Diablo II Degenerate

A really good strategy I’ve found with Paladins is to boost up Thorns to about level 6-7 as soon as you can get them, and then get a Zeal increasing weapon. That’ll make you a walking death machine. The only thing that’ll give you any trouble is long range and spell casters, but since they’re generally weak, you shouldn’t have any trouble.

As to Horadric Cube formulas…

I only have one good one, 3 rings turns into 1 random amulet, and vice versa, so if you have a ton of gold, just keep those extra rings and amus around. (Thanks go to Blizzard’s website for that one)

Oh, and I got a particularly good Amazon amulet with my Paladin. (Life Replenish +3, +1 to all Amazon skills) Anyone got something a Paladin could use and would be willing to trade?

Soulsling has the right of it. Iron Maiden is a beautiful skill, and I am improving it constantly. I have a level 17 necromancer, and his iron maiden skill is 6. Whacking Anduriel was pretty easy, if you can believe that. I just pumped up on antidotes and potions of healing, and she did all the work for me. Nothing is better than turning on iron maiden, letting the enemies kill themselves on you, and then blowing the lot of them up with Corpse Explosion.

Minions are great and all, but you’re right: they don’t help much with the real badasses. That’s why I haven’t even taken Skeleton Mages. They are fun to watch, but they can be real pussies. Just about all my points have gone to Corpse Explosion and Iron Maiden, and I am throttling serious ass.

Next level and I’ll be able to summon the Blood Golem. Hehe.

MR

One thought I had re: Necromancers is to go the ‘combat’ route, rather than the ‘minion’ route. Basically, give the guy a good dagger, go primarily for the poison and bone stuff, with a few curses thrown in, and go make like a Paladin (curses are effectively reverse Auras). I know the poison dagger skill does some pretty obnoxious poison damage (at 4th level, it starts doing more poison damage than any weapon I’ve seen, and you get an attack bonus to boot). In Nightmare mode, you can find poignards, which are dagger-class weapons that do more damage than many swords. Poison nova and Poison Explosion can also be pretty icky. Further, you can take the otherwise useless Bone Wall and Bone Prison spells (since your minions won’t be knocking them down).

Of course, for minions, he could always just focus on the Golems, and skip the skeleton stuff.

My Necro is 27th level. The Combat route really isn’t that bad. Due to some bad planning, he is really fairly weak, but does make a decent fighter. He basically casts a few skelleton mages and a weak ass golem, then runs into battle with a big ass two handed ass until he kills something explodes the corpse, swings some more, explodes some more, and so on. It works fairly well, except for the bosses. Duriel, Mephisto, and Diablo are just something you cant deal with , so I finally just had to use the most pathetic method imaginable. Run down, throw as many bone spears as posible, die, run back down, bone spear, die. Takes about 27 deaths, but I finally killed then. To be perfectly honest I can’t really think of a way to design a good necro for the bosses.

The only viable boss strategy I’ve found for necros has already been mentioned–Iron Maiden them to death. I took out Andariel 15 minutes after I got Iron Maiden (as soon as it was available). I let my minions kill her minions before opening the door, then kept IM on her while summoning my pansy dies-on-the-first-hit clay golem over and over. Oh yeah, and running away and drinking mana potions. I had a portal ready, but I never used it.

I haven’t tackled Duriel yet–not much time to play. We’ll see.

MPS I must share.

I’m ambling through again with a new Palidan. I took the advice of this board and spent extra time doing the Arcane Sanctuary to try and collect good stuff. I saved topazes and improved them at the rare gem shrines, then loaded two good topazes into a skull cap, which gave me “31% better chance at finding Magic Items”. Of course right after I loaded them into a defense of 4 skull cap I found a socketed defense of 24 helm, but that’s the way the cookie crumbles. Anyway, with the skull cap and “Chain Gloves of Fortune” (31% improved chance of magic items) and “Chain Boots of Fortune” (21% improved chance of magic items) both defense level 8, I’ve been trying for really good stuff in the Sanctuary. Nothing truly wonderful yet but I’m rich.

The poor defense of these items I counterbalance with my “Plate Mail of the Jackal” - defense 109. I was using a nice 1-15 flail with freeze damage and sometimes the fancy staff, but I have settled on the “Massive Broadsword of Gore”, fast attack speed, 13-33 damage. As Conan the Barbarian once said “there’s nothing in this world that cold steel won’t cut.”

My Palidan is level 21, Strength 65, Dexterity 60, Vitality 42, Energy 15. I haven’t put any points into mana and I have 3 points in reserve. I also have 6 skill points in reserve; I can’t decide what route to go. I followed the advice of this board and made Thorns level 3 but I never use it anymore. So - Might level 2, Thorns level 3, Blessed Aim level 3, Prayer level 1, Defiance level 3, Resist Fire, Cold, Lightning, and Cleansing all level 1. On the advice of my fellow Dopers I’m going to have to branch out soon and activate Zeal and/or Concentration, Blessed Hammer, Focus, Stamina. Who knows?

The Palidan must be the fastest way through the game. I’ll run through mazes and leap into a crowd of baddies, hot-keying between auras and guzzling potions. My super sword with the right aura gets me through. In the Arcane Sanctuary I have to flee to string 'em out, then come back and cut through the ghosts and goats, saving the fire throwing skullheads for last. With my sword and with Might keyed most goat clan types fall to one chop. With ghosts I switch to Blessed Aim so I don’t miss as much.

I really respect those of you who go through with necros etc. Is it slow going? Do you have to constantly retreat and maneouver? Apparently you get killed a lot. I don’t have the patience but I guess I’ll have to try.

I encountered an Experience Shrine outside the monastery in Act I (This’ll give you 50% more experience points for kills while in effect). I ran around a bit to collect a large following of baddies from the field, hit the shrine, then fought baddies non-stop. When I’d cleaned out the field I ran into the monastery and chased and killed baddies non-stop, no stopping for coins or anything. By the time the shrine wore off I’d gone up more than half an experience level.

Great game, but after the first time through I’ve chilled a little - I’m riding my bicycles, going downtown to do a little work, giving my wife some attention (we baked chocolate chip cookies together last night). I doubt I play more than 4-5 hours a day now.

Why is this such a great game? I think it’s a gendre that has been constantly improved, from the original “Legend of Zelda” through the Final Fantasies, with countless variations. It appeals to our acquisitiveness - you never know what wonderful weapon/amulet/ring/unique item you’ll find next. Don’t ignore that staff on the ground. Identify it and take it to town and sell it; it might be worth 16,000 gold. The fighting in Diablo II is also diabolic. Turn your back on some monsters or bring up your inventory screen when there’s monsters around. They see you are distracted and rush in for the kill. If you start to weaken in a fight they seem to press in harder. No matter how well you are doing if you slack off a bit or get tired or careless, WHAM, you’re dead. Just like real life!

I have a question:

Who has the lowest level character to actually defeat Diablo? Multiplayer or single player, normal, nightmare or hell?

Me and a buddy did it last night on Normal level-

Me: 26th level Sorceress
Him: 27th level Necromancer

Monster104, that was too funny. I thought you were just joking.
I got Cleglaws(sp?) Fang, nice sword, handy for my necro, now I can actually destroy beasts in just a couple swings. Between IronMaiden, they kill themselves, and my new sword, it does 50% Deadly Strike, +some nice % of extra attack rating… I like.

Al,

The necromancer is by far my favorite class. There is so much flexibility and there are many different tactical options you can pursue. I didn’t even have much trouble in the beginning. I took Teeth as my first skill point, as I wasn’t going to be caught dead without a ranged attack in the beginning of the game. Playing a necro does require some running back and forth, but I die rather rarely. I shagged Amplify Damage at 2nd level, a fairly useful curse, because it is a prerequisite to Iron Maiden, and there wasn’t anything else worth spending points on at the time. I also sent in my skeleton, granted by my initial weapon, to do most of the dirty work for me. Make sure you take a point in Raise Skeleton anyway, as it is a prerequisite for every other summoning spell.

If you want to play a necromancer, you have to make a few decisions early on. First, are you going to use Revives? If so, then you had better be prepared to pump a good 6-10 skill points into Skeletons, Skeleton mages, and especially Skeleton Mastery. This rather holds you back: you only get Revive at 30th level, and spending so many points on weak skeletons can make the game difficult. So if you want to delay your gratification in pursuit of raising the most kickass minions the world has ever seen, then go for it. But that’s not the route I went.

Instead my necro picked up Corpse Explosion at 6th level and the Clay Golem at 7th. I ran him around using Amplify Damage and let the Clay Golem do most of the work. I didn’t pump a single point into my Clay Golem, as I knew I was going to replace him as soon as I got the chance. So I spent every point I had from level 7 to level 12 on Corpse Explosion. Meanwhile NeoCount had racked up some fine armor (Viridian Scale with Enhanced Defense) and was using the imbued Wirt’s Leg, so he was doing some serious damage in melee.

But the magic really began when NeoCount hit 12th, and was able to learn Iron Maiden. I spent every skill point from 12th to 18th on improving that curse of curses. I would shroud him and the golem in it, wander into battle until 1 creature died, and after three clicks of Corpse Explosion, I could clear a room teeming with monsters. Just last night he made 18th level, and snagged himself the Blood Golem. The damn thing never dies, it moves quickly, and does decent damage. Since then I’ve added two points to Golem Mastery, and am eagerly awaiting my next Golem upgrade at 24th level.

Bottom line, this character kicks ass. Nothing whatsoever gives him pause. He can run into the middle of a room full of tough monsters and decimate them in two seconds flat. The only thing that mildly troubles me is missile attacks, because they are unaffected by Iron Maiden. But Necromancers have a weapon in their arsenal to deal with ranged combat: Dim Vision. I am definitely going to pick that one up soon.

Here are NeoCount’s stats:
Strength: 62 (gotta be able to wear that heavy armor)
Dexterity: 28 (pretty unimportant, raised only by an item)
Vitality: 16 (I never even touched it, and I didn’t need to)
Energy: I forgot, but it’s definitely around 80.

If Diablo II only came with the necromancer class, I would still be happy.

MR

I’ve just started playing Diablo II and will probably join in a B-Net game when time allows. Since I also like having minions, my single-player is a Necromancer named Welker (after Frank Welker, who voiced the Necromancer and others in Baldur’s Gate).

wolfman- I in no way mean to malign you, but your malapropism of “then runs into battle with a big ass two handed ass” has me nearly hysterical with the imagery.

As for finding magic items:

I believe (from my observations of the game) that what happens is this-

When a dungeon is first created, it is ‘seeded’ with chests and barrels and such. These chests and barrels have an internal number attached to them based upon type- that is, ‘glowing’ chests have a high number, regular chests a normal number, and barrels and the like a low number- and then an additional random.

When you open one of these chests or such, a random number is generated, modified by the chest modifier and by any ‘find magic’ bonuses your character has. This number is checked on a chart to determine whether a magic item is found, and if so, what type. The chart is a sliding scale, which means that if the number rolled is just barely in the ‘magic’ scale, you get a weak magic item; if the roll plus modifiers is very high, you get a rare, unique, or set item.

I base this upon a few things.

First, with major ‘find magic’ bonuses, I found a lot more magic items, but most of them were crappy- but when I ran into a ‘guaranteed’ magic item source (Named monster, glowing chest), the item tended to be much better than what other (non ‘find magic’ bonused) characters found.

Second, I’ve run a couple of times into the “Chest of Giving” (which sounds like a description of my favorite porn stars, but I digress). For example- one time I created a Barbarian, and in running through the first area (Blood Moor? Whatever. First place outside camp), I found a small house with a chest in it. Open the chest- Set Item Death’s Guard (Sash with massive defensive properties). Later on, after having saved and re-started, run through the area again, open the chest, Bing!- Rare Short Bow.
So the upshot? If you open a chest and find a really good magic item, chances are that if you pass through the area again after a save and reload that opening the chest again will produce another really good magic item. The seed placed when the level was created was abnormally high; as the level isn’t re-created no matter how many times you save and reload, you’ve still got a massive seed to make it easier to get nice items. That’s why the Ancient Sanctuary was likely so good to my current Barbarian- it had good seeds for the glowing chests, and thus always sprung rare or set items (not that many of the rare items were ones I could use, but still). So keep track of where you find kick-ass items, and take the time to go through it over and over again. At the worst, you’ll end up with a lot of cash, and you can use that cash to Gamble.

A couple questions now of my own for those who have finished the game and continued on to higher difficulties.

1.) Do you keep your items when you progress to the next difficulty, or do they all disappear and you get to start again?
2.) Do the earlier blacksmiths still sell crappy weapons and armor, or do they get upgraded to weapons more on a par with your character’s level and equipment? That is, once I restart, will Charsi keep trying to sell me Short Swords and Leather Armor, or will she have War Swords and Gothic Plate?
3.) Regarding the Cow Level- you do this after you finish the game, once per difficulty level (yeah, I’ve got the patch). When do you do this? Do you have time after killing Diablo to wander around and find the Cow Level? Or do you advance into the next difficulty level and do it early on (after picking up Wirt’s Leg in Tristram)? If I save and exit after killing Diablo, can I go back to that same game and try the Cow Level, or will it automatically make me start a new game (since Diablo’s dead)?

I have a question that I’ve seen on http://www.diabloii.net

What does everyone think about the necro’s abilities? Too powerful? I’m sure a lot of you are familiar with the controversy that’s been escalating about Corpse Explosion (CE) and the Iron Maiden/Blood Golem combo (IM/BG).

The argument goes that because CE has a radius that increases and increases as you pump points into it, up to the point where it covers the whole screen, its too powerful - dealing out 60-100% of the corpse’s previous hit points. It goes up to 120-200% when you put Amplify Damage on. A lot of people think this should be “nerfed” (I believe this means to soften the effects down).

The other controversy about the necro that I mentioned is the IM/BG combo. Because the Blood Golem has a blood link with the necro, when IM is turned on, when ever it gets hit, the enemy takes damage. And when the BG gives damage, both it and you receive life back. Therefore, you basically create an indestructible golem, as well as a source of life for your necro.

The D2 forums have devolved into shouting matches over this, and I imagine us dopers can be a bit more realistic in our discussion. Again, this was not intended to incite or instigate, but to see what everyone thinks.

Like I said above, that’s my combo of choice. I don’t understand why people are so enflamed over it. If they don’t like it, they shouldn’t fucking use it. It is that simple. I don’t think it is too powerful, speaking from experience. It’s just effective. I suppose some people have to get their balls tied in a knot over something, so they make a fuss about a game. Well, if they nerf it, I’ll be damned if I download another patch.

MR

Didn’t the stress test and beta only include the barbarian? If so, do we know if Blizzard was aware of how effective that combo really is?

Also, another question. If you don’t download another patch, will you still be able to play on battle.net?

Nope. But I have no internet connection at home, and can hardly find the time to play over battlenet at work. The few times that I have been able to log on, I have played a sorceress, anyway. So I suppose it really doesn’t matter, since I am not going to download any nerfed patches onto my home computer.

MR

Indestructible? Hardly. The blood golem starts out converting 31% of damage done to life. At level 20 (the nominal max for any skill), it is converting only 38%. In short, it’s never gaining as much in life as the damage it is doing, even with Iron Maiden. Blizzard has even mentioned that this makes a good combo, so surely they know it’s not all-powerful. This also only works with melee attacks, which don’t tend to do major damage. The creatures who do big damage do it with spells, and the BG/IM combo does nothing for you then.

Besides, my Blood Golem has died horribly any number of times, despite the Iron Maiden on the monsters that were beating up on it. Certainly not indestructible…

You keep them.

The basic items are roughly the same stuff, but they may have better abilities. The potion sellers only sell Greater or better Healing Potions; you don’t have to slog your way through with nly Minor Healing Potions :slight_smile: Also, the Wand / Scepter / Staff sellers sell better stuff.

You can do this any time after killin Big D. The game ‘ends’ after the alloted time, but next time you restart, you are standing in the Pandemonium Fortress. You simply hop the Waypoint back to Tristam, and go from there. Remember to start the game in ‘Normal’ difficulty though.

This one may well be nasty enough, but I certainly wouldn’t rely on it. When you get to the end-of-act baddies, you’re not going to have a lot of corpses to work with (you get nothing against Duriel, for example - it’s just you, him, and whomever you take with you; kind of like a cage-match…only one of you gets to walk out alive :smiley: - and necromantic minions tend to die pretty darn quickly around him). So, you may be able to kick butt with the plebes, but the Bosses will eat you for lunch.

That’s what I seem to gather. I can’t wait to get the game.

In other news, what does everyone think about Diablo II’s first “King” bestowal? Someone in Belgium beat Hell/Hell on hardcore with a necro. When do you think someone will be the first “Queen”? Is it possible to go through hardcore with a sorceress or an amazon? And which would work best, a sorc, bowazon, javazon, or jabazon?

From what I’ve read, a good jabazon is very warrior-like. Dunno.

Bump - Level 24 Sorc when I beat Big D.

As far as the “King”, think about this - he did it as a necro, and never died once. Imagine taking on duriel on the hell skill level… I say hot damn, sir.