Was ISIS created by the US?

Was ISIS created by the US, or allowed to rise to power by the US?
Is this a conspiracy theory or true?


http://www.naturalnews.com/052090_ISIS_false-flag_terrorism_US_government.html#

I don’t know the standing of the links you’re offering but it is perfectly mainstream view:

The Guardian: how the US fuelled the rise of Isis in Syria and Iraq

BBC: What are its origins?

IS was also subsequently armed by the US as the (US’s proxy) Iraqi army deserted its equipment.

I guess in the sense that UK “created” the IRA, yes.

It was a consequence of the US led invasion of Iraq. but that’s not really the same thing as saying the US “created” it, especially as part of some CT.

If a burglar breaks into your house and steals a gun you own, in your view, you armed the burglar?

ETA: and we had a nearly identical thread just a little while ago: http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=775325

This is realpolitik in the Middle East. Do save the fireside homesy bogus parallels for a Ronald Reagan Convention.

Exactly, the question is whether it was an unintended consequence or an intended consequence. I tend to lean toward the latter (while openly admitting that I’m not an expert on the situation by any means) because I think probability favors foolishness over malice.

Worth noting that while this sounds like wild CT stuff to most people in the US, the notion that the US created and/or supports ISIS is widely believed in Iraq.

I don’t think that analogy is quite fair, since we don’t live in Iraq. It would be a closer parallel if, say, you bought a gun for a friend and that friend’s drunk roommate took it.

But to say ISIS was created by the US - with the intent that implies - is silly. A response to US policy in Iraq? Sure.

My 100% Democratic voting record tells me that I’m calling you out on a silly assertion in the folksy way that Bill Clinton would.

Your lack of substantive response indicates you don’t have one.

I’m also leaving out the part that ISIL already had guns before they took all the stuff from Iraqis. It isn’t as if 10,000 ISIL guys carrying nothing but two by fours with a nail in them walked up to the Iraqi army and disarmed them, and that was the first time that ISIL got guns.

There’s already a thread on this.

It’s not silly. The US knowingly walked away from a society it had effectively destroyed. If we’re still in the world of cute analogies, the only thing that could possibly happen was a firey backdraft caused by a huge military and political vacuum and fed by rage.

The US caused that, it just didn’t care:

Inside Iraq: Two years after U.S. withdrawal, are things worse than ever?

Just to avoid confusion, didn’t you mean the former?
Hey up_the_junction, I don’t think anyone would disagree that actions by the US have led to the rise of ISIS. The question is whether we intended to create something like that, in an evil Conspiracy Theory sense, or whether our inept foreign policy led to it without anyone in the US desiring that outcome.

So far I haven’t seen anyone arguing explicitly for the former.

So, we all agree that we shouldn’t have invaded Iraq. But how long do you think the U.S. should have occupied Iraq?

And do you acknowledge that the Iraqi government refused to negotiate a status of forces agreement with the U.S. to continue a large-scale military presence there? Do you think we should have kept tens of thousands of U.S. troops in Iraq that were subject to arrest by Iraqi police for any crimes they were accused of, whether real or imagined?

Or the Iraqis could have gotten their shit together and set up a stable democratic government. Unlikely? Yes. Impossible? No. Anyway, the US didn’t “walk away.” The US withdrew its military forces, which is rather different.

:rolleyes:

You are smarter then that, The US destroyed the whole infrastructure of the state and then said “tsk tsk” when the shit hit the fan.

Its like blowing up a dam and then being surprised at the flood damage.

[QUOTE=
Fotheringay-Phipps ]
Worth noting that while this sounds like wild CT stuff to most people in the US, the notion that the US created and/or supports ISIS is widely believed in Iraq.

[/QUOTE]

The US has armed some very dangerous and secretraian groups, so its not CT to suspect that they created ISIS. Not that they did, but from the Iraqi perspective, no unbelieabke.

I don’t think we were surprised. But this result was not inevitable. It wasn’t so much blowing up a dam as not bothering to repair it for 20 years.

I think you mean “former”, not “latter”. :slight_smile:

If any country deserves the blame for creating ISIS it’s Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states. They funneled money into the groups because they wanted Sunni insurgent groups as a counterweight to the Shiite insurgent groups backed by Iran.

No, the US blew it up - it cost $2 trillion and half a million dead civilians. That isn’t “neglect”. And walked away, creating the vacuum.

I presume you fully support the USA backing dictators in other countries?