My friend Terrance was engaged to a girl (they dated for about a month before he proposed) and they were only engaged for 1 week and she broke it off. She didn’t even tell him in person, she told one of their mutual friends and that friend told Terry. He asked her to send the ring back to him (she lives in Florida and he lives in Kansas) and she said that she would but never has. He e-mailed her last Friday and asked her about mailing the ring back and her reply was a page with Fuck You written all over it. He is unsure as to whether or not he should even get the ring back. He says that it was a “gift” to her and that since he gave it to her, she should keep it. I say that he should get it back because that ring was a symbol of her promise to marry him and she didn’t keep that promise. I’m pretty sure that there was a court ruling on a similiar case that said that the woman “had” to give that ring back because of what I said about her not keeping her promise to marry him.
If it turns out that she got rid of the ring or she refuses to give it back can he take her to small claims court of something and get reimbursed for the cost of the ring?? And who do you think should get the ring… him or her? What would you do if it were you?
According to tradition, if she breaks it off she must return the ring, but if he does, then she can keep it. In this case, she should return the ring.
[I am not a lawyer]
You can probably sue, but being in two different states, you will most likely have to do it in Florida. You can get the ring back in small claims court (or the monatary value).
[/I am not a lawyer]
If the ring wasn’t that expensive I would write it off as a loss, but if it did cost some cash, the I would persue it.
He should get the ring back and, if I were her, I’d give it back. In fact, before I married my husband, I was engaged to someone else and I gave the ring back. I certainly didn’t want to keep something that was a symbol of a really bad (almost) mistake in my life.
If I were your friend, though, I might be tempted to walk away from this one. Did he spend thousands of dollars on it or was it something fairly inexpensive? It could cost more to get it back than it’s really worth (having to go to another state, court costs, etc.). If it were me, I’d count myself happy that I didn’t marry the loser chick and try to forget the whole situation.
generally, I’d say gift in contemplation of marriage, marriage didn’t happen, she broke it off, she should give ring back. Now, if this is legally enforcable? shrug.
(you didn’t ask, but I think an ‘engagement’ after such short notice should have been marked by a paper cigar wrapper vs. a diamond, but I digress).
And, frankly, if the ring is a family heirloom, I don’t care who broke it off etc, the ring should stay with the family (so says the jewelers’ daughter - by the way, I got both the rings back when I got divorced)
Since she broke it off, it is traditional to give the ring back.
I say, take her to small claims court, and best of luck to him. But with her in Florida and him in Kansas, the cost and aggravation would outweigh the value of the ring.
[quote]
If it were me, I’d count myself happy that I didn’t marry the loser chick and try to forget the whole situation
Well before I got engaged I beleived that a woman should keep the ring. Especially if HE broke off the engagement. Then My husband and I bought the engagment ring for me way before he proposed. I made sure he understood that if he decided or I decided that our relationship wasn’t going to work out, that he would keep the ring. Most jewlery stores have a trade in policy so he could get a different one for the girl he chose. Luckily the bitch married me.
But after only a few weeks, she doesn’t even have a right to those rings…
She should definitely give the ring back. It’s the decent thing to do.
According to my sister (who, incidentally, is a high school senior and definitely not a lawyer), if he gave the ring on a holiday or birthday, it counts as a gift and the girl gets to keep it no matter what. If he gave it on just a regular day, he gets the ring back. That sounds off to me, and I’m not sure where darling Sister Serendipity heard that, but I thought I’d throw it out there for discussion.
How great - this is a classic law question! Even on our bar exam materials.
Yup, she has to return the ring.
The ring was given and accepted in consideration of marriage…I’ll muck up the language here because I’m running out the door as I type this.
Suffice to say that she has to return it (common law says so, anyway). My suggestion: Tell him to get an attorney to write a simple yet formal letter to her explaining the law and demanding the return of the ring. That will probably scare her into returning it - or, if she’s hawked it, the retail value of the ring.
Well I’m NOT a lawyer, but a quick google search suggests that the above is not a complete answer.
see http://www.mycounsel.com/content/refunds/questions/ring.html
"Must I Return An Engagement Ring If There Is No Prenuptial Agreement?
Whether you have to return a wedding ring if the wedding is called off depends on where you live and under what circumstances the ring came into your possession. It may also depend on who broke the engagement. In the convoluted world of domestic relations, perhaps nothing is more confusing than the so-called “heart balm” statutes that were made the law in each of the various states, and then abolished more than a half century ago to be replaced with a hodgepodge of custom and modernity.
For the past 30 years, at least in New York, persons not under any impediment to marry have had the right to recover property given in contemplation of a marriage that didn’t occur.
But just across the river from New York City, the courts of New Jersey have long called the gift of an engagement ring “implied conditional,” and require its return on the breaking of the engagement by the recipient of the gift. However, if the man breaks the engagement, he cannot obtain the ring, "
Morally, ethically and possibly legally depending on your jurisdiction, the right thing to do would be for the girl to give the ring back. This is, of course, unlikely to happen and he will need to pursue it legally in order to get it back.
In real world terms, however, I think your friend should lose possession of the ring as a somewhat expensive, hard knocks life lesson for behaving like a complete numbskull and making a proposal of marriage 30 days into a relationship. He is probably quite embarrased at his temporary insanity and would just like the problem to go away. No matter that the ring cost it is less than a prospective divorce in a contentious relationship.
He dodged a bullet aimed straight at this heart and should count his blessings and move on.
Um, according to both of these, she has to give back the ring, since she broke the engagement. The difference is that in New Jersey, she doesn’t have to give it back when he breaks it off.
“If it turns out that she got rid of the ring or she refuses to give it back can he take her to small
claims court of something”
Yeah, that do that kind of case on Judge Judy, Brown, Jerry hundreds of times a year & the guy gets the ring or the money back.
Um, according to both of these, she has to give back the ring, since she broke the engagement. The difference is that in New Jersey, she doesn’t have to give it back when he breaks it off. **
[/QUOTE]
Your right of course with these example…the main point I was trying to make is that this is a jurisdictional thing, it would appear that there are some jurisdictions where a ring return is not legally mandated…even if the gal broke it off…
As far as correct etiquette, it doesn’t matter who broke the engagement - when the wedding’s off, she should return the ring. (Its more of a question of whether she should hand it back murmuring how wonderful of a person he is, and how sorry she is that it didn’t work out - or whether she should rip it off her finger and throw it back in his face because she no longer wants to have anything to do with someone who doesn’t want to marry her.)
Legally, it depends on jurisdiction, but the ring is probably his, he can probably sue.
As to the final question - how important is the ring to him, really? Was it four months’ salary? Was it handed down from generation to generation in his family? If it is really important to him - then of course, he should do something about it… but it doesn’t sound like he cares that much. And chasing after her & the ring in Florida, from Kansas is probably more trouble than it sounds like he feels it’s worth.
Personal opinion? If you give someone something, it belongs to them.
If the ring were a family heirloom, though, with deep sentimental value, you should get it back. If you just shelled out a couple of bills for it, just consider it an expensive life lesson, and move on.
Here’s the situation: Terrance has known Lisa for about 7 years. They never dated or slept together until last October. She was here for about 10 days visiting her family and she stayed with Terrance and they had sex etc., etc. A few days later Lisa starts talking about marriage and they start talking about Terrance moving down to Florida with her. Well, Terrance is ecstatic because he’s been divorced for awhile and he’s been wanting to settle down with a woman and maybe have a couple more kids so he’s ready to get married again. I thought it was great.
Lisa goes back to Florida and Terrance makes arrangements to fly there for Thanksgiving. They talk on the phone every night and are still talking about getting married. This is about 2 weeks after they first hooked up.
Terrance took out a loan and he’s going to pick out an engagement ring for Lisa. She’s already told him her ring size and that she wants a 1/2 carat solitaire. (I thought it was pretty nervy of her to tell him how many carats she wants it to be!) We go to the jewelry store and start looking. He ends up picking out a 1/2 carat solitaire for about $1,200 and is going to propose when he flys to Florida for Thanksgiving. Great, right?
Well, he proposes, she says yes, and they start making plans. They have the date picked out, they want my daughter to be a flower girl, Lisa knows what colors she wants, etc.
So Terrance flys back home and he and Lisa keep talking each night. She’s kind of acting like she has cold feet and is worried that she won’t be able to do everything she wants to do after they get married. So about a week later he talks to a mutual friend of his and Lisa’s and this friend tells him that Lisa told her that she doesn’t want to marry him anymore. She was supposed to come here for Christmas so when he talks to her again he tells her that if she wants to get married to get a one way ticket here and he will drive down to Florida with her when her stay is up and will move in with her. If she doesn’t want to get married he said to buy a round trip ticket and she can go home by herself when her stay is up. I don’t think she even came back for Christmas because I don’t remember him saying anything about it.
Terrance is pretty upset (naturally) when he tells me that Lisa broke off the engagement and I feel really bad for him. He was pretty heartbroken.
Well, I told him that he needs to talk to Lisa and get his ring back from her. He eventually did talk to her and asked her to send it back to him and she said she would. Well, that was about a month ago and he still hasn’t gotten it back. And I already mentioned his e-mail and her Fuck You reply. A couple of their mutual friends have spoken with Terrance and they don’t think she has the ring anymore. We heard that she’s been engaged before and she did the same thing as far as not being engaged very long and keeping the ring and never speaking to the guy again so this isn’t the first time she’s done this.
I think that for $1,200 I’d be going to small claims court to either get the ring back or get money back for it. That’s too much money to just let it go. That and the fact that they were only engaged for about a week! She is also in the Navy so maybe the military would be able to do something to make this right.
Interesting story. I hope he gets some resolution.
My friend became engaged to a wonderful girl who was somewhat well-off. He wanted to get a ring worthy of her, so they found a gorgeous estate ring that was in the multiple carats and because it was estate, was not only a great design but also cheaper than it would be new. Around $10,000, I think, what a bargain. His parents (of more modest means, although certainly comfortable) helped him buy it with the understanding that this was like an early inheritance for him–this means he would be getting less later in life.
Well, he meets someone else, falls in love, and doesn’t have the cajones to tell her (or any of us) until a few weeks before the wedding. We’ve all got plane tickets, and I’ve already sent the gift. I’m out $150 for the cancellation fee for changing our tickets. Plus shipping on the gift (which did get sent back, luckily).
He has no idea what she has done with the ring–it’s hers to keep, of course. I am sure she takes no pleasure in it and wonder if she’s sold it. As much as love my friend, I’m still peeved about the late notice and my ticket loss, so occasionally I remind myself (with no small pleasure) that this goof cost him $10,000. And I hope she bought something very fabulous with the cash if she sold it.
(P.S. he is engaged again. He wishes he had $1 for every time he’s heard “Congratulations! We’ll be waiting on buying the plane tickets, you understand.”)
A few days later Lisa starts talking about marriage and they start talking about Terrance moving down to Florida with her. Well, Terrance is ecstatic because he’s been divorced for awhile and he’s been wanting to settle down with a woman and maybe have a couple more kids so he’s ready to get married again. I thought it was great.