Because there are people who want to deny that babies were killed at all.
I think you’re wrong to call me that, but it’s light years more mature than making fun of my name.
“Nationalist dumbfuckery” would probably be more apt.
Two different places with two vastly different governments.
Israel has not gone to war with Gaza for the purpose of “bombing babies”. They have gone to war with Gaza in self-defense.
None of them are in any threads here, that I see.
How does vigorously defending an easily-disproven lie about them, to people who don’t deny some babies were killed then, actually help that effort?
Damn, I wasn’t going for mature, but I’ll take it.
It’s only nationalist dumbfuckery when you do it in your own country. Or else the Sudetenland was also just nationalist bumbfuckery. Outside your own country, it’s sparkling colonialism.
One people, one Palestine.
No. They’ve bombed babies anyway.
They’ve killed babies while doing so. Babies they didn’t have to kill for self defense.
Arguing that the baby-killing is part of the self-defense is what makes you crazy, BTW.
It’s not “part of the self-defense”. It’s collateral damage and it’s unfortunate and tragic. Israel isn’t bombing babies on purpose, which sets them apart from Hamas.
Yes, that’d be nice. It’s not going to happen unless Hamas has a change of heart after the ceasefire kicks in.
‘Collateral damage’ (talk about you made-up bullshit) is part of whatever action it’s collateral to. It is inseparable from it.
Yes, it very much is.
“But, Hamas!” again.
It’s not Hamas that separates the two parts of Palestine and the two groups of Palestinians. That’s all on Israel.
Yeah, it’s not fair to blame this one on Hamas. The Palestinian Authority is equally responsible for rejecting every possible two state deal.
One day, the Palestinians will accept the existence of Israel, and agree to a two state solution. When that happens, there will be a Palestine, and Palestine and Israel will be at peace.
Until that happens, we’ll continue to see groups within Gaza and the West Bank launching attacks and getting defeated.
And MrDibble will continue to insist that this is entirely Israel’s fault.
Honest question for MrDibble… If tomorrow Israel declared “OK Palestinians, January 31st is Palestinian Independence Day. All the settlers will be evicted, the PA is in charge until you can have elections. Bye!”
What do you think would happen next?
It’s not the PA or Hamas that allows and even encourages thugs to assault and steal from Palestinian civilians in the WB, but Hamas certainly thanks the Israeli government for doing so.
“But, the settlers!” again? Yawn.
I genuinely don’t understand the thought process that would lead you to dismiss Israel’s very legitimate security concerns as “but Hamas” yet lead you to continue making exactly the same argument about the settlers.
You want the settlers gone? Me too. Take a two state deal and you can do whatever you want to any settlers in the borders you negotiate.
Or refuse to do that, and negotiate from a weaker and weaker position at some point In the future. Generally, the way negotiations work means you get less that way.
The actions of the Israeli government with regards to the settlers and the WB put the lie to any claim that this government has a real desire (much less a plan) for long term peace and security. And without that, it doesn’t matter, in the long term, what they accomplish in Gaza (which, so far, seems to me to be little more than death and destruction, and likely creating more terrorists than they’ve killed or captured). That (among many other things) is why this government has been and continues to be, functionally speaking, allies of Hamas.
Well, everyone sits down for a picnic and lives happily ever after, of course. I mean, since it’s complete fantasyland you’re talking about, why not?
“Honest question”, my arse.
Israel’s legit security concerns aren’t what we dismiss with “But Hamas!”. Israel has very legitimate security concerns (which it could much better address by leaving Palestine alone, a hard border and not doing all the shit it does to non-Hamas Palestians - like the murder, theft, torture, rape)
It’s when you use that cry to excuse their baby-murdering that it gets mocked.
Israel is never going to hand over a single settlement that has live Jews in it. Never going to happen. So Israel is the one that’s going to have to clear the settlements (as opposed to paying financial incentives to settle there)
Well, it’s what you seem to think should happen next, yet you ignore the very real reasons why Israel doesn’t want to do that, and instead substitute in gEnOcIdE and cOlOnIzAtIoN.
I wonder why…
That’s precisely what Israel did in Gaza. Under Sharon, a very right wing prime minister. The IDF you despise so much bulldozed homes that belonged to Jews, while those Jews protested and screamed about how unfair it was.
If you want that to happen in the West Bank, then the Palestinians need to agree to a two state solution first. Hamas demonstrated exactly what happens when Israel unilaterally disengages.
I’m not sure if you’re delusional, or dishonest. We both know exactly what would happen if Israel “left Palestine alone” to freely import whatever arms they’d like from Iran.
I think a lot more has to happen than just Israel wiping its hands of the mess its made.
What, reap what it’s sown? No, pretty well aware of that - I mean, Hamas, amirite?
What, did you think anyone here thinks Palestinians are above revenge?
The Gaza settlements were tiny - 8000 people. The West Bank (including Arab Jerusalem) has more than half a million. Not remotely comparable.
I don’t, actually. I want the Israelis to just leave, none of this scorched earth bullshit like was done in Gaza withdrawal. Consider those nice condos the first down payment of restitution.
“Disengages” but maintains the blockade, airstrikes and Egyptian border corridor. Yeah, real “disengagement” there.
Then attack Iran for it. That’s much more legit than killing the 2 y-o neighbour of some Hamas flunky.
Yeah, only Israel has any agency. The Palestinians aren’t “sowing” anything by attacking Israel and trying to destroy it once a decade.
What were the Moroccans “avenging” when they burned down my grandpa’s business?
Restitution? Go fuck yourself. You don’t declare wars of annihilation, lose, then get the same offer you rejected before you started the war and restitutions. Are you fucking joking?
If Israel wants to send aid of one kind or another because making Palestinians’ standard of living higher has security benefits to Israel, great, I agree with doing that. But restitutions? Fuck right off.
Israel withdrew in 2005 and the blockade didn’t start until years later. It started in response to Gaza’s actions following withdrawal. But you’ve made it clear that you don’t believe Palestinians have any agency of their own.
If you think that no civilians will die in a war with Iran, maybe you really are delusional. But, you are right - it probably does need to happen - Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis, and many other groups will not stop unless the puppet master is stopped.
It would be much better if it came about as a result of internal revolution rather than war, though.
There were plenty before, and all you responded with was “Israel’s cause is just”. And if you’re just going to keep going with the anti-semitism horseshit for calling out the moral failings of you and Israel’s leadership, you really have lost the entire fucking plot. There’s someone else who keeps doing that (Netanyahu), but you definitely claim you don’t support him. Just like Babale hates Ben Gvir and Smotrich, yet parrots their cries about the ceasefire.
Because it didn’t fucking happen. But please, continue to wave the false bloody flag.
Literally nothing. I’m just pointing out how ridiculous YOU are with your claims.
That’s not what was said. Israel has stated this ceasefire is temporary to exchange hostages and prisoners. They fully intend to go back into Gaza eventually to finish off Hamas.
Does it mitigate the enormity of the crime? No. Does it point out how you religiously cling to blatantly false narratives for your dehumanization of Palestinians? Yerp.
Name and shame.
Funny from the poster that’s claimed for a year that Israel has had no choice but to accidentally kill all those kids.
Of course I never claimed that, but I’m not surprised that someone as stupid as you got confused by something so clear. Israel always has a choice: to let Hamas strike into Israel unopposed because they’re willing to do it from behind civilians.
Oh, they certainly are.
Once again, happy to condemn Hamas militants and any other actual Palestinian murderers all the live-long day.
Probably nothing, it was probably an antisemitic attack.
What does that have to do with Palestine?
Yes. That’s what you do after you’re caught stealing.
You first, buddy, you first.
What self-serving bullshit. Israel has restricted access to Gaza since the 90s. Sure, it got worse from 2007, but it was a de facto blockade long before that.
Iran has many, many legitimate military targets, in a way Gaza does not. I’m not suggesting Israel retaliate by bombing Tehran willy-nilly.
I mean, I get the IOF are generally cowards who’d much rather snipe babies and safely bomb tent cities, and Iranians just might put up more of a fight, but the cause is just, right? That’s what your buddy Smapti says, anyway. I believe there’s even a pithy German phrase for it - something about Guts and Mitts? No, that’s not it…
It’s Netanyahu and his allies who insist there are only two choices. But there have always been many, many more than those two. Things are not nearly that simple, and never have been.
Sure thing bud. We’ve been round this carousel before, it goes like this:
OK, so when Hamas attacks Israeli from a civilian area, if Israel should not warn the civilians to evacuate and them bomb the building, what should they do?
Not this! This is wrong!
“Not this” is not a specific course of action. What should they do specifically?
They could send in special forces.
They did that, and a bunch of civilians got killed in the crossfire, and everyone blamed Israel anyways. Ground forces cause just as many or sometimes more casualties than airstrikes.
Well they should just have done it differently and not killed civilians.
How?
And so it continues, ad nauseum.
That’s tactics, not strategy. Israel doesn’t appear to have any strategy beyond the immediate term – destroy Hamas (and, crucially at least until the recent election, keep the fighting going in order to help Trump and hurt Biden). No long term strategy for Gaza; no comprehensive strategy for the whole region; nothing beyond Netanyahu’s short term political goals.