I didn’t talk about extermination, I talked about atrocities.
I mean, I do agree with other posters that this is a genocide in progress, but step 1 is at least getting the IDF-defenders to concede that atrocities have happened.
You said upthread that you believed some soldiers may have “gone too far”. If you can’t give an example of what falls under this description though, it’s a performative concession.
Most of the original reporting, so you’re conceding that it is not only anti-Israeli sources?
What do you think of that reporting, are you dismissive of it? Why?
Actually, what am I saying!? Of course anyone that criticizes the IDF, whether that be charities, governments or even Jews, must be anti-Israel. So a fair source criticizing Israel is a logical impossibility, and the people that do so just invent examples of war crimes and lists of civilian deaths, right?
…resistance is uncomfortable. Māori fought for their rights. Some died for their rights. Over the next few months there will be occupations. Possibly violence. I’m not comfortable with any of that. But the world is a complicated place.
So that’s a “no” then.
Along with tens of thousands of innocent children.
So yes: Israel have clearly killed more innocent children this year than Hezbollah and Houthi and Hamas combined. Hundreds in the West Bank. Hundreds in Lebanon. Tens of thousands in Gaza.
I never said I supported them.
Thats odd. There used to be hundreds of thousands of Palestinians living in northern Gaza, but just a few days ago I quoted the US ambassador to Israel who claimed there were no more than 15,000 people left there. And the IDF have ordered those remaining to leave lest they risk getting killed.
What happened to all of those people? Where did they go? And for those that are still living: do they have homes to return to if they were ever to be allowed back?
Which attacks in particular are you talking about? Can you be specific? Names, dates, hospital?
Attacking hospital without evidence they are being used in “acts harmful to the enemy” are violations of international humanitarian law. They are warcrimes. Targeting the entirety of the healthcare system and systematically taking it down, one by one, is genocidal.
So I’ll take this not only as a resounding NO you don’t condemn the IDF, but also a resounding YES on the siege.
You are making it abundantly clear you support the genocide of the Palestinian people.
Full mask off here folks.
They are happening, and I’ve provided cites that have been scrupulously fact-checked, including from the New York Times, that demonstrate that its happening.
Atrocities occur in all wars, therefore atrocities must have occurred in this one. QED. If you know of a specific incident I should be outraged about then stop holding out on me.
I say “most” because, believe it or not, I have not personally examined the bona fides of every single media source reporting on the war.
If you’re not interested in having a serious discussion on the topic, then I won’t waste your time.
Firstly because conflicts are not all the same. Some are much worse than others in the proportion of force used against combatants versus civilians, and some cross the line into genocide.
All the data is showing that in this conflict, where more tons of explosives have been dropped than London and Dresden times three, and tens of thousands of civilians have been killed in an area the size of Vegas…the IDF is way over on the wrong side of this scale.
And secondly, and more importantly, we condemn atrocities. All these rhetorical attempts at “whatabout what America did in Iraq” – yeah I condemn those actions, including the invasion in the first place. I’m glad that at least some people faced justice and wish it would have been more, and that there had been more reparations. So the implication of hypocrisy doesn’t land at all, and the whatabout boils down to “Please can we talk about anything other than what the IDF is doing?”
Wait, what?
Firstly, there are several being discussed in the last few posts, such as the “evacuation” of northern Gaza and the hospital. But secondly, there is a long list of incidents given by the UN, ICJ and organizations such as human rights watch. Are you seriously suggesting that up to now you are unaware of any crimes?
Well, OK, let’s start with targeted bombings of refugee camps. If such a thing happened would you consider that a war crime?
Yet you seem very confident in suggesting that most are anti-Israel.
As I say, they are anti-Israel by definition; by criticizing any way that this conflict is being executed.
Yes, that moment of sarcasm, in a Pit thread, means you don’t need to engage any more.
And you were so close to admitting that any specific event, in this conflict that has seen tens of thousands of women and children killed constitutes a war crime. Geez, me and my big mouth.
With 45,000 dead total, that seems quite far fetched. So par for the course for your claims.
Yep. So did we Israelis.
More game playing.
If I said “Nick Fuentes is a whole hearted NAZI!” and EvilBear said “There are reasons for that. Resistance is uncomfortable”, we would all agree that EvilBear is clearly a Nazi, even if he later tried to dodge with “I never said I agreed with those reasons!”
Funnily enough, that’s exactly the sort of game Fuentes likes to play with his Nazi beliefs. You remind me of him.
Volume of ordnance used does not prove genocidal intent. The US dropped more bombs on Vietnam than we did in all of WWII - was the Vietnam war a genocide?
Which are also not genocidal acts. The evacuation of northern Gaza is to protect civilians by clearing them out of the areas where fighting is taking place. That hospitals have been used as weapons depots, barracks, and staging areas for attacks is indisputable, unless you’re Banquet_Bear, in which case the rules of tag apply and as long as Hamas is “on base” Israel just has to stand there and let themselves be killed.
The UN has had an anti-Israel bias for decades and is little more at this point than an extension of the Russian government. Ditto the ICJ. Human Rights Watch are radical pacifists who would have agreed with Gandhi that the Jews should have allowed Hitler to kill them all. I do not acknowledge them as unbiased sources.
I never said anything about Iraq. That’s because it wasn’t a justifiable war. I have mentioned WWII and the Civil War, but funny enough nobody wants to talk about the civilian casualties the Allies and the Union inflicted, let alone say that it was an unforgivable atrocity.
That depends, because in Gaza “refugee camp” has a completely different meaning than the common sense one, where fully-developed neighborhoods where families have been living for generations are designated as “camps” because treating the population as permanently homeless and stateless benefits those who want to paint Israel in the worst possible light. In top of that, those “camps” are also frequently used as staging areas by Hamas, just as they use hospitals, schools, and places of worship, because Hamas does not respect the sanctity of civilian lives.
They are anti-Israel because they deny Israel’s right to exist and cheer for its destruction.
Give me your smoking gun, then. Your incident where you can 100% say there is absolutely no legitimate military purpose being served, the source is unimpeachable, the facts are not in dispute, there’s no excuse for this, the only way this makes sense is if Israel is trying to indiscriminately kill as many Arabs as possible incident.
…which is why you’ve provided absolutely ZERO evidence of this in this thread. Neither have Israel or the IDF.
The evidence overwhelmingly supports my position, not yours.
The genocidal acts are documented by the Amnesty International report, the Human Rights Watch report, the UN special committee, and the case bought by South Africa to the International Court of Justice. Citations below.
Unlike you: the benchmark being used here is the UN Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. Specific acts are documented in great detail. There is no shortage of evidence, especially of what is normally the hardest thing to prove: intent. They literally just tweeted it out.
BTW, you still haven’t said whether the Allies were war criminals who should’ve been prosecuted for all those atrocities they committed against civilians in Europe and Asia.
To paraphrase . . . your apparent logic, Atrocities occur in all wars, therefore all wars are atrocities.
Which is, on it’s face, ridiculous.
The fire bombings of Dresden and Tokyo, for example, do not solely define the Allies actions in WWII.
Maybe, someday, you’ll stop thinking that everything can be distilled down to simple blacks and whites.
Indeed! Now we’re getting somewhere. If all war is atrocity, then either all war is immoral or there must be circumstances where suffering atrocity to occur is permissable for bringing about a greater good.
I hold that WWII, the Civil War, and the Israel-Hamas war are examples of the latter.
Sure, I’m sure he meant that there are REASONS to support these terrorist groups, but they’re all BAD reasons and he didn’t actually mean that he agrees with any of those reasons. That’s precisely how normal human beings talk.
I’m so sorry (I’m not) if you find it uncomfortable that I have a problem with someone pontificating about how the Houthis and Hezbollah, two organizations that very explicitly want to see me dead, are examples of resistance.
If I talked that way about the ACT treaty reform bill that’s such a sore spot for Banquet Bear, said that there were reasons to support the reform, and that “justice” or “equality” or some other propaganda line that ACT puts out is “uncomfortable”, he would shit himself whining about how evil and racist I am.
Well, I don’t agree with ACT, but they are about 10,000 times more reasonable than either Hezbollah or the Houthis. Unless they changed their slogan since the last time I checked - is it now “Death to Aotearoa, A Curse Upon the Maori”? Because if so, that’d be pretty bad.
