And do I tell my sister I don’t like the way she talks to her daughter?
I was on the phone with my sister last night and my 16 year old niece and her were having an argument that was peppered with some seriously disrespectful shit flying back and forth. Seriously nasty shit from both, directed AT both.
Now I’m not one to cringe and faint away from foul fucking language. We’re not the type of family that censors. But one thing I never did was direct it AT someone. I can bitch about the fucking roast being dry, but I don’t tell someone to go fuck themselves. There’s a huge difference (to me).
I’m going to see them today. Should I say anything to either of them, in private? I don’t feel it’s my place to speak up and act as mediator for a discussion between them, but I’m not sure if I should say anything at all. It’s their relationship.
That’s a tough one. Our situation is different, because the 17 year old niece in question moved in with us at age 15. So now it’s the line between when are WE the parent and when is MOM the parent. We usually let Tiff and Mom deal with things themselves, when it’s between them, but when we have to hear it, or worse yet they take it to facebook (!!!), I sit little missy down and have a heart to heart. It’s really hard to know what to do when they aren’t yours (not like it’s always easy when they are yours though).
I would say that the first question is, how close are you to your sister? In our family, if it was me and my brother/sister, I could get away with talking to them. I’m the oldest so they might brush me off as being the bossy older sister, but they would at least listen to me at first. In my husband’s family (where niece is from), you can’t talk to either of his sisters. Saying anything to either one of them is seen as a personal attack on every mistake they’ve ever made (which are considerable).
Then you have to think about your relationship with the niece. I teach high school, so am around that age all the time. Even if you have a good relationship with her, she’ll probably see it as interfering, and you don’t understand, and blah blah blah. But you might be able to talk to her. You never know with teenagers. Sometimes they want that heart to heart, other times not so much.
I’m not going to get heavily into whether you should or not (tho if you are undecided as to whether you should involve yourself in their relationship in that manner, my gut response would be that the answer is probably ‘no’).
But if you do decide you must say something, make sure that what you end up saying is:
My sister and I aren’t real close, but we’re not a million miles apart, either. I’ve spoken to my niece when she sasses her mom at the table (when she was younger). My sister has raised her alone for 13 years. The kid gets really good grades and is generally a really good kid. She does have a smart-aleck side to her occasionally, and I can see where her mom might be pushed to the brink. I just want to remind my niece how hard her mom has worked and how much she’s sacrificed for that kid.
It’s almost like she’s taken the “freedom to swear” too far. I don’t think either of them realize how hard it is to hear the over-the-top insults. My sister called her on the insult I heard while I was on the phone, and my niece asked me if I agreed with Mom that it was “inappropriate.” I told her in no uncertain terms that it was. Maybe that was enough? I don’t want to bitch her out or anything. I really want her to think before she opens her mouth.
I think that when it flies both ways like that, neither party takes it nearly so personally as most listeners do. My husband has some extended family that, frankly, talk to one another like dogs and fight like cats in a sack. It’s pretty unpleasant for the rest of us when they start in. But you know, it doesn’t seem to bother any of them in the least. It’s just how they interact, and they honestly don’t mean anything damaging by any of it, so none of them takes it to heart.
You may have a point. My sister responded with a very controlled “that’s inappropriate language” rap. She didn’t seem horrified in the least. I’m not sure if that was just so I’d think she’s calm and collected about these things or not. Maybe if I hadn’t been on the phone she would have gone the fuck OFF.
Let me ask you a question. What do you hope to accomplish by talking to your niece? I don’t mean to demean your efforts here, but is she likely to take any of your counseling to heart and change her ways because of it?
I hope that she’ll realize that her mom deserves a degree of respect, even when she doesn’t like the things her mom wants her to do. I want her to understand that even if she has a no-holds-barred relationship with her mom, those types of insults don’t sit well when she does them within earshot of others. I just want her to be a little more considerate.
I agree. And I think for the most part they do respect each other. I think maybe my sister just left the swearing rule a little too vague. Maybe she really doesn’t mind. It would have sank like the Titanic when we were growing up.
But just because it’s normal and harmless for them doesn’t mean you have to sit there and listen to it. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for you (Kalhoun) to say to both of them together in public “you know, I really hate listening to you talk to each other this way. It doesn’t feel respectful to me, and while I don’t mind foul language, I don’t like disrespectful foul language.”
Don’t make an ultimatum out of it, but let them know that you don’t like being an audience for it. But I’d do it to both of them in public rather than approach either in private, on the grounds that private one on one discussion is much more likely to look like interference in their relationship.
Well, I ended up not saying anything. They arrived at the party before I did, and I was told she was pulled aside by her mother, and then her friend mentioned she’s not supposed to be swearing. However, she was being sarcastic to the point where I wanted to just smush a grapefruit in her face. Maybe it’s a phase. I hope.
Luckily, I was able to temper my disappointment with a teenager by hanging out with a 11-month-old Little Dude who was learning about what limes taste like. It was awesome.
He kept making faces that look a little like —>
I don’t think there would be anything wrong in saying this. But it should be done at a time that is distanced from any actual altercation. Just a friendly conversation between family. But don’t be surprised if she doesn’t listen. She is 16 and, by definition, brain damaged.
Does your niece care what you think about her? Does she think you’re the least bit cool? I’d phrase it in a manner that’s less “you need to change and this is why” and more “oh you guys going to the mall? Sounds fun…eh, hmmm. I think I’ll skip it this time, it makes me really uncomfortable when y’all get to yelling at each other like last week on the phone.” This way, the behavior has consequences (deprivation of your fun company) without you advising that someone change their behavior. This can also open a dialogue and probably will. I have better luck if I keep my contributions to stuff I’ve haplessly tried in trying to get along peacefully with assorted parental/authority types, with various and hopefully entertaining results. Your sister is also a ripe source for material - if you can recount a story that casts her as a sympathetic character (not saintly pathetic, more Beverly Cleary sorts of stuff if you know what I mean) - it might cause the kiddo to see her mom as a person next time instead of Mom The Fucking Bitch.
I have watched one of my best friends be rather mean to one of her kids. Verbally insulting to a 7 year old. ( There are mental health issues with the both of them.)
Sitting on the sidelines and watching her say something just so mean is extremely difficult for me to do. After sitting uncomfortably through this scenario o n more than a a handful of occasions, my rule has become if it happens in my house or my car, then I intervene.
My friend respects that decision and the altercations between her and her son have backed off when they are around me.
