I have all the classic signs: bags under eyes, inability to concentrate, short temper, giddiness, sudden lapses of . . . um, I forget.
It is a lot of work.
It is a lot of trouble.
It is a magnificent experience.
It is not the repayment of an ethical debt to my parents.
It is not a good analogy for the stigma of entrenched descrimination.
It is not an obligation to the Universe for the “gifts” of matter and energy.
We love our son. We make sacrifices for our son. We will undoubtedly endure any number of inconveniences and lost opportunities as a result of our son. This is not suffering. It is part of the path we have chosen to walk.
Scylla, this is glad news! I rush to gloat, that is, I rush to celebrate these tidings! I am on the other end of that, my boy is 233 months old now. It has been the most enriching, satisfying, and profoundly rewarding experience.
I would sooner nail my pecker to a tree than do it again.
You are now in a position to appreciate a fascinating experiment in physics. Go to the store, buy yourself an “office” shirt. Leave it wrapped airtight in plastic, store it in a drawer in a room where the child never goes. Wait two weeks and open it. Sniff. Yep, baby urp. An example of what Einstein called “spooky action at a distance”.
You may or may not be objectively correct in this statement, Scylla, but I’d like to warn you away from taking such an attitude in your relationship to your kid (not that I’m telling you how to raise your family, mind you). The risk is that if you raise your child with that attitude (i.e., I made sacrifices for you, kid, and now you owe me), even if you don’t ever express it verbally, he or she may grow up thinking that love is something one has to earn. [Mom and Dad love me only to the extent that I repay the debt I owe them, for example.] He/she won’t be able to understand the concept of “love given freely, unconditionally,” and his/her social relations risk becoming predicated on social obligation rather than true feeling.
I hope that doesn’t sound too much like New Age psychobabble; I’m actually speaking, at least in part, from personal experience.
Yeah, he did, leading Private Ryan to live the rest of his life in guilt, striving to make good on a debt that was essentially impossible to repay. Anyway, bad metaphor: although there may be some distinct similarities, raising a kid and fighting the Nazis in WWII aren’t exactly the same thing.
See, this perspective almost scares me. Your child’s life most certain is his own. It’s his, to do with as he see fit. Let’s hope he sees fit to use it well and wisely, as I’m sure he will if he gets a good start. But whatever else is the case, his/her life certainly doesn’t belong to you, Scylla, just because you happen to have chosen to have a him (or her).
Finally, referring back to the OP, there are also a lot of folks out there who really, really want kids, but for one reason or another can’t have them. I’d say they’re definately entitled to a few minutes of bitchin’ every now and again. I’d even argue that that’s worse, in some ways, than having kids.
Yeah, for some reason a lot of companies put a lot of importance on childbearing. When my wife was trying to get pregnant, our insurance paid for all the pills to give her a regular cycle. When she decided to put off getting pregnant and went on birth control, it wasn’t covered, funny considering that some of those pills are the exact same thing she was taking when trying to get pregnant, just different doses and timing.
Yeah, whatever. You don’t like it. Fine. Go choose another debate. I require large and thoughtful minds that are willing to voyage, not those that are afraid to leave harbor.
Stop complaining and go make something of yourself, or at least shut up and eat your peas.
I hear ya. The company I work for will assist with financial fees and time off for adoption, but when I want a new computer (my own little bundle of joy) I’m out on my own.
I didn’t have kids to because I thought I “owed” someone something. I don’t owe the world anything and the world doesn’t owe me anything. And I sure as hell don’t owe my parents anything for having me and raising me. F**k that. I had kids because I wanted to, plain and simple, just like they did. I wanted to have kids to love and take care of, to teach them and watch them grow, to leave behind in the world a little piece of myself that will live on until the end of time. (OK, that last one was a little cheesy… but still true!)
If I didn’t have kids I probably wouldn’t have as much to bitch about as I do now. I would have more money, more time to do what I want to do, a nicer car, nicer house, fewer bills, less laundry to do, less dishes to wash… I could go on and on. But without my kids I wouldn’t have all this love inside of me to share with everyone around me. I wouldn’t get to hear my 21 month old son say “I wuv ew mommy,” I wouldn’t hear my 3 1/2 year old daughter tell me that I’m her bestest friend in the whole wide world and that she loves me. The rewards by far outweigh the sacrifices. Do I think my kids should owe me (or anyone else for that matter) for making the sacrifices I have? I don’t think so. If my kids grow up to be decent, self sufficient, caring, loving people, that will be reward enough for me.
Quite frankly, your attitude sucks. No one held a gun to your head and made you have a kid. And I hardly think that just because your social life is on hold, you lost a few nights sleep and have to cut back on buying DVD’s and ski trips (or whatever your interests are) you quilify for martyr status. You don’t sound like you’re unemployed, living under a dictatorship, being abused sexually/physically/emothionally, or being persecuted for your beliefs/race/gayness/etc. There are a lot of people who have more important things to bitch about than changing a diaper.
I do not, however I will bitch about this instead:
Why is it that parents feel that just because they have a baby, it’s ok for them to inconvienience everyone around them? I realize that your kid is the center of your existence, but don’t make it the center of mine. You ask why you get looks in public?
-Most people just like seeing babys
…however…
-Most of us don’t enjoy going to a restaurant/movie/or other event only to have it ruined because some parent decided to bring a screaming 6 month old.
-People don’t find it cute to have an unattended child running down the aisles bumping into people and knocking stuff over.
-Because people don’t really enjoy the smell of baby feces when some parent decides to change their baby’s diaper right next to them on a crowded airplane.
-And finally, just because it happened to your kid, doesn’t make it interesting.
-Most of us don’t enjoy going to a restaurant/movie/or other event only to have it ruined because some parent decided to bring a screaming 6 month old.
Yeah, like I enjoy my 6 month old’s screaming? And I want to share it with you, in your lordly childfree state? When the baby screams, we get up and leave the premeses with him in our arms, allowing you to continue your meal in relative quiet, rolling your eyes at those horrible parents. (Movie? What’s a movie?)
-People don’t find it cute to have an unattended child running down the aisles bumping into people and knocking stuff over.
It isn’t cute. That’s why we discourage it in our offspring. Unfortunately, not being willing to train them to march in goose-step, they occasionally get out of hand. They’re, uh, acting childish.
-Because people don’t really enjoy the smell of baby feces when some parent decides to change their baby’s diaper right next to them on a crowded airplane.
Feel free to take another seat. You’re just going to complain about the kid when he cries, anyway. And those airplane latrines aren’t easy to change a diaper in.
-And finally, just because it happened to your kid, doesn’t make it interesting.
I wasn’t talking to you.
(Scylla: It gets better as things go on. 5-year-old Banjo is going away with his mama for a few days, which leaves me and 10-year-old Pianola alone at home…which means videos that are NOT animated cartoons, dining in restaurants, actual movie in movie theaters, more hot peppers in the homecooked meals, and Thurber instead of the Brothers Grimm for bedtime stories!)
Sure, you have it rough. Just wait until you have more.
Two adults can run interference on one child, take him places, eat a meal in a restaurant, (one eats, the other walks the toddler through the lobby or one sees the movie, while the other feeds the kid popcorn in the lobby), etc. Friends and relatives are eager (or at least don’t make truly lame excuses) to watch one while you play a round of golf. Two, you move to one on one - it gets a lot tougher. Try two little sick kids - think you don’t sleep now?
Three moves you to zone defense, and three also starts bring the “look” of “didn’t you know when to stop.” One baby is cute, one baby and two toddlers will send your average waitstaff into panic. (Haven’t done that myself, we aren’t brave enough to move to zone defense).
And, your kid is (I assume) healthy. And I’m assuming white. And you are married. And of an appropriate age. And well enough off that you don’t get “that” look in the grocery store. Any additional factors drive both your discrimination potential and workload up. One of my girlfriends - 23 and married when she had her baby, got stopped and lectured on teenage pregnancy in the mall while pregnant - she wasn’t wearing her wedding ring - too bloated, and did look about 15.
I have nothing but admiration (and a little pity) for the parents of multiples (twins, triplets, etc).
Oh, for Kdapt’s sake, Scylla, get the chip off the shoulder, bud. You know full well that having a kid does not afford you any special social rights or privileges . . . or at least it shouldn’t. What, it’s ok to infringe on other’s rights just because you’ve a child? Of course not. Nor is it bigotry to believe that.
And msmith, how about you chill out? It’s not hypocritical, but it is at least pretty fucking knee-jerk. Spewing blanket generalizations isn’t helping a goddamn thing.
What say we try to avoid the usual polarization here? It’ll only lead to the same old tired parent vs. cf crap, and I for one am just wayyy too sick of that noise.
Some thoughtful reponses to my OP here (such as it is.) I don’t mean to ignore anybody, but need to chew over those responses rather than post pat answers.
I’m thinking there’s actually either 3 or four debates here.
Imagine your SO is the baby. She requires 24 hours of vigilance and work per day and can’t hardly contribute anything in return.
Every time you try to spend some “me” time at the computer or resting, she’ll call out, “Sweetie, can you move my feet? Can you help me sit up? Can I have a glass of water? Can you help me to the bathroom?” Sure, there are devices that can help, but they don’t come cheap and HMO’s are reticent to pitch in. They only like to help with curable problems, not chronic ones that will be a drain on their resources the rest of your life.
People in church will push you and your wheelchair aside during Communion because you’re blocking the aisle, people in restaurants will knock over your cane, friends’ homes will have steps and low toilet seats, co-workers will beat you to the handicapped stalls, children will point and ask, “What happened to you?” or run under your feet at buffets, adults will comment that, by your stagger, it appears you’ve been having too good of a time. Going out of your home will be difficult at best and miserable at worst.
You’ll have to call ahead to places to see if they are handicapped accessible. If there are no handicapped bathrooms or toilets, your spouse will have to wait outside the door until you call for him. Going to the grocery store is a chore that will exhaust you for the rest of the day so it’s always put off 'til the last possible minute.
If your spouse is disabled, then you get no help with housework. The job of cleaning up after two adults and assorted pets falls squarely on the shoulders of you.
Your spouse will wake up in the middle of the night and need your help rolling over or getting up to go to the bathroom. If she gets up, then you’ll have to be there to help her lay down again. If the dogs have to go potty during the night, the responsibility to let them out is all yours because it would be more work for you to get your spouse up, though she feels guilty and wishes she could help. When she does try to help, she makes the problem worse by dropping or spilling or breaking things and not being able to clean them up herself.
The way people treat you like a baby. The way they have to offer helpful comments like, “You walk pretty good. I didn’t think you could walk at all.” The way they take things away from you as if your too damn helpless to do even the simplest task (which maybe you are, but dammit, it still stings when strangers automatically assume it).
Martyr complex.
Poor baby. So put upon. At least your kid will probably graduate high school and move out at about age 18. And before that, she’ll become more and more self-reliant. You won’t always have to dress her or feed her, she’ll soon be able to wipe her own butt, then tie her own shoe, ride her own bike, and drive her own car. Meanwhile, as a disabled person I’m becoming less and less self-reliant. Guess which things on that list I can’t do anymore. Guess what, there are more can’ts on the list than cans.
Or you’re a 28-year-old baby. I can’t figure out if I’m 28 going on 2 or 82.
And since my spouse is also my “daddy,” then I’m doubly guilty? How about that, I’m discriminated against and I cause discrimination.
I’m never going to be even at this rate. Thanks.
Yes, sir. Sorry, I didn’t realize I had it so good.
Scylla, I hope you are getting enjoyment and satisfaction out of being a father (it’s hard to tell from the OP) and I wish you the best of luck. But if you are expecting a societal parade of tribute in honor of your having made the Ultimate Sacrifice, it ain’t gonna happen. This is an event of magnitude in the Scylla Household and among some of your family and friends, but sorry to say, most of the rest of us are not highly grateful. There’s a glut on the market.
I can buy personal gratification, evolutionary urges, love of kids, accident etc. as reasons for childbearing, but hearing Debt to Society cited as the prime motive gives me gas pains. “Let’s go in the bedroom, dear, and pay our debt to society.” **
Uh, assuming that’s “five whole years” you’re talking about, does that mean you’re shoving the widdle kid out on the street when it’s five? Maybe with a cheap suit and a $5 bill? Most states make you responsible a little longer than that.
Ike, here’s hoping you reconsider the idea of changing a baby’s diaper on an airplane in the bathroom, instead of at your seat. Exposing fellow passengers to diaper stink in a crowded, limited air exchange setting is a rotten thing to do. Accept a little extra difficulty in exchange for being a responsible parent.
