@Smapti, @Babale, and anyone else still supporting Israel and the IDF’s actions in Gaza - how do you feel about the dropped prosecution into the Israeli gang rape of a prisoner on camera? Are you concerned that there could be other, not filmed atrocities that the IDF and Israeli authorities are covering up? What does this incident say about the IDF and Israeli justice system?
For @Alessan, what is the opinion of Israelis on the Sde Teiman gang rape? Has the refusal to prosecute changed your view at all of the IDF?
To me (admittedly from afar), it’s another demonstration that there’s a deep, MAGA-like rot within the IDF, and likely broader Israeli society, and it’s not just a fringe. Some significant portion of the IDF, and perhaps broader society, is willing to rationalize, justify, excuse, and ignore atrocities like gang rape, even if captured on film.
I feel that Hamas must be destroyed.
Do you think Israeli soldiers raping prisoners and the IDF dropping prosecution helps the destruction of Hamas? Do you believe that an IDF that excuses and ignores gang rape on camera might be capable of committing/ignoring other atrocities?
Okay, thanks for responding.
Here it is on record – @Smapti feels that Israeli soldiers’ gang rape of prisoners, and the failure to prosecute such gang rape, is irrelevant (as are other atrocities committed by Israeli soldiers):
What’s “irrelevant” about the question of whether or not Israeli soldiers raping Palestinian prisoners with impunity actually furthers the cause of destroying Hamas?
I think a lot of pro-Israeli war hawks are just using the general idea of “destroying Hamas” as a sort of mental security blanket to cling to, in order to avoid any contemplation of Israeli atrocities. Hamas terrorism is scary, we don’t want Hamas attacking Israelis, and on an emotional level it feels as though torturing and abusing and murdering Palestinians must somehow be taking a toll on Hamas, so let’s just concentrate on the Hamas-negativity instead of thinking about any of those uncomfortable human-rights and war-crimes issues.
But that is not a cognitive approach that is justifiable on the part of intelligent grownups. Do you think that Israeli soldiers raping Palestinian prisoners with impunity is actually accomplishing something toward destroying Hamas? You can’t validly duck that question by claiming it’s not “relevant” to the issue you consider of primary importance here, because it’s specifically about that issue.
I am aware of the history of Zionism, and I chose my words deliberately. World War Two shaped the birth of the nation-state of Israel: I think that’s undeniable. The fact that other factors did, too, is not really germane to my point. I don’t think that much of anything in the century up to 1918 contributed much to the problems we are facing, though of course all of history is always in the mix.
Yes, I get all my reporting from Palestine from al Jazeera.
https://gijn.org/stories/unprecedented-killing-palestinian-journalists-gaza-press-freedom/
https://www.npr.org/2024/03/15/1221513717/gaza-journalists-israel-hamas
Here’s an op ed piece from the wsj that agrees with @Babale: yes, they are all actually terrorists
https://www.wsj.com/opinion/who-is-a-journalist-in-gaza-18a70ad0
Of the 192 putative journalists on the CPJ list, 26 were employed by or freelanced for Al-Aqsa TV, which the committee generously describes as “Hamas-affiliated.” Nineteen were employed by Al-Quds Al-Youm, which the State Department says is “run by Islamic Jihad,” and seven worked for Palestine Today, which the CPJ itself calls “pro-Islamic Jihad.” Six worked for Al Mayadeen or Al-Manar, the former affiliated with and the latter owned by Hezbollah, and another 23 worked for outlets connected to terrorist groups ranging from Hamas and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine to the Houthis.
But that article includes:
“News media, even when used for propaganda purposes, enjoy immunity from attacks, except when they are used for military purposes or to incite war crimes, genocide or acts of violence,” the International Committee for the Red Cross notes.
Something the author poo-poos. But you know, that actually is the international rule. Doctors, medics, and journalists working for the enemy actually aren’t fair targets. Something Israel apparently disagree with.
If it’s not possible to give them a fair trial because there’s no victim to testify and no way to secure an impartial jury, then yes. You would prefer an unfair trial?
Why am I not surprised?
What I disagree with is the idea that if you give a terrorist a TikTok account where he can shit on Israel, this makes him a “jOuRnAlIsT” that should never be targeted.
Random caps always drive the point home.
I’d prefer you don’t repeat baseless propaganda. The idea that an impartial jury is impossible is laughable. That’s fascist bullshit. They didn’t even try. Rapists should be prosecuted, end of story. Right now, you’re a rape apologist.
Just for clarity, are you:
- suggesting that actual terrorists with nothing more than a TikTok account are representing themselves as journalists?
or
- describing reporting whose content you don’t like as “shit[ting] on Israel,” and thereby suggesting that reporting of Israel isn’t real journalism (no true Scotsman would criticize Israel)?
or something else? I get the impression that you’re suggesting that the journalists killed weren’t really journalists because… something, but it would be easier to accept if someone could cite a specific journalist killed by Israel and his / her credentials.
That’s exactly right. Except that they aren’t representing themselves as journalists, rather bad faith bodies in Gaza and the West Bank and highly idiotic NGOs carry water for them out of either stupidity or ideological alignment.
Mind you, I am not saying that every journalist killed in this war falls into this category. But if you want to understand why the war supposedly has a disproportionately large number of dead journalists, just look into what is being called a journalist in this context. Spoiler alert: it’s a radically different standard than you see in a place like Ukraine, where a journalist is someone with press credentials working for a real publication.
…speaking of which, guess who one of the bad faith groups that for reasons of ideological alignment regularly hires terrorists masquerading as “journalists”? That’s right, the Emir’s pet propaganda project, Al Jazeera.
So in return israel with the help of the us is totally justified in destroying the country and, starving, killing, or displacing every single person living there. This is regardless of age, health, or guilt in the original crime.
I really thing there is not one evil thing Israel could do that would convince you of what evil, hateful, genocial, monsters they, and by extension we are. It really makes me question your morals, and ethics. And that makes me sad because I often like your posting.
Nope, Israel is not entirely to destroy Gaza, which is why it has in fact not done so; nor is it entitled to starve, kill or displace every person there - which again is why Israel has done nothing of the sort.
The only people who want to kill, starve, or displace every member of the opposite side are the ‘river to the sea’ fanatics. That is, in fact, exactly what “from the river to the sea” means.
Yes, if Israel did a bunch of things that they haven’t done and never would do, that would make them genocidal. But Israel has done exactly none of these things, so your insistence that they have makes me seriously question your grasp on reality.
Okay. Does anyone have a reputable source, not from Israel or neighbouring states, that can state whether the journalists killed in this conflict are rather more or rather less than in other wars?
I am not usually inclined to agree with Babale, but I’ve seen so much lazy journalism over the last ten years that I am reluctant to accept anyone’s claims without evidence.
I’d like to point out here that hamas is a terrorist organization. Israel is supposed to be a Democratic Nation. I expect terrorists to terrorist. I expect lawful Democratic nations to behave in a civilized matter. Imagine my supprize when israi behaves just as badly as the terrorists if not, at times, worse.
That is rape. There is no question at all.