Did anyone else think Harry Potter 5 sucked?

Cafe Society
1

Ok. I finally succumbed to public opinion, went to my little sister and borrowed all five books.

Being in summer limbo, I was able to get through them all in about a week. While not terribly impressed, I can easily see why the series is so wildly popular. They were all quick, easy reads, and I don’t feel like I wasted my time reading any of them.

But the Order of the Phoenix was just… rather disappointing. It was so chock-full of teen angst and the main characters shouting at one another that it completely detracted from the rest of the storyline.

Am I alone here, or did Rowling go just a bit too far with the character conflict in this one?

2

I think you’re right. I had high hopes for HP 5, and quite frankly I was dissapointed. There wasn’t much plot, and what plot there was, could have been dealt with in a much shorter book. So yes, it sucked.

3

Fairly crap yeah. I love the HP series, and enjoyed the first two thirds of OotP, but it’s like she ran out of time at the end or something, I kept waiting for her to go “and then I woke up and found that I had missed the buss”. Shape up Rowling, you can do better than that.

4

I’m glad you didn’t have to wait three years like the rest of us for this steaming bowl of tripe. We bought it the day it came out, and I had to pull rank on my nine-year-old so I could read it first. We had been waiting for this book for soooooo long. I wanted to cry at the end, not because of any tragedy in the story itself, but because it was such a let down. I am just hoping that what I consider the huge plot holes in this book are actually painstakingly crafted set-ups for the final two. But I can’t quite make myself believe it.

Shame, Ms. Rowling.

5

I won’t go so far as to say it sucked completely, but I think there were a few definite missteps. When the series is over this could be the book known as When Harry Potter Jumped The Shark.

[spoiler]The book was (mis)named Order Of The Phoenix, then proceeded to gloss over much, if any, of the details concerning the only group opposed to the rise of Lord Voldemort and then gave us a lot more about the impromptu formation, training and membership of far more interesting ‘Dumbledore’s Army’ at Hogwarts. Still, I think the revelations about the room they trained in was a bit TOO convenient and coincidental.

Then there was the huge PR red herring I swallowed about Rowling killing off a major character… one whose death made her cry. In the back of my mind all the MAJOR character were in some sort of jeopardy and then the dead person turns out to be… Sirius Black. It would have meant more had he and Harry’s character bonded more in this book prior to his death.

I pointed out in another thread that I was surprised no one thought to prevent Sirius’ death by using one of those time turners on that shelf that got knocked over when they were running through the Department of Mysteries. One was used to save a hippogriff – they wouldn’t use one to save Harry’s guardian and a fellow in the Order?[/spoiler]

6

That’s interesting - I felt like the first 1/3 of the book was incredibly slow and could have been reduced by 100 pages or so and been better than it was. I actually felt like it went better from about the time that Umbridge took over through the big fight. After that, I thought a lot of Dumbledore’s “revelation” could have been cut out with no problem.
Beyond that, I thought that the thing with Hagrid and his brother didn’t add anything to the plot. Sure, it may come up in one of the next couple of books, but it just felt like an odd insertion into the plot.

7

I agree, yeah. I’m not one of those people who seem to think Rowlings is the reincarnation of JR Tolkien, but I enjoyed the first 4 HP books a lot. They were extremely readable, and I’ve re-read them all a few times. But I hate it when the author picks on a character past the point of belief, and that’s what Rowling seems to be doing. Of course, I only got about halfway through the book… I haven’t been able to finish it yet. Angsting!Harry is just annoying as all get out. His pissiness seems so out of character, it bugged the heck outta me. Maybe I’ll make another try someday and further reading will justify these things to me, but til then, I’ve been feeling pretty disappointed.

8

I disagree that it sucked, but don’t beat me up because I’m a newbie and I wear glasses. :cool: (Okay, I’m a newbie nerd, not cool, but this is the only one with glasses.)

Rowling crafted a story arc that we’ve yet to finish. One layer of the arc is the realistic development of children into adults. Harry’s rage is authentic and uncomfortable. The earlier books have more joy in them, but I appreciate Rowling’s intentions to do justice to Harry’s humanity. I don’t think Rowling is picking on Harry anymore than Tolkien picked on Frodo. That’s just how drama works. Harry is an annoying teenager and will grow out of it.

What are you reading the books for? I don’t mean that dismissively. If you want something lighter, you better bail on the series now, because she is going to war with them. Just like Tolkien, I expect it to be bloody and tragic. I want the catharsis. Remember The Neverending Story? Or Ainulindale in The Silmarillion? The story has to take us over time, in story, in a song, through grief and suspense to earn our commitment. Individuals join together in community to defeat the joykillers, the bureaucratic, the corrupt.

I’m sorry she’s lost you. I’d really be surprised though if you don’t get the final books. How could you not want to know how it ends?

Askia, as far as your specific complaints go,

[spoiler] I’m guessing MORE MUST BE REVEALED about what the Order is up to since I betcha Snape’s character has to stay ambiguous for a long time yet. And IIRC, the convenient room was hinted at fair and square as a broom closet for F&G and a lavatory for Dumbledore in earlier books. That’s part of the fun for me, figuring out what elements are going to be really significant later.

Sirius and Harry bonded in books 3 and 4, didn’t they? I agree, the distance from Harry’s warmth from identifying Sirius as a father figure there, and Sirius’s whininess in OoP make it hard for a reader to be empathetic. I don’t know, maybe she was trying to soften the blow. I know for a fact she’s said the sudden death was intentional, that she said death can lack a dramatic buildup. That’s part of the evil of war, the sense of random accident, the meaninglessness.

And the time-turner can’t be a save because we saw Sirius die. You’d blow up the space-time continuum or go down a different pantsleg or something. Beaky the hippogriff wasn’t seen to be dead, so Rowling isn’t cheating. She sets up the rules of magic, and she follows them. [/spoiler]

9

i agree with boobah. i think the series took a definite turn with book 5, and while i do think jkr needs to exercise some self-restraint or get a new editor, i loved book 5. the book was more about harry discovering that there is more to everyone than he thought, that the world and people are more ambiguous, and that growing up is rough.

if you’re into the books for the action of quidditch or the witty retorts, that’s too bad for you because you’re missing out on a great journey with some of the most complex characters i’ve ever read. it’s not lord of the rings, but it was never intended to be.

10

I have never figured Rowling for Great Literature, but I thought she did pretty well with this one. (It could have been shorter; her editor needs to reassert some control.)

Harry the whiner is irritating–but he is supposed to be. He’s 15. In other threads and discussions on this book I have seen people really getting down on what a “bitch” Cho was, but I thought she was just being a girl with conflicted feelings about two guys, one of whom she lost. 15-year-old Harry, with no older siblings to watch, (and with all sorts of issues that Cho can’t know about) is floundering around in puzzlement regarding what he should do with his life and how to interact with a girl (and with the revelation that his much admired father could be a jerk)while feeling the pressure of being looked upon as a savior of sorts. If I were to criticize Harry’s “development.” I would say that he is a pretty slow learner in some of the lessons that have been handed him through each of the five books. (I always enjoyed the way that when one of Lloyd Alexander’s characters learns a lesson, they don’t keep repeating the same mistakes in each book. They may stumble holding on to the lessons, but they don’t have to learn them over again.)

The book was not perfect, but I could see where Rowling was (legitimately) going, even when I saw her lose some control.

11

I agree with the original post - The 5th book just sucked.
Boring, repetitive (can they send in an editor please.) I wanted to stick with books, but they lost me.

12

boombah.

[spoiler]I can see the merit in your points re: the time turners. Even the convenient room, to some degree – although while Dumbledore did hint at a disappearing/reappearing lavatory, that’s a far cry from the fully stocked combat room complete with Hermione’s personal library that was revealed in OoP! (I mean, come on – who else is going to READ those books?) I thought the Weasly twins only mentioned their discovering the room in passing after they were admitted to it.

I remain committed to my stubborn opinion this book shouldn’t have been called Order Of the Phoenix when all we saw of them was the set-up and last minute rescue, and Dumbledore’s Army would have been a far more intriguing title for book 5, but nooooobody cares what I think! I’ll go grouse to my house elf.[/spoiler]

13

I thought it was the best book in the series. Like tomndebb says, it’s not Great Literature, and it can be annoying that characters don’t learn their lessons like Llyod Alexander’s characters, but I liked it and thought there was better character development than in the previous books.

14

What disappointed me the most was that all of the payoffs you were promised never really came. Dumbledore’s revelation was totally lame (he didn’t really tell us anything we didn’t know before, except perhaps that Harry staying with his aunt in summer has a reason). Things I was especially disappointed to learn were that

The howler came from Dumbledore (I though we were going to learn Petunia was a squib or that she’d had a romance with a wizard or some other entry to the magic world that explained her hatred of her sister a bit more.

I was also disappointed that more wasn’t made of

Lucius Malfoy’s arrest- it should have been a great scene, but it happened off-stage

And Umbridge’s come-uppance also could have been a much better scene (and a lot more severe). Of course the “death” didn’t leave a body, and to paraphrase a line from DUNE, never count anybody as dead until you’ve seen their corpse and then don’t be too sure.

OTOH, there were a lot of elements I liked. Hagrid’s half-brother is interesting (especially the difference twixt him and the full-giants- if all giants are like that, I wonder what attracted Hagrid’s father to his mother), the centaurs are promising to build to a payoff later, and I think that Dumbledore’s brother, who has been mentioned passingly in two books now, is going to become a major player.

I thought the scene where Harry “met” MadEye Moody for the first time (after his year with the fake MadEye) was pretty cool, incidentally, and I loved Moody’s exchange with Uncle Vernon at the end.

In other news, there are stills from HP&tPoA available now:

http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/poapics.html

15

A few minor nits to pick (the book is still rather fresh in my mind).

Sampiro - Umbrige showed up in the hospital later. I’m sure we’ll never find out exactly what happened. I respect Rowling’s need to keep some things in the dark for the benefit of her rather young audience.

As for hints about the convenient room, both of them were made in OoTP. The first was Dumbledore’s, when Umbrige first came to Hogwart’s. The second was, as somebody mentioned, after Fred and George learned about it. So it was rather too convenient, I think. It would have been better if Dobby had just led the kids to a yet undiscovered, empty chamber somewhere.

I fully understand that teenagers go through a lot of crap. I’m not very far removed from those years at all. What I’m mainly complaining about is that there was an overabundance of it. Hermione and Ron must’ve fought and made up at least half a dozen times through the course of the book.

Yes, Ms. Rowling. I understand that he’s having a hard time with things. Now get on with the story.

I’d like to see a prequel titled “The Order of the Phoenix,” all about Dumbledore forming the original order and the fight against Voldemort. There was lots of stuff hinted at that would make a rather good read.

16

A bit off-topic, and I don’t have the book with me at the time so I can’t look up page numbers, but I suspect the barman at the Hog’s Head is Dumbledore’s brother. When Harry and Co. go in there to meet the prospective DA members, the barman is described as having a long thin nose and, IIRC, piercing eyes, and Harry thinks he looks familiar. I definitely think we’re going to see that barman again.

Okay, back on topic. While I agree the book could have used a good editing job, and if Ron doesn’t develop a personality soon I’m going to scream, I think the rest of the characterizations are right on. Harry’s anger startled me at first, but then I got to thinking: He’s 15, a vile age in any case, and with all the stuff that’s happened to him, it’s no wonder his temper’s starting to get the better of him. I eagerly look forward to the next book; maybe, since Dumbledore’s talking to him again, he’ll settle down a little bit.

(after previewing) To nit-pick your nit-pick, Johnny Bravo, Dumbledore mentions the Room of Requirement in GoF, at the Yule Ball, when he talks about finding a room full of chamber pots. We just don’t find out that it’s called the Room of Requirement until OotP.

And I agree that a prequel, if done well, would totally rock.

17

I could’ve sworn the room with chamber pots was in OoTP.

My apologies if I’m wrong. As I said in the OP, I read the entire series in the week. All five books have really blended together in my head.

18

OoTP felt like a filler episode to me, not much of interest happened. Just kinda filled in a little non-essential character development until the real action happens. Huge big non-event.

19

I liked it, sorry.

[spoilers]
I thought that Harry’s inability to get a lot of time with Sirus was part of what made his death both unexpected and hard to take. Sirus was Harry’s happy ending: a father figure who he could come home to, a link to his father. The whole point was that Harry WANTED to get to know Sirus and become attached to him: and now that hope has been, seemingly, dashed. The scenes with Nearly Headless Nick and the broken communication mirror were some of the most sad and poingnant in the series.

The start WAS very slow. Rowling DOES need an editor to reign her in. But for all we know, it might not work quite as well without the stalling: because I have to admit that it built some major suspense for what would happen next.

I also agree that the ending was a bit rushed, and that Dumbledore’s revelation was pretty uninteresting, and even sort of inexplicable.

But the book was still a blast when it got going. Umbridge was fantastic, and Fred and George finally get their due.
[/spoiler]

20

Oh blast. Mod? A little help here in deleting a rouge “s”?