Do gangsters and thugs etc. commonly take target practice?

Factual Questions
1

I’m thinking of some made member of the Gambinos, mostly doing this or that mob business but ocasionally the Big Boss tells him you gotta take out so-and-so. Or perhaps a member of the Crips, running the drug business but every so often a rival gang moves into gang territory or vice versa and you need to do some shooting. Does a guy like that make sure to regularly take target practice so that when the need arises they can be more effective?

I’ve been told by those familiar with such matters that people who don’t take target practice are virtually useless at shooting (which is one reason having a gun for home defense is overrated). But is it possible that guys like this rely on an overwhelming number of shots and/or shooting from close range?

I’ve read about some celebrated Wild West gunfighters who would take target practice (sometimes in public, with the intention of intimidating potential shootout opponents) but don’t recall this coming up with contemporary gangsters.

2

Years ago, I saw an interview (or think I did–memory tricky at best of times for the best of us!) with a Mafia type who was being guarded by police and said he felt safe because “dese guys” practice all the time and could actually hit a target while “dem mob guys” had to walk right up to the “hit” to be sure of getting him. He seemed pretty confident that the police would pick off any assailant long before he got within his range.

3

I think there’s a lot to unpack from the OP, some of which is probably more suited to IMHO, rather than Factual questions, but the answer tot he direct question is probably ‘no’. Keep in mind, that police officers, who have a job requiring sufficient accuracy to qualify, rarely practice beyond the minimums to do so.

-If- those estimates are correct and represent the mean, 15 hours of practice a year is certainly not going to build amazing accuracy, which is secondary to the numbers below:

Being shot at is STRESSFUL. Your accuracy when the other party is returning fire is going to be, shall we say, subpar.

Gangsters and thugs probably spend less time shooting for accuracy, which is one of the reasons that fully automatic weapons are popular, with the theory that you can spray and pray. Which, from what we see in too numerous drive-by news stories to mention, is false. Sure, you’re putting a lot of people at risk in the area, possibly but not particularly the target.

Briefly regarding the point on self defense - when I got my training, they very firmly pointed out both the physical and the mental aspects of a defensive shooting. If you aren’t physically practiced enough to get a firearm out under stress, remember to remove safety and chamber (depending on firearm), and wait until you had the target properly sited, then you were a danger to others. They said that a minimum of a hour of live fire a month should be expected - and that was leaving out the concerns that whether you’d be able to emotionally handle the situation (not freeze) or make yourself pull the trigger knowing you were going to kill someone (because if you were planning to ‘stop’ or ‘wound’ someone you were again, a danger to self and others).

Considering the emotional aspect above, outside of individuals with greatly reduced affect, this may be a pro rather than a con for drive-bys: you’re shooting up a dirty rat but not making eye contact or having to visual confirm what you’ve done. But that’s firmly IMHO.

Incidentally, I’m sure there are plenty of exceptions to the general rule - thugs or gangers who do take the time to practice - for fun, for accuracy, or just for looking cool. Just that they’re probably the exception, not the rule. Cops train to use firearms in defense of self and others, gangers/thugs train (if they do) to use on people unlikely to resist under threat, or against others of similar untrained background.

4

Gangsters and wannabes have handicapped themselves by using shooting styles they see in the movies (i.e. holding their guns parallel to the ground) which reportedly impairs accuracy. There was even a case in 2009 where a guy opening fire on a police officer in Times Square with an imitation MAC-10 had his gun jam because he was holding it sideways, instead of the vertical position recommended for the weapon.

5

They former mafia guys on youtube say, with out saying, that most hits are done up close and personal. You get setup by people you thought were friends.

No need for target practice to do that.

6

I am under the impression that fully automatic weapons are almost never used in the US for crimes. Is that false? I think it’s a Hollywood trope that criminals use them, but in real life, they are really expensive and hard to get.

7

I would say that one should not look to Hollywood to get any of their information about guns, shooting, cops, gangsters and thugs, who/what/when/where/how often, etc. Unfortunately, people be people, and all.

8

In rural culture, target practice is often a social activity. You get together with a few friends, go out into the countryside, and spend the day shooting bottles and cans. Also, in the Days of Yore, rural kids often grew up hunting rabbits and squirrels for food. Now, a lot of them became well-versed in bad habits, but many of them developed good habits.

I’m not sure where urban kids would be able to practice, that wouldn’t draw the attention of the cops.

9

As a former range officer I can recall various law enforcement people who regularly shot with us. They represented a tiny percentage of law enforcement. They confirmed that many of their fellow officers only practiced enough to make sure they qualify each year. I don’t think we had any thugs competing.

I used to set up “stimulating” scenarios for our competition. I once required competitors to use the gangster hold with the gun held sideways for one stage. Hilarity ensued. I don’t think anyone hit anything. Follow up shots were so poorly controlled because of the odd recoil I had to intervene several times.

As for the use of automatic weapons you are correct. Only a small percentage of criminals use them. The North Hollywood bank robbers come to mind. Unless the statistic has changed there has only been a single murder committed with a legally owned full auto weapon in the US. And that was by a police officer. Any other machine guns used were illegally obtained or modified.

10

There’s at least one shooting range within a couple of miles of my house. Anyone who wants can walk in and take some target practice. I doubt if cops pay attention to who shows up.

11

The assassination of Bugsy Siegel was unusual, done from across the street into the house with a rifle. (This lent to the debunked theory that Siegel was killed by future LAPD chief Parker). But plenty of people had recently received arms training in WWII, including West Coast mobster Johnny Stompanato (although there’s no proof that he did it, either).

12

If you own a gun for home protection, then you should be spending some time at the range regularly. I am usually at the range once a month for a few hours. Most of the people I see there are just average folks that keeping fresh with their shooting, beyond average guys, I do see a number of ex military guys keeping fresh as well. Seldom see what you would consider thugs or gang members.

For hunting rifles, etc. I go to sporting clay ranges and just hunt.

13

I’m not sure how you would identify people as thugs or gang members. I imagine they don’t have name tags or uniforms. And in any event, these people are a very small percentage of the population, so it’s not like they would be a high percentage of people at the range even if they did show up.

14

Sure I’m being prejudiced here, but thugs and gang members have a look.

15

My comment on automatic weapons was predominantly a period reference to the mafioso era wherein full auto Thompson SMGs were used, rather than the more modern period. Since the OP went as far back as the ‘Wild West’, that was my first thought in conjunction with mob business. As for modern gangsters, outside the movies of the 80s where everyone and their cousin had a Mac-10 or Uzi, yeah, they’ve very uncommon, unless modified as mentioned by mixdenny. Which isn’t extremely hard . . . but does require a certain set of skills.

But I was absolutely imprecise with my language, and the aforementioned spray-and-pray tactics still work with semi-auto, just a bit more work on the shooters side. :roll_eyes:

Back to the OP - something brought up in numerous interviews and investigations is that the firearm itself is seen as status as well as a tool. Again - you’re most commonly using it against people who cannot effectively respond, so actual skill is secondary to it’s purpose. Thus a lot of guns with ‘bling’, or weapons that are not cared for/used improperly jamming, or without supplemental ammunition. Heck, while prices are sloooowly dropping from pandemic/insurrection pricing, the cost to do an hours target practice is still around $100 (depending wildly on firearm used and rate of fire). I suspect a ganger has more ‘fun’ stuff to spend it on.

16

I think rounds around me were almost $1 each for a while. Looking at some price history, they peaked at 70 cents, but at the shooting range, they were higher.

17

Maybe this explains why, in movies and TV shows, the bad guys shoot at the good guy dozens of times and miss, while the good guy will hit his target the first time with a pistol 50 yards out. Only the good guy bothered to spend any time taking target practice.

18

As I understand it the main point of messy and high-visibility drive-by shooting is to intimidate and to show a calloused and reckless predilection. A pose to preserve credibility while scaring, injuring, or maybe killing a problematic individual. Also, gang bangers generally lack the foresight to think much beyond the need to flex so they wouldn’t perceive the need for practice. Also also, if it is known you routinely maintain your marksmanship skills and engage a target more precisely, it is more likely you’ll face murder charges, rather than manslaughter or attempted murder.

19

I always thought gun training for home protection should simulate real world home situations. The gun is locked up or otherwise secured, the ammo is stored separately, the lights are very low and you are woken up after a few hours of sleep.

20

Sounds like an idea for a business…