Of course the Jews were to blame for the attack on Pearl Harbor! Don’t you remember what they were shouting?! “Torah! Torah! Torah!”
::d&r::
I think I’ve encountered this line of thinking before . . . There is some Boolean intersection between antisemites and fundie Christians. The latter follow the Bible, which gives the Jews a special place as the Chosen People. They rationalize the conflict by asserting that what we know as European Ashkenazi “Jews” are really not of Jewish blood at all, but “Mongol-Talmudists” descended from the Khazars, a Turkic people who settled in what is now the southern Ukraine and converted to Judaism some time in the 8th or 9th Century.
Which at any rate is slightly more plausible than British Israelism which holds that the Brits (or, in other versions, white Nordics in general) are the true descendants of the ancient Israelites.
But this one is new to me. Perhaps an effort to pre-empt the “Black Egypt” claims of the Afrocentrists?
Heck, even after Pearl harbor showed the potential of aircraft carriers as war winning weapons, the Wasp again ferried planes, so that they could be delivered intact: Wasp made two runs into the Med to flyoff a deckload of Spitfires to the besieged island of Malta.
http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/carriers/cv7.htm
(The Spitfire pilot was given a set of US Navy aviator wings in an unofficial cerimony. 
)
For those not familiar with the Khazar theory:
Arthur Koestler’s book, The Thirteenth Tribe made a bit of a splash when it came out with the speculation that after the Khazars, (or, perhaps, the Khazar nobility), converted to Judaism, (a genuine event in history), they were forced out of their homeland North of the Crimea and wound up moving up to Russia where they became the Ashkenazi Jews. The fact that there was no record of that purported migration among the Jews or the Rus or anyone else tended to argue against it, of course, as did the existing records of Jews migrating into Russia from Prussia and other places to the West.
The theory got a tiny potential boost when a couple of Israeli linguists following a totally different line of inquiry, concluded that Yiddish, rather than being a straight offshoot of German, is actually a Germanic vocabulary overlaying a Slavic grammar. (I have not seen anything about their research, recently, and I do not know where it stands in the philological community, today.)
However, all of such speculation was brought to an abrupt halt when DNA testing wound up providing an actual migration trail of the European Jews from the Mediterranean, through Germany, and East toward Poland and Russia,
No matter the way they developed their language and regardless of any converted Khazars, the European Jews are clearly descended from First and Second Century Jews living in Palestine who were sent into diaspora by the conquering Roman armies in 70 and 132.
It is almost a shame that the kooks running melvig.org ran out of money or died off and let their website lapse. It provided a good single-source reference for nearly all the truly outlandish Jewsih conspiracy theories, allowing one to point and laugh at them without having to search the web to see whether a new conspiracy was actually new or the re-working of an old one.
BG, your speculation that the Egyptian nonsense is an attempt to pre-empt the Afrocentric claims is probably a good one. Of course, it has even less support than the exclusively “Black Egypt” claims, as there were clearly white people living all across Europe long before the first Pharoah actually got himself a neat headdress and a really heavy tomb.
Conspiracy being notoriously the standard operating mode of what is called Realpolitik (versus the official theatrical politics), I presume that there must be many other intellectually honest persons who are sharing my desire to find conspiracies.
Besides, I’m far from suspecting a Jewish conspiracy. Reread my latest explanations and you will see that quite to the contrary, if I see a conspiracy, it is one against the Jews.
This conspiracy is deemed to be fostered by a tiny predatory minority among the widespread direct descendants of the Egyptian pharaohs, i.e. by the most powerful of all mafias because its members are issued from the most eminent of all elite (to whom we owe most of the highest achievements of the western world).
It happens that this small group of far descendents of the pharaohs, show some resemblance with the Jews/Arabs/Semites (longish face and nose) because the latter are issued from the pharaohs who stayed behind in the desert, where they produced mixed offspring with their (black) female slaves in their harems. Remember how Hitler featured the typical Jew in his schoolbooks: a long face/nose (as inherited from the pharaohs), but round eyes, pulpous lips, and darkened skin (as inherited from the beautiful black harem ladies).
The founders and installers of Israel, i.e. the bunch of highly gifted predators among the otherwise very large community of excellent white direct descendants of the pharaohs, are in fact the mortal enemies of the Jews.
You wrote that not all Arabs are Semites, true, but, as far as I know, all Semites are Arabs.
Hence, equaling Semitic with Arab, there is a vast confusion about Israel in public opinion, since the fiercely anti-Arab Hebrew State appears to be at the same time the most anti-Semitic of all nations.
The worldwide uproar against Israel’s most recent military operations in the Gaza strip should remind us of the origin of this confusion, i.e. the colossal imposture that began with the foundation of Israel in 1904, one year only after the discovery (1903) of the then biggest oilfields of the world in what is today the North of Iraq, by a group of German engineers during the construction of the Berlin-Baghdad railway track.
Obviously, some predatory German direct descendants of the pharaohs had decided to use their resemblance with the Semites to justify a territorial claim in Palestine – officially in order to found a homeland for the Jews, but in reality with the intent to create a military stronghold close to these Iraqi oilfields.
if you don’t see the fnord it can’t eat you.
Why would anyone pay any attention to how Hitler depicted Jews? Oy, my head hurts.
There are many things about which one wonders why any attention should be paid.
This should be interesting, however. It is a new one on me.
Oh, good. We get to start with a conspiracy that is millennia old, but which has not been long exposed and it includes something very nearly resembling a master race.
Actually, any representations of Jews in Nazi caricatures that contain sub-Saharan African features would be present only in the eyes of those who were seeking them. ::: shrug :::
Which, if you are claiming that some group of non-Jewish Europeans posing as Jews invaded Palestine for the purposes of controlling Arab oil fields, then your claim is directly contradicted by the genetic evidence that i already presented that demonstrated that Ashkenazi Jews were closely related to Sephardic and Mizrachi Jews. In other words, all the people who are identified as Jews are actually related more closely than other groups.
Nice try, but semantic games are just that, games. The word “anti-semitic” was coined to mean “anti-Jewish.” That it has its roots in a cultural label for a larger group does not automatically change its meaning.
Behind the game, however, is a libel that should not be left to stand. There is nothing “anti-Arab” about the state of Israel. Israel includes a large number of Arabs within its own population. In addition, it has been willing to cooperate with any Arab land that is not directly intent on attacking it. Israel has a working relationship with primarily Arab Egypt, with Arab Jordan, and has held discussions with its Arab enemy state, Syria.
This is just silly. Nothing that happened in 1904 could be construed as a “foundation” of Israel (unless one arbitrarily decides that a Jewish state is somehow “created” by the death of Theodor Herzl). Similarly, the claim for the discovery of a huge oil reserve in Iraq in 1903 is hopelessly anachronistic. The rail line was given mineral rights to adjacent land and some surface seeping oil was known in Iraq in ancient times, (Plutarch and Herodotus both mention it), but there was no way that there was a “discovery” of oil in 1903. The first discovery of oil reserves in the Middle East did not occur until the exploration in Iran in 1908. (And why a 1903 discovery that never happened was a direct progenitor of even the movement for a Jewish homeland that began no later (actually decades earlier) than Herzl’s 1895 Der Judenstaat, has yet to be demonstrated. (As does the idea that creating a Jewish state in Palestine in 1904 to provide control over Iraq–which was a series of Ottoman Empire dependicies for another 13 years and did not become a country, as such, until 1921.)
As to “pharoahs” being the actual progenitors of white people, that is too silly to even tear apart. (I await the anecdote of their master race with bated breath.)
Ladies and gentlemen! Drumroll, please! Right here, today on the SDMB, British Israelism has been topped! This theory measures 8.9 on the LaRouche Scale! I mean, we’re well into Lizard People of the Grail Blood territory here!
That is my point. By reading the diplomatic the US had strong reason to believe would happen that morning, and did nothing. No wornings no alerts.
As far as using a carrier to deliever 12 planes. Do you have any Ideal how many barrels of oil a Yorktown class carrier and her escorts burns compaired to a freighter. Bad use of a large ship and fuel oil.
The military isn’t generally overly concerned with the most energy efficient way to solve a problem, so much as the quickest/most effective. Aircraft carriers are designed to carry and support a variety of aircraft and their missions. This makes them rather useful for, say, transporting fighter planes or bombers to land bases overseas. In fact, from what I understand, this was a common practice even later into the war (weren’t the various garrisons of airplane defending such islands as Guadalcanal later in the war delivered by aircraft carriers?)
The alternative to quickly delivering planes to a deployed air base was to have them fly there, which could be very difficult and dangerous for the bombers of the time, nevermind the smaller fighters with no dedicated navigators flying over featureless oceans. Quite a few planes were lost in WWII on such flights.
Pretty much, a carrier, with its flotilla of escorts, could sail near a base on some island, launch the entire detachment of planes at once, and be on its way to its next destination as soon as the last plane cleared the deck, while a transport would have to stop and be vulnerable for considerably longer.
A detachment of planes. Load the ship with planes and deliever a large number of planes in war time yes it is done. But 12 planes. And how much difference did 12 planes make to Wake? or Midway?
Both tomndebb and I have cited numerous occasions of just that (the use of carriers as aircraft ferries) before, during, and after the the attack on Pearl Harbor. These can easilly be confirmed by yourself using whatever historical resource method you prefer.
Can you explain why, since carriers were apparently used in this role (whether you think the reasons made sense or not, by all of the major CV operating powers: the USN, Great Britain, and Japan), this one specific mission (of Lexington and Enterprise) should be viewed any differently?
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The US Navy at the time was in a transition from older aircraft to newer model types. (The USS Ranger was still operating biplanes at the time of Pearl Harbor, the SBC “Helldiver” divebomber.) Production of the at the time F4F-3 was low, and as soon as enough could be assembled into a squadron or detachment, they were shipped out to likely “hot spots”.
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Ask the same of the Japanese: The Shoho and the Kaga were sunk (in different battles) while carrying Army “Zero” fighters intended to be flown off to the newly captured bases of Port Moresby and Midway, respectively. The poor relationship between the IJN and IJA meant that these fighters (and their pilots) were not even considered as available to fight in those battles that the ships were in. (Admittedly, the Army pilots probably had only a rudementary understanding (by IJN standards) of flight deck protocol, overwater navigation, etc.)
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12 is better than nothing. The aircraft delivered to Wake gave a good accounting of themselves, all things considered: VMFA-211 - Wikipedia
It is, alas, highly plausible that the impostors have done and are doing every thing in their means and power to forge genetic evidence about the Ashkenazi Jews – so I suggest that you should take a more critical look at sources of genetic evidence in this respect, as at least the part of them I incriminate may be false Jews, i.e. pertaining to the predatory fraction of the far direct descendents of the pharaohs.
I have to stress again and again that only a tiny minority of these direct descendants of the pharaohs is meant as standing for the predatory fraction, i.e. the mafia that can be found in every ethnic group (otherwise most readers would readily assimilate all of the direct pharaoh descendants to this mafia). Hence, speaking about the Russian, Japanese, Chinese (etc.) mafias is probably due to the fact that the Sicilian and the later Italian mafia stem from a particularly loquacious breed of people and had therefore always had problems with their ‘Omertà’… to the point that they have already produced three or four long-play movies explicitly depicting the functioning of the ‘honorable society’ (which was a correct denomination in its very beginning). Hence the name for all others of their kind all over the world; but also their actual problems in Italy, with dozens of their bosses in jail. Hence also the subordinate role played by the Italian mafia in New York under the rule of the much more secret and powerful so-called Jewish mafia (actually the profoundly anti-Jewish pharaoh related mafia). This should make us suspicious about a certain Rudi Giuliani, former head of NYC, and the role he may have played in the 9/11 plot – who else than himself could have ordered the leveling out of Fresh Kills, six months before the tragedy? A measure of which an NY official told a IHT journalist: “You can’t imagine how lucky we are that this has been done, because we wouldn’t have known where to go with the mountain of debris left from the towers” (six months is also the time span systematically mentioned by the totally controlled press when evoking the leasehold acquisition of the towers by Silverstein, whereas in fact it occurred only just six **weeks **before… and don’t forget that Giuliani had his command bunker in tower #7, and that he might have ordered the chief fireman to dispatch his 300 men into the staircases of the towers in order to prevent rapid escape and thus ensure a maximum of victims – remember he was fiercely decried in a recent hearing with the families of the sacrificed firemen).
But now you can be easier about my hypotheses, since I do not suspect any Jewish conspiracy behind 9/11, nor behind Pearl Harbor!
Don’t minimize the importance of language. I am a professional German and French writer and translator (vice versa and from English into both) and thus deemed to know what I am talking about – (re)reading Orwell 1984 would remind you of the crucial importance the meaning (whether true or forged) of words may have.
As far as I know, the Bush dynasty is on good terms (understatement!) with the Saudi royal family…
I’m no historian – you may see me as a police inspector (without pay nor budget or staff, however), trying to elaborate a working hypothesis about a major crime in order not to disperse his virtual investigator squad in all directions. My only hope is to give better informed readers enough incentive to help clearing the way towards the truth…
Although what you mean by ‘pharaoahs’ does politically rime with Shoah, it’s ‘pharaohs’ – just for the sake of stressing the intangible importance of every written word!
At least you are doing better by having used the word ‘silly’ only twice this time, felicitations!
Yet as you are demonstrating your open-mindedness by awaiting an explanation (and despite the fact that you are precluding its insignificance by mocking it preventively as an anecdote), I’ll try to give a succinct explanation of the evolutionary aspects of the question:
During the northward migration through the Nil valley (the umbilical cord between central Africa and the Mediterranean littoral), the elite of the involved black ethnic groups presumably selected their marriage partners in order to differentiate their offspring as much as possible from the typical look of their slaves, i. e. from the black genotype. Thousands of years and hundreds of generations later, the Egyptian pharaohs found themselves with a longish face rather than a moon-shaped one, a long hooked nose rather than a short flat one, almond shaped eyes rather than round ones, fine lips rather than coarse ones, a receding chin rather than a prognathous one, straight fair, rather than curled hair, and – last but not least indeed – clear, rather than dark skin.
Around 1000 before J.C., at the end of the Egyptian high culture, the most powerful among the pharaohs crossed the Mediterranean with their ships to found the Roman Empire, without passing through the Near East, where lesser pharaohs stayed behind to gradually mix with their slaves, presumably mostly by polygamy within their harems.
This has what to do with what, again? Jews are not descended from the pharaohs, and there are no pro- or anti-pharaoh-descendent cabals shaping world events.
This is all a long way from FDR and Pearl Harbor - maybe time for a new thread? - but I have to ask:
Where is there any evidence for this theory? You must have something to base this on, surely it’s not just you making it up out of thin air?
@ Marley23
I’m not a native English speaker, so I dont know the meaning of the word ‘fnord’, nor would I be able, by assuming any meaning, to make sense of the whole phrase.
And how is the Jewish Mafia related to Bugsy and Meyer and the Jewish Mob?
Your claim that the Navy would have used cargo ships (perhaps because they suddenly forgot the advantages of using carriers enumerated above) has been dealt with, so I’ll confine myself to this issue.
You’ve misapprehended my point. I’m not saying the “war warning” would have cause Adm. Kimmel to sortie the fleet to find the Japanese attack force. I AM saying the “war warning” should have resulted in Pearl posting patrols – in a time of rising tensions, a “war warning” should put anyone on his guard. The whole rest of the war, we operated long and mid-range patrol aircraft from every major base; we could certainly have started one day earlier (or even maintained patrols for weeks if nothing happened).
The Japanese were actually expecting us to be on guard and had planned to “fight their way in.” The total surprise at Pearl was an accident; the declaration of war was supposed to have been delivered before the planes struck.
Conspiracy theories that rely on things like the radar warning being ignored are strangely comforting because they imply faith in human perfection. The reason the radar warning went unheeded was that new operators were using the newly-installed radar set and someone decided they had mistaken the B-17 bomber flight due in that morning for an attack, and thus raised no alarm. It was a classic screwup of the sort caused by complacency and bureaucratic inertia; the sort of error to which all organizations are prone. People who discount the possibility that large organizations can screw up and get hurt are living in a bigger fantasy than any World War II conspiracy, no matter how outlandish.