Since Jews believe in one Gd, which christianiaty claims to be rooted from…how is it that christians claim 3 forms of Gd in one? Messianic Jews proclaim that Jesus is the messiah, do they believe there is a plural Gd too or do they differ in who jesus is from the christian jesus?
Messianic Jews are Christians in all aspects of their theology, so of course they believe in the Trinity:
The only sense in which Messianic Jews differ from other Christians is that they observe some traditions and rituals of Judaism (and that they are usually ethnically Jewish). Messianic Jews are Christians, not Jews, in any standard religious sense.
I understand what you are saying, but what I don’t understand is how the Torah talks about the messiah, and the christian messiah differ. There was no new testament for the apostles to quote from, if Gd was triune or 3 deities, why does the Torah teach Him as singular and christian plural? Since Jesus was jewish, his desciples jewish, then they qouted torah, how is it that christians study letters written by followers of which 2 were actual apostles and (Peter/John) and claim it scripture? I guess what I am asking is did the apostles see Jesus as a messiah who had the authority to speak on Gds behalf like Moses did on Gds behalf (which no one claims moses to be messiah) and not as gd incarnate, but as the prophetic savior who is word made flesh? Did Gd intend for man to worship Jesus as gd and the holy spirit as gd? Or manifistations to point man to Himself? How come christian claim Jesus is seated at the right hand of gd, is the holy spirit on the left? I see Gd as one, when He spoke two things happened-audible (word) and breath(power) through them things were made. Word became flesh, then came the power(spirit) all of whom show us the way, and love of Gd. I am just very confused about all of this and every religion has their own answer. I just want a straight up answer from torah followers on the messiah and who He is.
Standard Jewish thought is that the messiah is just a guy. He’s not divine, he’s more along the lines of Abraham or Noah or Elijah, a human being who carries out divine will. So according to regular Jewish thought, even if Jesus was the messiah he wouldn’t be divine. But they don’t think he could be the messiah because Jesus didn’t begin the messianic age, the lion did not lie down with the lamb, and so on. So they believe that Jesus was both a human being and not the messiah.
“Messianic Jew” is just a term for a jewish convert to a particular sect of Christianity. They don’t believe Jesus was the messiah in the Jewish sense, they believe he was divine. That makes them christians.
In other words, all those things that Christians talk about Jesus eventually doing at the Second Coming, the Jewish Messiah is supposed to get done the first time around.
Actually, the Torah never talks about a messiah. All the messianic verses in Judaism and the overwhelming number of messianic verses to which the Christians point occur in the Prophets (with, for Christians, a few among the Psalms and other Writings). (Those are the three sections of Jewish Scripture: Torah, Law; Nevi’im, Prophets; and Kethuvim, Writings, sometimes called Tanakh from the initial sounds of each section’s name.)
Basically, by the first century, following fights with the Greeks, internecine warfare among the Hasmonaeans, and finally the Roman subjection, many Jews became interested in messianic theology. Jesus was hardly the only one whose followers called the messiah.
As Christianity got going. Paul made a big deal about Jesus as messiah. Later, the author of Matthew made a point to dig up all sorts of references in the Hebrew Scriptures and use them to asociate with Jesus, (greatly expanding the number of verses that Christians use to indicate the messiah).
A separate phenomenon was the association of Jesus with the divine. It is not directly tied to the messiah idea, but has been part of Christianity for so long that the two are now inextricably linked. The early church had to reconcile the Jewish idea of only one God with the growing belief that Jesus was God, yet not the Father, and that he was to send still another presence in the form of his Spirit to guide his followers. This resulted in the concept of the Trinity in which One God was manifest in three persons. None of this makes any sense in Jewish theology and the passages from the Jewish Scripture to which Christians point to support their beliefs are understood very differently by Jews.
To look at a Jewish view of the messiah, check out these passages as identified on the indicated web site from the electronic Jewish Encyclopedia:
Future ideal king:
Isaiah 9: 1 - 6
Isaiah 11: 1 - 10
Isaiah 32: 1 - 5
(The Immanuel passage of Isaiah 7: 14, alluded to by Matthew (1: 23) is not considered Messianic in Judaism.)
Further:
Micah 5: 1, 3 - 8
Jeremiah 23: 5 - 6 and 32: 15 - 16
Jeremiah 30: 9
Hosea 3: 5
Ezekiel 17: 23
Ezekiel 34: 23 ff
Ezekiel 37: 24 ff
Haggai 2: 23
Zechariah 3: 8
Zechariah 6: 12
Zechariah 9: 9 - 10
(In Deutero-Isaiah, the Jewish people, not an individual messiah, will be the source of the salvation of humanity. So, Isaiah 42: 1 - 6, 49: 1 - 6, 50: 4 - 9, 52: 13-53: 12 are not messianic in the sense of a person of the messiah. Although they do refer to the “servant of God” who will convert the nations to the service of God, the “servant of God” in Jewish theology is the Jewish people, and these passages not considered messianic.)
wow thanks for the info, will do my studies on it now that I have somewhere to start.
I totally agree with you, and so do Christian Jews! I wrote a blog on this subject called “Let Me Tell You Who God Is” and then I found Ahavat Yeshua’s website and we are in full agreement. Perhaps this will confirm your faith: http://hubpages.com/_ui1xcnn62gpk/hub/Let-Me-Tell-You-WHO-GOD-IS God bless you!!
I thought that only Catholics believed in the Trinity?
Based on what I’ve seen over on Christian Forums, people who identify as Messianic Jews (not “Jews for Jesus” specifically) belong to several different groups. What unites them is a belief that Jesus is the Messiah. Some are effectively Christian, adhering to the Christian concept of Messiahship and the doctrines of the Trinity and Atonement, the Hypostatic Union, and all the other theological baggage associated with it. Others consider him the Messiah sensu Judiaca, as outlined in brief by Lemur, and see a unitary deity, with Jesus as His messenger.
At the risk of making it my night to disagree with you, Melon, you thought wrong. Belief in the Trinity is, with the Atonement, one of the two most widespread doctrines in Christianity. They/we can and do disagree on almost everything else, but that’s pretty solid. Only Jehovah’s Witnesses, Unitarians, and Oneness Pentecostals reject it. (Mormons have a very divergent ‘take’ on the subject, and I’ll leave their beliefs alone, with simply a note that they don’t believe in the same conception of the Trinity that virtually everyone else is united on.)
Wow. I was so staggered with disbelief that I had to go look it up for myself. Needless to say, you’re right. This seems like a major part of Christianity to be mistaken about and I don’t know why I thought that it was a Catholic teaching. Do Catholics put much more of an emphasis on the Trinity than other Christians? That’s the only explanation that I can think of.
Many off-shoots of the Catholic church (i.e. Protestant denominations) do not understand that God is one Lord. The word “trinity” has caused some to “think” of God as three sitting side by side. Mormons, a religion all their own, not based in Catholicism (of course) have gone so far as to say all three persons of the Godhead have separate bodies of flesh and bone. The believe Lucifer and Jesus are sons of God born in heaven ~ and they believe all Mormons were first born in heaven before being born on earth, etc. etc. etc. (heresy, in my humble opinion). On the opposite end of the scale, other religions such as Universalists believe in the Father God, but that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are not equal with Him and are not God. The hub link I provided in my comment above to wonderbug (dated 5/4/10) will give some clarity to the Lord God’s identity. Blessings 
Since this thread was old, and was revived mainly for the purpose of witnessing, I have closed it.
Judah’s Daughter, the General Questions forum is for posting factual information. If you want to discuss your faith, the correct place to do so is Great Debates.
Colibri
General Questions Moderator