Okay for arguments sake I will only talk about the word Muslim here as it were today’s follower who prays in a mosque.
That Muslim does not believe that Mohammed created Islam. To him Islam was always there to anyone who believed in God and if you ask him he will most likely say that Adam was the first Muslim because he spoke to him. He was the first man created. God asked him to worship him, that was the start of Islam. That was the time also that he asked Satan to worship him, and we all know the story of Satan being banished. It’s about worshiping the only thing known then when earth was created which was God/Allah. There were no other God’s to worship. It was man who started to make other Gods and worship other things.
Ignorant Muslims whose native language is not Arabic.
Allah is Gods name. It’s just his name to identify him from other gods.
There is absolutely no reason why anyone should be offended by anyone using God name if they believe in one God.
So, submitting to Allah is analogous to submitting an application form? What is it you’re submitting to him, and does it matter if you forget to use the new cover to the TPS report?
clearly I am not because you are all answering me and asking me and hardly any of the posts have been about the title!
You are all bloody well quoting me and I am replying to your quotes.
Alright, enough is enough. Please read the rules of this forum, Marmite Lover. You’re not allowed to call people stupid or otherwise insult them unless you are posting in The BBQ Pit, which you are not doing right now. So stop this immediately. BrainGlutton and Koxinga were making jokes.
If you want to keep discussing what Muslims believe about the origin of Islam, please start a different thread. I understand you were responding to something DCnDC said (although your reply was kind of tangential). The original topic may have been covered already, but we don’t know because we’re now spending more time talking about topics that are only somewhat related to it. Let’s take a time out and separate these subjects.
You came in and made a point about the meaning of the word “Islam” which while technically correct in the context of the Arab language, here in America and most of the world the word is understood to mean the Muslim religion, not the literal Arab meaning of “one god.”
Then you started proselytizing and making odd off-topic statements that are arguments in response to no one.
I’ve just gone back to re read this thread it and it seems this is how it goes according to the posters here.
Question
Did Mohammed exist?
So it seems that even if someone put something in their answer to that question at the end, which another poster disagrees with or is trying to explain that he was not responsible, ie " who may or may not be directly responsible for the creation of Islam. " the other posters are not to reply to that part of the post.
Is that it?
So I could make a post saying
Question
Does the moon exist.
and if someone answers
“yes I have seen it and apparently it is made of cheese”
The other posters should not challenge, correct or discuss that part of the reply which mentions cheese"
Basically you defined Islam differently than the way most people use it. It’s not a definition you made up, but you were using the word in a way most non-Muslims don’t. From there we’ve mostly been trying to straighten out what you were saying and establish that what Muslims believe about their own religion is not the same as the historical record.
Yes, it is. Saying fuck is not a problem. Talking about religions or groups is not a problem. Insulting other posters isn’t allowed.
You are talking theology, and everyone else is talking history.
Islam theologically means submission to the one true God. That’s fine - it is common to all the Abrahamic faiths. Jews, Christians and Muslims all agree - there is one true God which we all ought to worship.
But there is a subset of believers who teach that we ought to worship God by praying five times a day, confessing Muhammad as the last prophet, giving of alms, fasting during Ramadan, and making the pilgrimage to Mecca. The question under discussion is “was there a guy named Muhammad who founded a religion that teaches that God should be worshipped in those five specific ways?”
We are not saying that he preached a new God,; we are saying that he preached a new way of worshipping the same God that Jews and Christians do.
The surviiving correspondance appears to have been a single letter written by Mohammad and transmitted to us soley by Arabic sources. There seems to be some debate as to its authenticity, but in anycase the only proof that the Byzantines corresponded with Mohammad are from the Arabic side.
WIkipedia has a webpage on the Historicity of Mohammad. They claim the earliest outside sources regarding him date to the latter half of the 7th century, several decades after his death (the page isn’t well written though, its hard to tell if these are the earliest sources for the existance of Mohmmad, or just the earliest sources of biographcial information regarding him). In anycase, while these post-date the Prophets death, I’d say they’re close enough to verify that he must’ve at least existed. I can buy that fictional traditions regarding him might’ve sprung up soon after his death but its hard to believe that his entire existence would’ve been made up whole cloth when the time period claimed for his life was still in living memory.
What is it you’re submitting to him, and does it matter if you forget to use the new cover to the TPS report?