I’ve been in a discussion with another individual online who suggests that the CIA is responsible for the creation of ISIS. I haven’t yet asked him more about this idea, but before I do: Is there actual evidence to support this?
Huh? Are we delving straight into conspiracy-theory territory? If so, I’d suggest Israel as the more likely puppet masters, with the goal of getting the Western world so pissed off at Muslims that they’ll support a genocidal purging of the Middle East (or at least a genocidal purging of Palestinians, with maybe the Siani Pennisula thrown in for a buffer zone).
Back in the reasonable end of the pool, what I’ve read suggests that the “core” of ISIS are former supporters of people like Saddam Hussein & Mommar Ghaddaffi.
Turns out that knocking down dictators without first thinking “OK, what happens next?” was a rather big mistake. One that both Republicans (Hussein) & Democrats (Ghaddaffi) have committed.
Nah, the CIA was too busy creating the Aids virus to create ISIS.
But googling “CIA” and “ISIS,” I see some nutwing websites carrying secret Pentagon reports to this effect. No one real seems to be saying this though.
We know exactly how ISIL was created: after the U.S. invasion of Iraq, Al Qaeda in Iraq was bolstered from a backwater organization to a legitimately scary terrorist group. After the Sunni Awakening, AQI more or less got its ass handed to it, and it sort of moved West into Syria. After a little while, AQI re-launched itself as ISIL in the midst of the civil war.
Unless someone wants to argue that the CIA started AQI, it’s kind of nonsense to argue that the foundations of ISIL are some kind of mystery.
Oh wait, this is all conspiracy theory nonsense, so whatever.
Yeah, I suspect that the people who really believe this are going to be pretty much the same people who think the CIA is responsible for the 2003 Indonesian Ocean tsunami. (Apparently this is a popular conspiracy theory in Indonesia. In case you thought this sort of lunacy was somehow a uniquely American phenomenon.)
I can’t see how the CIA in particular created them. But the US and its allies in general? Yeah, that makes sense. Both in the “we toppled Saddam and created a power vacuum in Iraq” and the “We trained rebels in Syria, some of whom eventually became ISIS” senses.
Well, I think it comes down to a lot of people making a type of “post hoc ergo propter hoc” error in their thinking.
There are things the US did that created an environment that led to the creation of ISIS. There’s also some evidence that some people they trained and armed have gone over to ISIS. The problem comes when people suppose that, because ISIS came about after these events, that the rise of ISIS was the intended purpose of these events.
A lot of people can’t see the error in that line of thinking, and so they accept the conclusion that the US deliberately created ISIS.
Let’s move this over to Great Debates.
Colibri
General Questions Moderator
Paul Bremer created ISIS with his de-Baathification strategy. Bremer claims his policies were approved at the highest levels of the US and UK governments, which is certainly possible; and, that the elected government of Iraq broadened it beyond his original vision, which seems equally likely. I don’t see why you need to involve the CIA; nothing about that policy was a secret.
The real question is whether there would be something similar if the Baathists hadn’t been kicked out of the army. Probably, but I doubt it would control as much territory as it ISIS does.
The “CIA created ISIS” thing is quite popular on the Interweeb right now.
It is indeed true that the war in Iraq and the US strategy probably helped create ISIS. But “The CIA created ISIS” makes it siound like the Central Intelligence Agency deliberately created this group. Of course actions have unintended consequences, but the sequence of historical events that led to the creation of ISIS would therefore also include not only the CIA but
- The Iraq provisional government
- Tony Blair
- The Bush administration
- The Ottoman Empire
- Bill Clinton and his administration
- David Ben-Gurion
- The Ottoman Empire
… well, and 1,000 other people and groups I could name and then some.
And if Bremer didn’t create it, he at least helped it drastically, particularly in the more recent years when ISIS actively recruited Baathists who were supposedly instrumental in military campaigns.
For others wondering what you’re talking about, The hidden hand behind the Islamic State militants? Saddam Hussein’s.
No.
It’s the same kind of conspiracy theory along the lines of the Taliban being created by the CIA as well as Al Qaeda, which makes my blood boil.
Could anyone provide a simple sentence long refutation of this conspiracy theory?
I agree with what you said. The shortcoming with the type of argument you’re describing is that one could also conclude that Hitler created the state of Israel, since he set in motion of chain of events that led to that.
Plus fluoride in the water…
THINK about it!! 
[QUOTE=Horatius]
Well, I think it comes down to a lot of people making a type of “post hoc ergo propter hoc” error in their thinking.
There are things the US did that created an environment that led to the creation of ISIS. There’s also some evidence that some people they trained and armed have gone over to ISIS. The problem comes when people suppose that, because ISIS came about after these events, that the rise of ISIS was the intended purpose of these events.
A lot of people can’t see the error in that line of thinking, and so they accept the conclusion that the US deliberately created ISIS.
[/QUOTE]
Pretty much this. If someone wants to say that the US played a role in the creation of ISIS I’m certainly open to that argument…after all, we DID play a role there. But when someone says ‘Did the CIA create ISIS?’ they are implying that the question is whether or not the CIA DELIBERATELY created it…which is pretty much bonkers. It also gives the CIA nearly god like abilities to plan and execute deep strategies over years and keep it quiet, which is even more nuts.
This article lays out the origin of the old ISIS/CIA/Mossad Project Hornet’s Nest CT and some attempted refutations. Middle East countries love their CTs. It’s hard to blame them, but there’s no actual evidence for it, especially any references to Snowden having secret documents proving it.
CTs about America moving to destabilize or cause the revolution in Syria have been discussed before too, I don’t think there’s any evidence for that either, though that seems a little more likely and in line with the way America operates versus creating a terrorist organization and then bombing it. What, they all went rogue? America is just bombing them to keep up appearances? U.S. planners aren’t that clever.
Well, to be fair, the link between the CIA and the Taliban is a lot more direct. Aren’t the Taliban what grew out of the Mujaheddin that the CIA armed with missiles to drive the Soviets out of Afghanistan?
Hamid Karzai was also part and parcel of the Mujaheddin. There’s an awful big difference between the Taliban and Karzai, but nobody ever runs around yelling, “The CIA created a generally moderate Afghan politician who received numerous honorary degrees from major American universities!!!”
Yeah, that was pretty much my reply to the individual. I can buy the CIA being involved in the region, maybe unintentionally setting the groundwork for ISIS. But creating them whole cloth and no one knowing or blowing the whistle since ISIS emerged? Naw, the US government isn’t that good and human nature is just too contrary.
There was a suggestion a year or more ago that Assad “encouraged” ISIS, specifically to create a three-way fight, since the ISIS fighters also targeted the more moderate Syrian rebels. There was some suggestion he spent less time fighting them than the moderate. However, this three-way fight has been brewing since the fighting first started. (And note the Russians are using “we are fighting terrorists” as an excuse to bomb the non-ISIS opposition to Assad).
No, we supplied what eventually became the Northern Alliance, the Taliban were primarily funded by the ISI and the Saudis.