Well perhaps you should call out whoever said that, because it sure in hell wasn’t me.
I think if the prez is going to nuke every non-American on the planet, we might as well nuke ourselves too, it’ll spare us a long agonizing death.
/not fond of living in some post apocalyptic wasteland
Maybe it’s just because I’m a crazy America-hating liberal, but if the choice is between the destruction of the USA and global genocide of all non-Americans, the only remotely moral, sane choice is the destruction of the USA.
It’s part of the credo of the neoconservatives – “The US is the world’s sole superpower, so we shouldn’t hesitate to throw our weight around and reshape the world to our ends.” Or, in their own words,
Or, as some dipstick said once, “You’re either with us, or you’re with the terrorists.” :rolleyes:
I meant to say this, but it didn’t come out right. You summed it up perfectly.
In the name of the senate and the people of Rome. Hail Caesar. :eek:
Well, with this administration it’s more Sid than Julius…
That kind of shows a misunderstanding for the purpose of Amnesty. They are not there to be ‘in the center.’ They are there to call attention to torture and other violations of human rights. Doesn’t matter who does them…
Well, in a way it does matter who does them. It is one of the things about living in a democratic republic that you get held to higher standards than countries that aren’t. If the US wants to be able to criticize Saudi Arabia and China on their woeful human rights records (not that they show any willingness to criticize the first…), then mre emphasis is rightly placed on their own human rights record by organizations such as Amnesty than is placed on, for example, The Sudan.
I always thought being held to the higher standard in this area was something of which to be proud. I certainly did not come to the US because its human right’s record is ‘Better than Sudan.’
“Smallpox! Not nearly as bad as rabies, much better than leprosy!”
Well, our baseball teams are better than the Sudan, too.
Well I don’t know. Without the Mogadishu Sox being allowed to compete, is it really the World Series?
That’s Sonalia; I think it’s the Khartoum A’s that you had in mind.
mstay, I stand corrected. Thank you.
Not that I think people would hate Bush any less, but if he admitted we’d fucked up and are rethinking our plans, it would be a great first step. Never will happen, but it’s nice to dream!
I was watching Rummy and Shelton earlier on CNN, what a bunch of fucking tools. We could do no wrong in their eyes. Amazing watching them say Iraq is on the up and up with a straight faces.
You are absolutely right, but it is not that simple.
So let us do some scenarios:
The Russians launch a first strike of 1000 intercontinental ballistic missles with an average payload of 10 megatons. Should the President launch our missles in retalliation?
A madman becomes elected president of Russia, declares war on the US, and launches half of Russia’s arsenal (say 500 missles). Should the President push the button?
Hmmm, these are pretty stupid scenarios. That said, we have a nuclear arsenal for a reason. Should we ever use it? Are there any scenarios where we launch? Or should we just elect to be destroyed without using these doomsday weapons as we are probably screwed anyway under these scenarios? I don’t know.
If there were hundreds of atomic bombs coming my way and I had the ability to push the button in retaliation, I probably would. 
What a horrible thought!
Miller, please point to me the point where “Well, if it’s 6 billion of those other people to the 300 million folks who are US citizens, I guess we just curl up and die.” The Constitution is the people. Hell, it starts with “We The People…”
What makes that so wrong? World be damned, if my government isn’t working to better my life, I don’t know what its purpose is. Why don’t we just decomission all of our carriers? Better yet, our bomber and ICBM forces too! Hell, let’s do away with our military all together. After all, if we speak softly enough, everyone will be like “OOOH! Look! The US is being nice! Lets give them everything they ask for! Ain’t the new USA sooo CUTE!!!” We won’t need a stick…
But seeing as the world works in slighly different ways, I’m glad we have the biggest stick in the pile and the willingness to swing it when necessary. It’s usually easier to work towards a similar goal with like-minded countries, but whacking is necessary from time to time.
Good point. The US needs to be held to a higher standard. We DO hold ourselves to a higher standard. Protests in the USA do not end with 10,000+ dead (China,) theft is not punished by the forced amputation of a hand (Saudi, Syria, Yemen,) rape is not used as a weapon of war (Sudan, Somolia, Sierra Lione, Yugoslavia, Russia,) we have free and fair elections (God, I don’t have that much time to type all the violators of that one. A few include Russia, China, N. Korea, Cuba, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, Pakistan, Yugoslavia (or whatever Serbia and Montenegro call themselves now) and many more,). Instead, we have, at a high estimate, 1,500 or so people in Gitmo, Bagrahm, and Abu Gharab. Some were abused. The abusers are being tried and are, when found guilty, being punished. Amnesty international needs to scream as loudly about the tens of thousands of deaths that countries which it seems to ‘like’ as it does to the US.
Hey, unless things really went downhill from mid-March (when I left there,) things are a helluva lot better there now then they were during the actual campaign (in some cases, before the war too. At least everybody can hook up to the water and power grids now. Not that there is enough to go around, but there wasn’t enough before the war either…)
I suppose the real question is if what the govt is currently doing is bettering your life. The economy is shaky, we’re spending hundred of billions on a stupid war we’re going to lose, we’re drawing the ire of the world, our rights are being quietly stripped away in the name of “securing the homeland”, and we’re turning out 2 terrorists for every one we take out.
The only people with better lives these days are employees of Brown and Root.
http://icasualties.org/oif/default.aspx
78 American troops killed in May 2005. The preceding 3 months didn’t go higher then 58.
http://www.icasualties.org/oif/IraqiDeaths.aspx
270 Iraqi police killed in May 2005, an all time high
IIRC over 600 Iraqis have been killed this month alone, more then any other month.
Yeah things are looking up, if you’re a funeral director! :rolleyes:
You’re exactly right: Coffin Industry Booming in Iraq
Mutual Assured Destruction (MAD) and other systems does not exist to make your life better. It is a deterrent, based on a “gaming” philosophy - The idea that no one is insane enough to push us so far we have to go nuclear. We have a military for defense. We have all those weapons systems for defense. They are not supposed to be used to force our will on the world, they are there to protect us as a last resort. We must not become empire builders and conquerors. Just because we have the biggest stick right now doesn’t mean we should misuse it. I refer you to Eisenhower’s words on the waging of “preventive” war. The same words apply to preemptive war and war for profit.
Also, Ted Kennedy:
I guess by now you get my point?
History teaches us that trying to use reason against these fools only results in the point bouncing off their heads like a spitball off a coconut. - World Eater