or political spinmeister could answer that I’d faint, revive and cheer.
I am sick and tired of greed and smallness wearing the cloak of conservatism. I’m sick and tired of liberalism replacing respect with pity. But mostly I’m sick and godamned tired of the stupid, inhuman, cruel and asinine belief that respect for others, poor, ill or down on their luck equals the convenient label du jour.
Can we get a fucking clue here? Any society that throws people away can expect no loyalty in return. IMO, anyone who isn’t strong enough, and willing, to help others isn’t worth a cup of warm spit. Strength, health and security carry obligations.
That isn’t a political statement in label ready format; it’s a human stance with no good political outlet.
Veb
::looking around to see who was advocating that society “throw people away”::
Get a grip. Contempt for the current backwards system of social welfare does not indicate moral ambivalence! Don’t you think the world would be a tad bit more cozy if we could use our excess dollars to actually help each other personally instead of having to fork them over to Uncle Sam to be processed and redistributed through cold, emotionless forms?
Honestly, which of these would you choose:
SCENARIO A: Uncle Sam shaves money from my earnings, figuring I’m rich enough that I don’t need it. Knowing this, I decide that he must know better than me how to help the poor and thus happily go about my business buying the next 30ft luxury SUV. Meanwhile, government welfare implodes, wasting billions of dollars on substandard services. Rainbow complains that the system is not working for him and demands that he be given the free food, housing, Internet access, etc. that he DESERVES. I sit complacent in the knowledge that Uncle Sam will handle such moral concerns and contemplate how to afford a second Lexus on my severely reduced post-tax earnings.
SCENARIO B: We get rid of government welfare programs and trust individual conscience to hold us afloat. Instead of writing letters to Congress, Rainbow talks to his local community, explains his hardships and asks politely if anyone might be able to help. His neighbors recognize his plight, respect his humility and lend a hand to stabilize his condition and get him back on his feet.
It’s the gap between giver and receiver that’s brought this chaos upon us! What’s so moral about dumping all these nasty problems into Washington’s lap and then looking the other way? I want to see a society where needy people ask politely and wealthy people give from their hearts.
If you think it takes a zealous IRS to make a human humane, then we may as well just go back to the jungle and be done with it.
I’m starting to get a big headache! Damn! All I wanted was to get to people who are disabled and down like me, and let them know that help is out there, but they have to fight for it and to let their congress-people know of their plight in trying to use a system which is A: hard to use, B: deliberately under funded, and C: being ignored in the funding so that money can be transferred to ‘feel good’ projects.
I am not unjustly DEMANDING anything except what is supposedly out there for me to use. I am demanding that the programs be reworked and updated so they can serve those they are intended to serve in the way they were intended to do.
What use is there in giving someone $495 a month (a percentage based on 1970s earnings) when their minimum requirement for surviving in an economic area is $800? For the same reason, why terminate a persons free medication benefits at $600 a month when they have to get at least $800 just to keep a roof over their heads?
Plus, with all of the government programs out there for all sorts of various things, why is it that the Social Services are always the most under funded and why MUST human life be considered AFTER building that new park in South Nowhere for $6 million?
I got news for you bub, charitable organizations do not have the funds to help one out steadily. Most people can go to them and get perhaps a couple of bills paid, maybe some good food, clothing and perhaps a prescription filled. They cannot depend on the same organizations every month. Even some of the major ones will only help you out once because the demand on their services is high.
In December, every year – ALL services run out of funds. INCLUDING the salvation army. It seems that December is the month for evicting people and most local homeless populations in the South swell tremendously as the poor flee here to hopefully not freeze to death in the northern snows.
EOC, which paid a power bill for me, started handing out help for rent and power in May. By October they were dry. Their next allotment would not arrive until May or June on the next year.
As for medical help, I may get the basics, but Medicare and Medicaid will not pay for organ transplants or major things like cancer treatments and surgery. As for dental help, Medicaid will pull ALL of your teeth and give you plates but will not take care of one abscessed tooth.
If you want a copy of my Senatorial letter, e-mail me and I’ll see if I can cram it into a text file and ship it to you. It goes into further detail. There is absolutely no reason for a person to die of an abscessed tooth here in America just because they do not have the funds to have it pulled. It took me so long to get the help I required, that I now have a small hole in the bones of my upper jaw, where the abscess erupted before I could get the tooth pulled.
Plus, why should the poor and disabled be treated like shit by those designated to help them? (Ever been to a State Mental Hospital? I visited one once on a tour when I was in medicine and it was bad then. THAT was before Carter cut the Mental Health Budget. It is worse now. How we treat our poor State patients and how we treat our insurance paying patients in private hospitals are as different as night and day.)
Did you know, that a convicted murderer, sentenced to life, is in a Prison Mental Hospital? He gets the best medication, 5 hours of therapy a day, 3 squares a day, has no bills, free health care, free clothing and some minor luxuries. He is sheltered from the elements. He will never be cured.
He is restricted in freedom, regulated in his daily schedule and I would not want to be where he is. BUT, the POINT is that he gets more than a lot of the poor disabled here in the States and HE KILLED PEOPLE! My mental health therapy is restricted to around 1 session a MONTH because of the costs. ($100 to $120 an hour). My medicine is denied me because of the cost but his is not. many of us go without food, power, or shelter and have not killed anyone but he gets it all.
I don’t know, but I have a problem when a convicted killer gets better treatment than most of us poor and disabled. Hell, I’ve heard of people doing minor crimes to get PUT IN JAIL so they can at least get some medical care, 3 squares, hot showers, clothing and a roof over their heads for a week or 60 days. (Unfortunately, due to prison over crowding and judges catching on, such people are usually dumped back on the streets with public service hours to deal with.)
In one section of the country a disabled person can make up to $2000 a month from various agencies. In another section they are lucky to get $900. I have known people to ‘ride the system’ by pretending to be disabled while secretly working another job and have even heard of those who use a couple of IDs to get more than one allotment!!
I am not one of them. I enjoyed working. I would like to work again. I don’t exactly like feeling like I do all of the time.
Go to any disabled board or website and read what goes on for yourself. Try the Disabled Hotline site. I did. People physically disabled are denied disability for stupid reasons or are given so little that they get tossed out of their homes with no place to go. Others are denied medical treatments or have to wait so long for something to be found to pay for their therapy that they die of the disease before anything is found.
By the way --** read SENTINEL’S encounter with the guy he tossed out again. The bastard was trying to find out how to get on disability when he was NOT disabled so he could make more money for drugs. I was pleased when I read that SENTINEL beat the shit out of him. I would have. Plus, In guess you missed the part where he pointed out that the bastard had taken advantage of his mentally slow friend. If that is unsympathetic, then I like it.**
By the way, you know LESCO’s book on government money and how to get it? ($29.95 for one version and $60+ for the other). I found out that most of the programs in it are for minorities, which lets me out. Several people I know have the book and wasted their money from what they told me.
Now, lastly, FREEDOM no I did not make a threat. Just an observation. My condition is curable. In fact, if I was still employed (had my boss allowed me to get therapy while still working instead of firing my ass and hiring in someone else at less pay), I would have been back to work in about a year or two. Take away my medication and therapy and I get ‘odd.’ No, not sexually perverted – one of the medication combinations triggered that little episode – but I could be up all night playing music, cutting the lawn, one day I might be pleasant to chat with and the next I might be harassing you or calling the cops on you for anything I perceive as a threat.
Stealing medication. Correct – from a person who willing gets them for me from his insurance company, which he pays monthly premiums on. HE gets a double dosage, BUT was stepped down to half and never had the prescription changed. So, he GIVES me what he does not need. ** I like how you tried to make it look like I was taking medication from someone else who needed it. You are a fucking shit.**
I guess a little truth distortion by you is OK, so long as it helps your cause. You know, I’ve talked to people who would prefer to sleep in the gutter than go to some homeless shelters because the shelters are often too violent. You can get knifed for your stinky sneakers or smokes because the shelters are so under funded that they cannot afford to put on adequate staff to watch for such things.
In the 1970s, when Carter cut the mental health funds, the State Institutions opened their doors and dumped thousands of sick patients who were not a danger to themselves or others onto the streets. There were no programs to care for them. No programs to make sure they even collected their disability checks, took their required pills or even found shelter. Many died of exposure, many grew sicker because no one was there to make sure they got and took the
This is NOT a hit at the OP, but the government needs to get its shit together regarding the definition of “disability”.
I lost a fucking leg (above knee) in an accident a few years ago. I tried for two years to get SSI. Turns out junkies and drunks have an easier chance. I finally got a letter that said “we think you qualify”. Maybe I will get back to them. I still work my ass off, and pay my fucking taxes. And no, I am not ragging on people with clinical depression, been there, but why does an able-bodied drug addict who says “I cant work” get more consideration than a fucking amputee? Fuck the government, i’d rather live under a fucking bridge than deal with that bullshit!
Klaatu, is that serious, JUNKIES get SSI or welfare? That is a self inflicted situation.
Pas grande chose.
John John…
It is true, I lived with one. All the while with his 2 packet a day habit, trying to kick and going to the methadone clinic everyday (repeat cycle) he was receiving gov’t health and $230/month in food stamps.
Junkies on disability and welfare? Unfortunately, it often happens. It’s termed an ‘addictive personality.’
When you apply for Disability, the government will send you to be examined by doctors they approve of. Then they will mull over your case for several months. 90% of all applicants will be automatically rejected because over 50% of those will not reapply again. If you apply again, to stand a better chance of getting disability though you may be quickly rejected ** unless you hire a disability lawyer**. The lawyer will examine your case and decide whether to take it or not. If he takes it, then you have something like a 90% chance of winning.
He will apply for disability for you and his fee is 1/4 of your back payments. (Now, right here we start to see a bit of a problem with the system. The larger your back payments are, the greater his share. Now I’m not saying that the lawyer would deliberately delay the case nor not push it as hard as possible to increase his percentage, but it seems likely.) This process can take nearly a year so if you do not have any funds to survive with, you need to get to Social Security and they will place you on SSI if they agree with your application. That will get you about $441 a month and activate Medicaid.
The lawyer can request a hardship ‘push’ to try to get your case looked at sooner for financial reasons but the Disability Board is usually flooded with applications. Once your case comes up, you go to court. You wait until the Social Security judge reaches your general area, then you and your lawyer go before him. (Don’t expect him/her to arrive at your city either. You will probably have to travel to another one within a 100 mile area to appear.) Your case will be presented in a small, private hearing – one on a list of many for that day. The judge will hear your case from your lawyer and yourself and then you go home. Within 30 days, you will find out if you won. Within 30 days of that, you will get your first check, which includes your back payments minus the lawyers cut.
(If you loose, you have the right to appeal but that takes time. Now, I don’t recall exactly how it works but I think if you appeal, you loose all accumulated back payments ‘owed’ to you. Your new back payments start accumulating from the time your appeal is registered. That decreases the amount the lawyer will get. Plus, by that time, most people have reached their financial limits and even if they do win, will be in terrible shape.)
The entire process can take up to or over a year. Disability will not accept your case if you are on unemployment or have a sizable bank account because you have to be destitute before you qualify. (I certainly was.) I can understand this logic from the governments point of view, BUT the problem is that if you have no financial recourse except SSI, by the time your case is approved – you have been evicted, dispossessed, lost your car, probably had things repossessed, probably hocked anything of value to pay the bills, and might have bill collectors steaming up your front door. Unless you have friends or family help you out some.
If you win, they will give you your back payments in a lump sum. This can total a little over $8,000. You might be owed quite a bit more, but there are reasons why they might not give it all to you. It happened to me and I still do not know the reasons. I got $8,000 after the lawyers fees were removed automatically.
By then, most of that money will probably be headed for bills and back rent. You have 90 days to dispose of it. You may not save it to pay future expenses with. Social Security will keep a watch on your bank accounts. Your future payments will be held up until your accounts drop below $1,000. (Well, I suppose you could poke it in your sock drawer to hold on to it.)
Your payments will be based on the highest amount of income you made in your working life, averaged out. Mine came to $801 a month. I think the greatest amount stops at $1200. Medicare will become active.
The whole process is very lengthy and frustrating. If they even think you can work in some way or another, you will be rejected. (That’s why the previous poster who lost a leg was not accepted. One legged people can hold jobs.)
The program is designed not to enable you to make a ‘good’ living off of it, but to survive and get some medical help. SSI will stop as soon as you get Disability. If you want to make money while sitting on your ass, disability is not the way to go. Most such people are on Workman’s Compensation, which pays greater sums. If you were not provably injured on the job, you cannot get Workman’s Compensation. (I did not even consider it because I knew my mental depression had been with me in a much milder form for years. Plus, even though I blame my last boss for heavily contributing to the worsening state of my mental health, it would have been damn hard to prove and could have dragged on in court for years.)
I was examined by two psychologists prior to being accepted for disability, to cut down on my chances of ‘faking it.’ Plus, when I enrolled in mental health, the report of the chief psychiatrist was added to the reports. Even now, Disability gets reports on my progress from the Mental Health clinic and when I improve to the extent that I can work again, they will terminate my benefits.
Since becoming disabled I have been examined by 8 professionals. I think if I were faking it, I would have been discovered by now. As it stands, I did hide the symptoms of my Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, not wanting to be told that I was insane - nuts - crackers - bonkers - ‘over the edge’ - cuckoo and things like that, plus being embarrassed by it, and the doctors picked up on it anyhow.
After going through all of the mess for a couple of years, if I sound like I demand help, then please excuse me. It gets real frustrating. Ever tried to read one of those big Medicaid books and actually understand it? Especially if you are like me and find it hard to concentrate on some things.
Then I discovered the plight of the poor and disabled, plus the complex, often inefficient mess one has to go through to get help along with the delays, the rejections and how the general public perceives you. Anyone who says that minorities do not get favored in these programs is nuts. Along with affirmative action, it seems so much easier for minorities to get major benefits. (Prior to becoming disabled, I figured that was a bunch of crap also. Not any more.)
Plus, I was appalled at the virtual destruction of the mental health services due to funding cuts and astonished to discover just how many of the homeless are mentally disabled and even more astonished to discover that no one seemed to give a shit.
So, you have my rants and my badgering congress.
Now, there are hundreds of beneficial programs out there which are for the normal, working people that contribute to their health, safety and well being as well as their finances, all paid for by the government, which gets the funds from everyone’s taxes. No one bitches about them nor complains about their cost.
No one gripes about the Department of Food and Drugs making sure you are not poisoned. No one objects to the Department of Highway Safety making sure your roads and vehicles are safe and not designed to kill you. Few have any problems with the thousands of government grants and loans available for education. Few complain about getting Social Security at 65. Few complain about the Consumer Safety programs. No one gripes about the government programs designed to keep your bank from ripping you off more than they do now, or keeping major businesses from controlling the cost everything you need, to their benefit. No one gripes about the government programs designed to make sure your insurance carrier doesn’t stiff you.
Many gripe, bitch, moan, howl, rage, and become infuriated about the Social Service programs helping out the poor and disabled, however.
I don’t think there is any excuse for close to 40 million A
Sake Samurai, read these two articles from the Encyclopedia Britannica:
www.britannica.com/bcom/magazine/article/0,5744,59505,00.html * This one is about altruism and war, why a man would be willing to risk his life in combat for someone he is not even related to. *December, 1998 Discover
www.britannica.com/bcom/magazine/article/0,5744,31621,00.html * This one is about altruism and families, why and how communities get together to help one another raise children and help the sick and injured, even when the person in question is not related. *October, 1997 Discover
In both articles the two writers make note that altruism, at first glance, seem to violate Darwinian philosophy of evolution, but after careful observation of both human and animal families, it actually supports the Darwinian philosophy. Helping members of the tribe to survive is good for the whole, because it means there are more individuals able to pass on their genetic traits to their offspring.
Both articles are very long. Give yourself a half-hour to get through both, unless you’re a speed-reader.
I need to read more about American Indian tribes’ social structures to comment on your other claim. But it seems difficult for me to believe that they did not share what was killed or gathered or harvested. And I’d be surprised if those who refused to share were still allowed to remain in the tribe.
Yeah, I think it’s correct to make an analogy between sharing the fruits of your labor with strangers and paying taxes.
>< DARWIN >
__L___L
Sorry to be responding so late, but Rainbow said:
It’s likely that they run out of money because few people feel like they have money left over to give after the government takes 40%. Reduce the tax burden and much of that money might find its way into these underfunded charities.
jab1 points out above that humans have a natural instinct for altruism. Is it so far-fetched to imagine that they can support each other without all the government bureaucracy?