I don’t know if you’ve heard of this, but there’s a thing called “gay”. It means, among other things, that some men aren’t interested in boobies or female crotches.
This may be shocking, but it is a fact that not every single 22-year-old male is interested in women. Believe me, I should know.
So gynecologists are either gay or into it for the girl bits? I assume the better answer is that they’re interested in the subject for some reason and sexual attraction doesn’t come into it.
What do you imagine the motivations are for a woman gynecologist? Answer that question and you probably have a motivation for male gynecologists too.
I used to have a girlfriend who had completed her MD studies. I came across a huge book of photographs of genital diseases on her shelf. It must have weighed 15 pounds in my memory. In modern parlance, it was ginormous - pun intended.
No one is going to be mistaking any of that for porn or other arousing material let me tell you.
That being said, this issue was covered in my own undergrad years in either sociology or more likely social psychology courses. As others have said, it is just business, and is a profound ethical transgression, doctors and nurses are trained to avoid it and to manage it should it occur.
Similarly for mental health practitioners who are prone, due to the nature of their work, to be attracted to their clients and vice versa.
Don’t put words in my mouth. What I said was:
This was a direct response to this assertion:
Assuming that everyone is heterosexual is a kind of homophobia, and a particularly marginalizing one. I responded to this assumption by reminding dre2xl that there must be other reasons, because it’s probably true that there are gay male OB/GYNs out there. And gay female OB/GYNs, for that matter, whose presence doesn’t seem to bother dre2xl at all.
That’s what I would assume, yes. I can’t imagine that looking at diseased vaginae all day would be a pleasant thing for most men (ETA: or most women, for that matter), no matter their sexual orientation, so one would figure they’d have to have some kind of special interest in the field.
Hostile Dialect,
Hostile Dialect, Narcissist
I didn’t mean to.
By suggesting that there are of course 22 year old males who aren’t interested in women, it read as though you were giving the idea credence that sexually active hetero male OB/GYNs are in it for the girly bits.
In fact, I am not and have never been bothered by lesbian ob/gyns–they suffer the same problems as all women. Don’t go looking for homophobia where there isn’t any. Thanks.
Why are you not bothered by lesbian OB/GYNs but are by male ones.
They suffer the same problems, and, also, I do not fear women in the same way I fear men. It’s not because of horny lesbians that I don’t venture into bars by myself at night.
That I suggest male doctors might be motivated to become OB/GYNs because the work involves close interaction with sexual characterstics implies that I am referring to heterosexual male OB/GYNs, which in all likelihood compromise the vast majority of male OB/GYNs. It was a generalization. Any insult in my question was towards male heterosexuals, with the implication that the only reason they could possibly do the work that they do was for sexual purposes.
This suggests to me that it’s men in general that you have a problem with. Most likely any legitimate reason a man might have to be a gynecologist wouldn’t satisfy you.
Actually, I’m pretty sure there are female gynecologists for which a significant part of their reason for becoming gynecologists is because they are women, and feel that it’s important to have gynos who better understand their female patients. (Of course, significant part doesn’t mean only part)
One of my aquaintances (a guy, late twenties when he finished his studies) went into the field because it was underpopulated and the government / healthcare system was offering high pay, good hours and potential bonuses for signing long-term contracts. It’s not an oversaturated field - sure, some deves might try, but taking medical classes for five years before being allowed practice might be a tad too dedicated for most.
Given that it is quite embedded and accepted within society that it is quite natural and acceptable for heterosexual men to give into their desires in certain circumstances without consent in regards to females (as can be evidenced that cases of rape can often be turned into talk of what the victim was wearing and where the victim was), I maintain that (at least in our society), it is not a big leap of logic to worry about the motivations of men that are in great likelihood heterosexual who examine sexual bits for a living while naked and behind closed doors. Can’t think of many situations where you’re more vulnerable. IOW, I feel that it is a defensive reaction, not proactive sexism. Any further comments on any perceived homophobia and sexism on my part – feel free to take it to the Pit.
Regarding the particular issue of male gynecologists, I’ve now been sufficiently convinced that the work that gynecologists do is more of a deterrent to “devvies” than not.
Most male ob/gyns I know (I’ve heard this isn’t universal, but it’s standard protocol with the ones I know) would always have a female assistant in the room to be a witness that nothing inappropriate happened when doing pelvic exams or such. I don’t think any of them would be surprised or offended if a patient requested a female be present during the exam if for some reason you needed to see a male ob/gyn.
OB/Gyn is actually a pretty interesting field in some ways. Many doctors enjoy that it combines elements of both the immediate rewarding feeling of surgically correcting problems as well as the long-term relationships you can get in primary care specialties.
Some doctors prefer to see relatively healthy, uncomplicated patients like most general ob/gyn patients (this is not referring to the sub-specialties of gyn where you’d deal with cancer patients, infertility, high-risk pregnancies, etc.).
When I was a med student on ob/gyn, it was kind of nice that most obstetrics patients didn’t have any significant medical history or medication lists, so writing up their histories was a breeze compared to being on internal medicine where almost every patient was something like a 70 year diabetic smoker with heart disease and emphysema being managed on 20 different medications every day.
The routine office check-ups for pregnant ladies were usually fun because they were excited about their babies and wanted to see the ultrasound pics and all that. Some doctors would just rather be around happy patients than the really sick patients who are often (understandably) grumpy or depressed about their state.
So, yeah, there are good reasons why someone who wasn’t a pervert would enjoy ob/gyn. I might have gone into it myself except that I pictured myself getting tired of dealing with all the vaginal bleeding, STD infections, and even normal childbirth. Even if you enjoy delivering babies, the hours that you have to work on obstetrics are horrible because of how unpredictable labor and delivery can be.
If you’re a pervert, you’re really better off getting a 9-5 job and then going home to surf porn online than working the hours an ob/gyn works to get to see bloody or diseased vaginas or vaginas that other people are squeezing out of. 
I can picture a woman being pleased with how well her gynecologist handled her pap smear, and hence being inspired to pursue the field herself (or contrariwise, being horrified at how poorly it was done, and wanting to do better), but I can’t picture that same motivation for a man going into gynecology. So yes, there are at least some legitimate motivations for female OB-GYNs that wouldn’t apply to males, along with some illegitimate motivations which would be relevant for most males but not for most females. Put that together, and I don’t think it’s at all illogical for a woman to wonder about male gynecologists.
I didn’t mean to. I was specifically addressing one particular part of the argument which bothered me in an immediate and alarming way.
I think it’s interesting that this argument hasn’t dealt at all with straight women/gay men in medical school studying urology, though.
Believe me, I didn’t open this thread expecting to find homophobia, or looking for it. Assuming that everyone is heterosexual is, in fact, a form of homophobia.
I don’t mean to imply that you are “homophobic” in the sense that you are a bad person or a bigot or something; everyone is (at least) a little bit homophobic, just like everyone is (at least) a little bit racist. I know that I’m both a homophobe and a racist, which, as you can imagine, causes problems as I’m both queer and Ashkenazi. But I also take it upon myself to point out and counter homophobia and racism in myself and others.
You said you couldn’t imagine a 22 year old male going into obstetrics and gynecology for any reason other than to ogle women all day, and I made an effort to point out that any gay male, at least, who goes into obstetrics and gynecology must have another reason. I will admit that I was probably excessively snarky, and I apologize if that was the case.
Ah–you seem to think I was accusing you of trying to insult male homosexuals. No, that wasn’t my intent, although with the way the word “homophobia” is usually used, I can see why you would think that.
Allow me to clarify:
It was quite obvious all along that you only intended to impugn male heterosexual obstetricians/gynecologists. The problem comes in implying that all male ob/gyns are heterosexual, which is absurd on its face. Unfortunately (for the patient), you have no way to know, just from a doctor’s maleness, whether or not that doctor has any interest in your sexual organs. I feel that, when you use a broad brush like that, you’re unfairly maligning gay male ob/gyns, from whom you’d have nothing to fear regardless. I’m thinking of it like this:
“You’re male and an ob/gyn? You must be doing it just to ogle women.”
“But I’m gay!”
Except that, due to the palpable social stigma and discrimination against LGBT people, especially male homosexuals, the doctor may not be out. So that doctor is being accused of doing something that he himself would find horrifying on many different levels, and has no defense against it.
That’s what I’m saying–when you assume that everyone is heterosexual (and that’s what you did when you said that you couldn’t see any other reason for any young male to go into ob/gyn), you can hurt the people who aren’t by hitting them with the same broad brush you’re using to paint others.
The whole thing is also unfair to heterosexual male ob/gyns, who can’t get jiggy with their patients any more than psychologists can get down with theirs. And from the responses of most of the medical professionals here, I’m guessing that ob/gyn work has a way of turning one off of female sexual organs, not the other way around. Can you imagine being a straight man and seeing diseased pussy all day? What that would do to your sex drive? Not much in the long run, it seems, but I doubt that would get the guy fired up in the moment. There must be some other motivation, one would figure.
So I would go so far as to state the exact opposite of your assertion: I can’t see how any ob/gyn (regardless of sex, gender, sexual orientation, etc.) could go into the field to ogle female parts. There are better, easier, faster and cheaper ways to that end, like porn photography.
That said:
I, for one, certainly understand how that would give you chills. And I think you’re perfectly within your rights to refuse to see male ob/gyns, because, as you say, the potential for abuse is there, and it’s not pretty if it does happen. Of course, you could theoretically be abused by a female ob/gyn just as easily, and I can’t see that being a pleasant experience. You’re right, though, that society is far too accepting of male-on-female rape and that our society in particular teaches us that women can be “asking for it”. And…
I’m sure that I speak for others in this thread when I say that I am impressed by your open-mindedness and your willingness to reconsider your position.
Hostile Dialect,
Hostile Dialect, Narcissist
I think this says more about you than anything else.
Again, I think you need to look at yourself because I find your thoughts weird. Really weird. Weird in a disturbing way.
I am a heteresexual male and sex is more about mood than anything else. Mood is created by a number of things and seeing an abstract vagina in isolation does not in any way create sexy mood. A pretty face, a smile, flirting, etc do. There is nothing more sexy than the facial expression. Do you want to hide your face from every guy because they might imagine you giving a blow job?
I have been side by side with a gynecologist looking into my girlfriend’s vagina. Do you really think I was thinking of sex? It is about as sexy as looking at her wisdom teeth or the sole of her foot. The frame of mind is what counts and it is not about sex but about finding out what the problem was.
A woman who thinks any specific part of her is only about sex has a seriously distorted view IMHO. Can you really imagine that if my girlfriend says she has a lump in her breast and can I feel it and see what I think I am going to have sex on my mind? If you do then you are seriously messed up. I have looked into the vaginas of my girlfriends just to see if there was anything abnormal and, believe me, it is NOT sexually arousing because that is not the mood. A woman who is flirting and in the right mood is arousing even if fully covered, even at the other end of a phone line. A woman can be entirely naked and not be arousing.
Equating nudity with sex is seriously disturbing. What should be covered? Should we go with burkas just to be safe?
I think there is something very weird and disturbing about individuals or societies which equate nudity or body parts with sex.
It is like thinking everybody would think of stealing if they saw money or an object they liked. Do you think a person who works in a bank and counts money is somehow dreaming about that money being theirs? Do you think restaurant chefs eat all the time?
Hostile Dialect, thank you for your response. Though there are certain parts of your response I do not necessarily agree with, arguing with them is way outside of the scope of this thread, but I am also impressed with your willingness to clarify your positions and argue your point in an excellent manner, and respect your views. In deference to your opinions, and those who have a hard time struggling in a heterosexually-dominated society, I will try to be more conscious of gender language.
For sailor or anyone who still has concerns about my reasoning behind being concerned with male ob/gyns, I will be glad to address them in a pit thread.
Not a clue but my first OBGYN was a very nice gay man, and he treated me very professionally, and also with great compassion. I had a woman OBGYN that treated my like one miscellaneous part of a herd of cattle. It is rather nice to exchange greetings, get asked if I had any issues specifically in addition to the general pokings and proddings … not basically told to spread … poke prod qtip see the receptionist on the way out for your script and well call if there is anything unusual in your pap …
FWIW I’ve chaperoned doctors doing pelvics in the ER on occasion, never against a patients will of course, but it’s not like it’s a law that there has to be a woman present. I’ve also been complimented for doing a better job of putting the pt at ease than some female nurses. Nobody assumes that a female is intrinsically better at tending to any other part of a pts needs. It always annoys me when someone assumes that a crappy nurse is gonna get all magical when you put her in the room with a baby or a vagina.