I have a nephew whose engagement with his fiancee is off (Thank God–he’s a bum, and she’s too good for him). Basically, he was a very naughty boy when she was visting her mother, and she found out about it. (Well, that and the fact that he’s perfectly content to be supported by his grandmother and has no interest in contributing toward bill payment.)
So, now, the ring. IANAL, but since it’s a gift, I don’t see how she has any legal reason to part with it.
But “morally. . .”
One way to look at it is “She’s breaking off the engagement–she should give it back.”
Another way is, “She’s breaking off the engagement because he broke ‘the deal’ by cheating, and so she has no moral obligation to part with it.”
I tend to lean toward the latter attitude, and for my nephew to learn a lesson: If situations had been a little different, he could be losing the house instead of just a ring.
An engagement ring is more than a “gift,” to my way of thinking. Its a material symbol of your intentions. She is under no obligation, legal or moral, to give it back, but since your nephew has acted like such a cad I can’t imagine that she’d want to keep it. If I were her, I’d give it back to him, without comment any extra commentary other than “I can’t accept this.” End of discussion, end of relationship.
I’ve seen this debate before in Ann Landers (shush) and I still cannot, for the life of me, see why either would WANT to keep the ring in a scenario like this. Unless they’d want to sell it.
shrugs I personally think she should give it back, but if she wants revenge, then…
IMHO - this is how polite people should act:
The fiancee should offer to return it, and the fiance should graciously say “It was a gift to you, please keep it.”
If the two parties now dislike each other, then the equitable solution would be -
the person who broke the engagement forfeits the ring.
I think the selling is assumed. I mean, what else would you do with it?
I think that in the case you describe the girl has no moral obligation to return the thing: had they simply grown apart, the honorable thing to do would be to return it, but that isn’t the case here.
It is especially appropriate to sell the ring if you or your family have spent any money on wedding preperations.
The only exception I can think of would be in the case of family heirlooms, in which case the ring ought to be returned to the guy’s mother or something, to be passed down through more worthy decendents.
Being angry at your ex-fiance for not returning the ring after you cheated on her seems like a case of shifting the blame to me. Now he can think of her as a selfish bitch who deserved to be cheated on.
An engagement ring is most decidely not a gift and the tendency of some young ladies to turn it into one after the engagement has gone south speaks of bad trailer trash manners, poor character and greed. An engagement ring is symbolic of a promise to wed.
If that promise cannot be fullfilled the appropriate thing to do is to return the ring. If this is about a notion of “punishment” of a mis-behaving fiancee and the girl keeps the ring should a boy have license to take a baseball bat and smash the windows of her car or steal her purse to exact his monetary retribution is she mis-behaves and the engagement is broken by her actions?
I don’t have a cite for it at my fingertips but IIRC I think this issue has been tested legally and the determination has consistently been that it is not a gift unless originally given under different circumstances than the expression of an expectation of marriage being in the offing.
Different states have different laws, and sometimes they change. On the People’s Court a few months ago, the judge noted that the law in the court’s state (which wasn’t named) had changed since he had gone to law school, and an engagement ring was now considered a “conditional gift”, which had to be returned if the engagement was broken.
While it may not have risen to the dignity and persuasiveness of The Peoples Court, as seen on TV, the state supreme court in my state has held that absent some special circumstance, an engagement ring is at best a conditional gift. If the engagement is broken the giver may sue to get it back and will receive a judgment for the county sheriff to go get it and deliver the ring back to the giver, or for the ring’s value if the sheriff can’t find it.
If the ring is family heirloom, or has some special sentimental value(meaning it wasn’t purchased for this particualr occasion), it should be returned. Otherwise, IMHO, when you give someone something it belongs to them and they can do whatever the heck they please with it.
So far as the etiquette angle, she gives it back. No matter what happened, who broke up with who, the reasons for the breakup, the ring gets returned.
(Judith Martin, Miss Manners on Weddings, pg. 193. Judith Martin, Miss Manners, Guide for the Turn of the Millenium, pg. 572.)
Well damn, amiranth beat me to the etiquette angle. As stated, from the perspective of etiquette, an engagement ring and all other expensive gifts should be returned when a couple break up. This is on both sides, BTW.
In the state in which I reside, if the groom-to-be breaks the engagement, she keeps the ring. If the bride-to-be breaks the engagement, she gives the ring back. They don’t go by Miss Manners.
Y’know, this is going to sound hideouly unicorn-and-rainbow-y of me, but I’d say even she’s better of returning it. Assuming she’d sell it, the money has some really nasty karma (read: memories) attached to it. I hope she just says “feh,” returns it and forgets all about your nephew.
Sad that his grandmother (your mother?) keeps taking him in. He won’t learn anything until she puts her foot down.
Count me in as one of those saying it’s best if she returns the ring. However, I think Manda JO makes a good point - if her family has spent money on the wedding, then the honourable thing for him to do would be to reimburse them. Of course, from what you’ve said about your nephew, this doesn’t sound particularly likely, so I think his ex-fiance could be forgiven for selling the ring to pay for expenses.
I had the same question several months ago. My friend was “dating” (if you can call it that) this girl for about 6 weeks and they had talked about getting married. He bought her a $1,200 engagement ring and flew to Florida to spend Thanksgiving with her and propose to her. A week after they got “engaged” she broke it off. She had no intention of returning the ring either. He e-mailed her about it and she replied with an entire page of “F**k you!” Come to find out she’s been engaged 2 or 3 times before (no one’s really sure how many times) and has kept/sold all of the other rings. Wish he’d known about this before he proposed to her.
To me, an engagement ring is a symbol of your promise to marry. Regardless of who dumps whom the ring should be returned because you didn’t get married.
I don’t know why a woman would want to keep it anyway. It would always remind you of that failed relationship and you wouldn’t get much money for it if you tried to hock it. I guess you could have a jeweler set the diamond(s) in a necklace or earrings or something but it would still remind you of that person. And if a guy takes the ring back… what’s he gonna do with it. He shouldn’t give it to another woman (I’d be pissed if I got an engagement ring that was previously worn by another woman!) and I doubt he could return it to the store. Hmmm, I never really thought about that before I guess.
Don’t know about other states, but here in Wisconsin the law states that the ring must be returned unless given on a “gift-giving” holiday (Xmas, B-days). Rachelle, your friend may have some legal recourse to get that ring back if he wants to.
All in all, seems the best way to handle this from a moral and legal standpoint is for the woman to give it back and have the guy reimburse her or her parents for any wedding related expenses they might have incurred.
jk12445 said what I was going to say.
IIRC, if the ring is given as a birthday present or Christmas present, it can be considered a gift, and may be kept.
That said, I agree with the others who said it should be returned. I certainly wouldn’t want a ring given by a cheating ex-fiance, other than to sell it, and even then only as reimbursment for money already spent on wedding plans. {If it was me, I’d want to give it back to by shoving it where the sun doesn’t shine, but hey, that just my opinion. )
The store where it was purchased should be willing to take it back, depending on how long she had it. Maybe for store credit, only, though.
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