[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers]
Don’t watch Curb Your Enthusiasm. It’s George, cubed. You’ll be tempted to use gunfire.
[/QUOTE]
I think Larry David in Curb Your Enthusiasm pushes a little against society’s boundaries and gets violently shoved back in return. Question authority!
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers]
Don’t watch Curb Your Enthusiasm. It’s George, cubed. You’ll be tempted to use gunfire.
[/QUOTE]
I’ve never seen it but I’ve heard clips on the radio. Yeah, I think I’d probably want to seek out Larry David and…slap him silly.
[QUOTE=Skald the Rhymer]
I don’t think that’s even a fair criticism of the show. Here’s what I recall of the five Huxtable kids:
Sondra: Goes to Princeton, graduates, & marries. Lives in poverty for a while after marriage because she and her husband are idealistic. Has twins, decides this is stupid, and accepts help to move into a non-squalid apartment while her husband goes to medical school. She may or may not have gone to law school–I don’t recall–but certainly she was en route to a comfortable middle-class life.
Denise: Okay, she’s the family fuckwit–dropped out of college after her freshman year and drifted for quite a while. But she eventually marries a career officer in the navy and settles down. Solidly middle-class.
Theo: Struggles through high school because of his learning disability; gets diagnosed in college, learns how to deal with it, and graduates with a degree in education. Has at least one responsible, “real” job in college and heads to grad school.
Vanessa: Annoys her parents by nearly marrying an older man while in college, but breaks up with him and never seems in danger of dropping out. Still incollege when series ends. Inconclusive.
Rudy: Still in middle or high school when series ends. inconclusive.
Olivia: mysteriously never murdered though there were thousands of reasons to.
I can’t see that the Huxtables raised losers.
[/QUOTE]
I think your arguments proved these kids WERE losers.
Sandra had everything going for her and still screwd up. Denise, screw up. Theo and Vanessa didn’t amount to anything. Rudy OK we’ll give you that one.
These kids had every advantage, and had well educated parents who could THINK. They should’ve learned how to plan for life. Sandra and her husband were still asking for money AFTER they were married with kids. Why? That is not good. Any kid after graduating college (and in my opinion before) should be self supporting.
The kids should’ve, at minimum, been college graduates or moved out of the house and been self-supporting once they were over 18.
I found it frustrating as hard as Clair and Cliff worked they were unable to pass any of their ability to do this to their children.
Unfortuntely this is similar to real life. I went to school worked my way through it, not took out loans and in my mid 20s am now successful, it was hard but I did it with no help. If I needed money, I dropped a class and got a second job, not ask Mommy for money.
That is what I think made Cosby less funny as the kids grew. Like Friends, it was ridiculous at the end. It was fun to see a bunch of 20 something kids in NYC making mistakes and having fun but 9 years later they were still doing the same things. A mistake a 20 is fun in your mid to late 30s the same mistake is pathetic, not funny
[QUOTE=storyteller0910]
Nitpick: That was Cliff. It follows close on the heels of the “Theo, that’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard in my life” line described above, from the pilot. As I recall, it’s followed by something like: “now, you’re afraid to try because you’re afraid that your head is going to explode, and your brain is going to ooze out your ears. But you’re going to try because I said so. I am your father. I brought you in this world; I’ll take you out.”
I love that speech, and this show.
[/QUOTE]
I’m pretty sure Claire said it in at least one episode…perhaps they both did.
[QUOTE=lobotomyboy63]
I’m pretty sure Claire said it in at least one episode…perhaps they both did.
[/QUOTE]
storyteller is correct. Only Cliff made this speech and it’s from the pilot.
[QUOTE=Lute Skywatcher]
Particuarly for those who didn’t find it funny. 
[/QUOTE]
So sitcoms are supposed to be funny?
No, it was more Leave it to Beaver crap but this time with a black family in Brooklyn.
[QUOTE=iturntoyou]
I think your arguments proved these kids WERE losers.
Sandra had everything going for her and still screwd up. Denise, screw up. Theo and Vanessa didn’t amount to anything. Rudy OK we’ll give you that one.
[/quote]
What? When the show ends, Sandra is married with two kids and is in law school. Denise is married with a loving step-daughter and on her way to being a special-education teacher. Theo, the kid no one expected to graduate, not only does so but turns down a high-paying job to continue his studies and be the Non-Regular Person he never wanted to be. And Vanessa would have turned out alright even if she had married Dabnis. He didn’t seem like a bad guy at all.
The show ends before the kids fulfill their dreams, true. And none of them take the easiest path. But if they’re losers, then so are most people.
Which not only would have made the show incredibly boring, but it would have been unrealistic. They had five kids. The chances that all five kids would grow up perfect is slim to none.
But they did! When it was all said and done, none of their kids devalued education. None of them were unemployed (well, except for Denise, but she was being the stay-at-home mother). None of them had shacked up with bums, nor had any of them done any crimes. Underaged drinking was their worse sin. Most parents would love to be so lucky.
If this had been an HBO drama, Sondra would be some bougie snob (Alvin an abusing husband), Denise would have done a stint in rehab after dropping out of school, Theo would be some wannabe playa thug, Vanessa would be dancing on someone’s pole to support her out-of-wedlock children, and Rudy would be a juvenile delinquient. And everyone would be saying this was the best show ever because it’s “real”. Real my ass.
I loved Roseanne, but the kids were not very lovable (Becky would have been killed a million times if I had been her mother). The Cosby kids were shown with all their flaws while still maintaining their lovable qualities.
I was a teenager. I thought it was cute. I liked the stuff with Theo & his friends.
Not really into the later stuff with a very young Raven-Symone.
[QUOTE=iturntoyou]
The kids should’ve, at minimum, been college graduates or moved out of the house and been self-supporting once they were over 18.
[/QUOTE]
Uh, the only one who was old enough, but didn’t graduate from college was Denise. Vanessa was doing undergraduate work, Theo & Sandra were both working on Advance degrees, and Rudy was in Middle School.
None of the kids were portrayed as anything resembling a loser.
[QUOTE=monstro]
I loved Roseanne, but the kids were not very lovable (Becky would have been killed a million times if I had been her mother). The Cosby kids were shown with all their flaws while still maintaining their lovable qualities.
[/QUOTE]
Please. Becky’s biggest sins were getting blitzed at 15, having pre-marital sex and then getting married at 18 (to a man she would stay married to for the rest of the series).
I’d bet most parents would be thrilled about those being their kid’s only problems too.
[QUOTE=Justin_Bailey]
Please. Becky’s biggest sins were getting blitzed at 15, having pre-marital sex and then getting married at 18 (to a man she would stay married to for the rest of the series).
I’d bet most parents would be thrilled about those being their kid’s only problems too.
[/QUOTE]
But how many times did that girl storm up the stairs declaring her hatred for her parents? Quadrillion, that’s what.
None of the Cosby kids did that. They were raised right.
[QUOTE=SaharaTea]
storyteller is correct. Only Cliff made this speech and it’s from the pilot.
[/QUOTE]
Searching brings up nothing to refute this…I don’t know why I remember her saying that because I can almost see it in my mind 
.
At about 1:50, Clair has a similar moment…but not the same
[QUOTE=monstro]
But how many times did that girl storm up the stairs declaring her hatred for her parents? Quadrillion, that’s what.
None of the Cosby kids did that. They were raised right.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, 'cause Claire would have eaten them. Good for her.
Seriously, Becky was a hideously obnoxious person - in other words, a very believable teenager. But I don’t think that Vanessa and Theo were unbelievable just because they were less snotty. (I mean, Vanessa was pretty snotty.) I’d way rather have my kids be friends with a guy named Cockroach than run off and get married to that total dumbass guy.
I can totally understand not liking Becky, though I think her brattiness is often exaggerated by viewers; she had a few episodes of acting out (I love Roseanne’s comment, “how can she be so spoiled when we’ve given her so little?”) but over the first several years Becky had a lot of responsibilities and was generally a good kid.
I loved both shows and I don’t think comparing the kids works that well. Let’s be serious here, it was a lot easier to be a Huxtable than to be a Connor. The Huxtable kids lived in a crime-free wealthy part of Brooklyn, wrapped in privilege and protection thanks to their parents’ success, with a generally easy life, no financial worries, no major problems – hell, no problems at all that weren’t fixed in 22 minutes! Not saying that upper middle class children are automatically well behaved or problem-free, of course, but this semi-ideal world is what The Cosby Show was trying to represent.
Meanwhile, the Connor kids lived in a failing town, surviving from paycheck to paycheck – when they had paychecks, which wasn’t a sure thing. Dan and Roseanne didn’t work at their dream jobs like Cliff & Claire; through most of the kids’ childhoods, Dan had a backbreaking job as a drywaller, which he hated, and Roseanne went from a miserable factory job to fast food to sweeping up hair at a salon to waitressing (before finally coming into enough money to start her own business). Their aunt also floated from job to job. Their maternal grandmother was a naggy belittler, and their maternal grandfather was retconned into an abuser; their paternal grandparents were largely either absent or obnoxious when present. In general, things were way more unstable and uncertain than in the static, safe Huxtable family.
But this is because of the differences between the two shows’ formats (even though they were by the same production company, interestingly enough.) Unlike the TCS universe, Roseanne had longterm story arcs, and that meant a relatively more realistic portrayal of ongoing family/childhood/teen problems. Becky started out being a people-pleaser, then slowly as she grew older and had more responsibilities, began a pattern of dating jerks for excitement and escape; Darlene hit puberty/high school and went through a lengthy depression. Compare this to the unending line of Perfect Gentlemen Callers that Denise and Vanessa brought home and Theo’s ultra-brief hissy fit over not getting on Dance Mania, which lasted a total of ten minutes – and not show minutes, but ‘real life’ minutes!
The Huxtables didn’t have their electricity get turned off or parents whose regretted their life decisions or an aunt who got beaten up by her boyfriend. They didn’t have to worry about their futures. Denise’s big college problem was deciding between Hillman and a host of other great, expensive colleges. Paying for it? As Theo would say: “No problem!” Becky didn’t have such an easy option, and was understandably disappointed when her dreams of going to a good school devolved into attending a local community college that probably sucked and having to scrape every step of the way. Was she bratty and obnoxious at times? Sure. Was this a believable reaction? Also yes.
The Huxtable kids didn’t have to worry about anything in the longterm. The Connor kids had far less of a buffer from life, and reacted accordingly.
So I don’t think it’s a matter of being ‘raised right’. I think it’s being ‘raised fortunate’.
(As I said, I loved both shows. The Cosby Show was funny and comfortable and a great escape. But I must admit that Roseanne – in its first six seasons – had far more of an emotional depth and sharper sense of observational humor.)
…are great! Bill Cosby utters unintelligible mutterings, and nobody understands! That was MY memory of the BCS