This is turning into a hijack. Have fun
Despite all of the critical press and response by the 3rd party and indie community, WotC still has the most popular game in Dungeons & Dragons (as measured by GenCon events if not demand), with Pazio’s Pathfinder in second place and Call of Cthulhu as a trailing third.
Stranger
So, the title “The most popular TTRPGs of 2025 will surprise you” is just a clickbait lie? The actual list is just about what anyone who’s at all familiar with the hobby would expect? Why should anyone care what a clickbait liar says?
The top 4 or 5 games in the list aren’t any real shock but there were some surprises for the video maker, although this might reflect preferences of the convention organizers or participants rather than the actual in-use popularity of the games. (I’m surprised of some of the games that didn’t appear in the list and others that did with which I don’t have any familiarity but I don’t claim to have a survey knowledge of the entire industry.) I’m not sure how this qualifies as a “clickbait lie” but I’m sure you’ll expand on the reason fro such prejudicial language
Regardless, the reason I posted the link for the video it is because it illustrates that despite the kerfuffle with the OGL two and a half years ago or the attempt by Hasbro to turn the game into a microsubscription-driven online play game within their particular walled garden, Dungeons & Dragons still maintains the dominant position as a book-based tabletop RPG, which illustrates how far inertia and community appeal can keep a creative product like this going even when the publisher attacks the content creators who support it and seems determined to shoot itself in the foot in pursuit of fanciful revenue enhancing schemes that have little to do with what their customers actually want from them.
Stranger
He says “The most popular TTRPGs of 2025 will surprise you”. In fact, the most popular TTRPGs of 2025 won’t surprise you. How is that anything but a clickbait lie?
Not finding enough going on in the world to feed your need for outrage, eh?
Stranger
I think you’re deeply overestimating what percentage of actual D&D players knows or cares about all of that inside baseball stuff. I know I don’t. I got my books, I got my dice, I got my friends… what more is there to worry about?
I generally agree that most players don’t especially care and, even among those who know about it, most probably feel like “It’s not affecting me or my game so whatever”. Which is a perfectly fair way to feel about it. I’d guess that the player base as a whole might be more in tune than you give them credit for though. I saw stats that 67% of players in the 18-35 bracket play online via virtual tabletops and similar and over 40% actively subscribe to TTRPG online services, Patreons, etc. Those players are more likely to take in this stuff via osmosis while visiting and using online sites. Above 36, the trend shifts to wanting physical books and in-person tabletop play so that demographic is probably increasingly separated from the online drama than younger players.
The above linked video, clickbait title aside, was a little disappointing just to see it measured by GenCon events. I get the supposed reason but question the methodology. GenCon has always had a strong bend towards D&D and, the more heavily invested I am in other games, the less likely I probably am to attend. And, of course, you need to be a certain type of TTRPG player to attend in the first place. Trawling around the internet, I could only find a few guesses at D&D’s share of the TTRPG space and it was around 45-50%+ which actually felt surprisingly low to me. I would have guessed 70%+. Also said that North America is 40-45% of the global market so I’m probably underestimating the impact of the indies in Europe, Call of Cthulhu in Japan, etc. One more reason to question using a convention in Indianapolis as a metric.
I’ll admit to skipping around the video so maybe this was addressed and I missed it. Definitely NOT shocked to learn that D&D remains dominant and actually more surprised to learn it might not be as dominant as I assumed.
I’m 51 and I have 2 weekly groups, one IRL and one using D&D Beyond and Roll20. I noted the controversy when it started a couple of years ago, but I haven’t noticed any real impact on my game, so I filed it away as irrelevant to my life. Besides, I lived through TSR’s bad business practices in the 1990s, and Hasbro’s shenanigans are decidedly mild in comparison.
I also question the video using GenCon events. It is true that GenCon skews towards DND. I would be interested to know what PAX, Origins, or other cons report. The last time I went, I knew people who ran a game there so that they could say their favorite game was still represented. This was back in ‘08.
VTT numbers do show more DND than anything. Hmm. The group that did that, the Orr Report, haven’t reported since 2023 on VTT numbers. The last one I saw was DND had half of all games but I think that was Roll20 specific.
Two years later, this hasn’t affected my gaming. I don’t play DND regularly. I play Level Up, PF2, Shadowrun and I hope to play a few others this year or next. I’m thinking Draw Steel or Daggerheart but I will see if it happens. It did affect the YT channels I watch, where I get my gaming news, although still a lot from ENworld. I found several podcasts I listen to regularly now due to it. (Ghostfire Media, Sly Flourish, Mastering Dungeons) I pay more attention to WotC even though what they do doesn’t affect me or my table.
I think it has also affected me in that I see a lot more indie style games or pay attention to them more. I already knew of PF2, I might have noticed Black Flag by Kobold Press and Level Up by enworld. What I don’t know is how much I would know about Shadowdark, DC20, or other games like that.
I have also lived through TSR’s bad business in the 90s and 4E, although that is another topic. I do like modern games because older simulationist games aren’t for me. I want to do something fun for my and my players. Newer games are doing that more so than older games did. Again, for me. (Something like how Draw Steel and Daggerheart, or other PbtA games, have characters be good at what they claim to be and rolls are to see how well they did something, not if.)
Thanks for the discussion!
It should, since it was founded by Gary Gygax as the “Lake Geneva Wargames Convention” in 1968. Six years later, in 1974 D&D was first published with Gygax and David Arneson as co-creators, and then two years later in 1976 the convention became the property of TSR. In 1997, when TSR was bought by Wizards of the Coast, GenCon was part of that acquisition, and it became a WotC property, then GenCon became a Hasbro property shortly after when that company bought WotC. In 2002, Hasbro sold GenCon to Peter Adkinson, founder of WotC, and it still is owned by Adkinson.
So then, it should be no wonder that it favors D&D, as it had always been associated with the people who create and publish the RPG in some form or another.
Fun fact… Since the very first GenCon in 1968, there is only one game that has always been a scheduled event at the convention, and that is the WWI air combat wargame Fight in the Skies.
D&D itself hasn’t always been at the convention, of course, since the convention predates the game.
But I agree with you, that convention is not a neutral place to take polls. It’s like going to Burger King to find out what everyone’s favorite hamburger is.
Yes! Rolemaster was how I was introduced to roleplaying. Never going back there again.
It’s also why I find the OSR movement tiresome (although that’s equally gamist, but still not fun).
I remember some years ago my group did a Traveler campaign using what I believe was the original edition, or at least one of the earlier ones.
I still rank it as one of the most engaging character creation minigames of all time, but the overall system is an archaic mess that really made us glad for modern convention.
I had Megatraveler back in the 80s. I went through several character creations and did get the character dying on their cadet cruise! I don’t remember if the FASA Star Trek game also allowed for something like that.
I don’t mind simulation being part of the game. I think of those as needed to some extent. I don’t want the save or die saves, though. I didn’t like those. I’m not against character death but I don’t want it on a random encounter.
I’m also not a fan of West Marches style, which, as I understand it, means lots of players and whoever is available plays in that session. I’m telling a story with my players and I try and work their backgrounds and other ideas into it.
Obviously, this is all my opinion and what I want in a game. I do like some modern games where the player gets more control of their character. They can say when their character goes down or if they take a consequence to keep going. My players are also mature enough that they would find that interesting and memorable and would do it.
Thanks for the discussion!
Of course. Consider the source. No one was surprised by that, except maybe some Haters.
There was no such attempt. Vague talk of “monetizing” etc. And WotC wanted to increase play online, but still in person games reamins important- alsways will.
Yep.
Right. OGL was no big deal, and quickly withdrawn and an apology. Did Coke apologize for new Coke?
At one time there were Amazon and B&N sales numbers IIRC. My buddy goes to game cons, and he says D&D dominates the FRPG tables. Again, this is not solid info. Just indications.
That was more of a problem, admittedly.
But to be fair, Click bait titles are endemic.